Chauvin verdict at 4:30....

Bocephus said:
Agree on the numerous charges but the link also says “Although the offenses can be charged together, the accused cannot be found guilty of both offenses because they are both parts of the same crime (the lesser offense is part of the greater offense).” Still trying to figure out the guilty on all charges, unless they are saying the charges are for different aspects of the whole affair
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Here is what my brother had to say about the charges (used to be a lawyer):

Okay, here’s what I can come up with so far. Chauvin was convicted of three crimes - 2nd degree murder, 3rd degree murder, and manslaughter. 2d degree and third degree murder are different crimes, so one is not a lesser included offense. The 2nd degree charge requires the commission of an independent felony, and 3rd degree requires the death to be caused by reckless disregard for the victim’s safety. I still can’t quite figure out how manslaughter is not a lesser included offense to 3rd degree murder, but the 3rd degree murder law in Minn is currently being challenged and could be found unconstitutional. Maybe the judge allowed both charges on an alternative theory - if the 3rd degree murder law fails, then they can sentence him for manslaughter. Will let you know if I come up with more
 

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www.revisor.mn.gov

609.19 MURDER Next IN THE SECOND DEGREE.​


Subdivision 1.Intentional Previous murder Next ; drive-by shootings.​


Whoever does either of the following is guilty of Previous murder Next in the second degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 40 years:

(1) causes the death of a human being with intent to effect the death of that person or another, but without premeditation; or

(2) causes the death of a human being while committing or attempting to commit a drive-by shooting in violation of section 609.66, subdivision 1e, under circumstances other than those described in section 609.185, paragraph (a), clause (3).

§

Subd. 2.Unintentional murders.​


Whoever does either of the following is guilty of unintentional Previous murder in the second degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 40 years:

(1) causes the death of a human being, without intent to effect the death of any person, while committing or attempting to commit a felony offense other than criminal sexual conduct in the first or second degree with force or violence or a drive-by shooting; or

(2) causes the death of a human being without intent to effect the death of any person, while intentionally inflicting or attempting to inflict bodily harm upon the victim, when the perpetrator is restrained under an order for protection and the victim is a person designated to receive protection under the order. As used in this clause, "order for protection" includes an order for protection issued under chapter 518B; a harassment restraining order issued under section 609.748; a court order setting conditions of pretrial release or conditions of a criminal sentence or juvenile court disposition; a restraining order issued in a marriage dissolution action; and any order issued by a court of another state or of the United States that is similar to any of these orders.

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www.revisor.mn.gov

609.195 MURDER Next IN THE THIRD DEGREE.​


(a) Whoever, without intent to effect the death of any person, causes the death of another by perpetrating an act eminently dangerous to others and evincing a depraved mind, without regard for human life, is guilty of Previous murder Next in the third degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 25 years.

(b) Whoever, without intent to cause death, proximately causes the death of a human being by, directly or indirectly, unlawfully selling, giving away, bartering, delivering, exchanging, distributing, or administering a controlled substance classified in Schedule I or II, is guilty of Previous murder in the third degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than 25 years or to payment of a fine of not more than $40,000, or both.

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www.revisor.mn.gov

609.205 MANSLAUGHTER Next IN THE SECOND DEGREE.​


A person who causes the death of another by any of the following means is guilty of Previous manslaughter in the second degree and may be sentenced to imprisonment for not more than ten years or to payment of a fine of not more than $20,000, or both:

(1) by the person's culpable negligence whereby the person creates an unreasonable risk, and consciously takes chances of causing death or great bodily harm to another; or

(2) by shooting another with a firearm or other dangerous weapon as a result of negligently believing the other to be a deer or other animal; or

(3) by setting a spring gun, pit fall, deadfall, snare, or other like dangerous weapon or device; or

(4) by negligently or intentionally permitting any animal, known by the person to have vicious propensities or to have caused great or substantial bodily harm in the past, to run uncontrolled off the owner's premises, or negligently failing to keep it properly confined; or

(5) by committing or attempting to commit a violation of section 609.378 (neglect or endangerment of a child), and murder in the first, second, or third degree is not committed thereby.

If proven by a preponderance of the evidence, it shall be an affirmative defense to criminal liability under clause (4) that the victim provoked the animal to cause the victim's death.
 
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wvsig said:
What I am amazed at is how many people in this thread seem to be so disappointed that there was no violence in Minn and other large cities last night after the verdict. People still expected looting and violence to erupt even after Chauvin was convicted on all counts.
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Patience. It was cold there last night. The leaders of these movements will find ways to get the mob doing their bidding. You don’t really believe Chauvin in jail will be enough to satisfy the blood lust do you. The good ole USA kind of has a French Revolution feel to it right now. Those kind of things are not easy to stop once they are going. And having so-called leaders prime the pump isn’t helpful.
 
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This is kinda off topic but Chauvin's wife filed for divorce in May of 2020. A settlement filed the following January awarded his ex-wife most of the profits from their TWO houses, as well as $704,000 in cash. Derrick was left with $420,000 in the reported deal. So my question is, how much does being a Minneapolis police officer pay???

nypost.com

Who is Derek Chauvin’s beauty queen ex-wife Kellie and where is she now?

Derek Chauvin’s beauty queen ex-wife filed for divorce from the convicted ex-cop days after George Floyd died in his custody. Kellie May Xiong Chauvin, who was crowned Mrs. Minnesota in 2019,…
nypost.com nypost.com
 
Railsplitter said:
This is kinda off topic but Chauvin's wife filed for divorce in May of 2020. A settlement filed the following January awarded his ex-wife most of the profits from their TWO houses, as well as $704,000 in cash. Derrick was left with $420,000 in the reported deal. So my question is, how much does being a Minneapolis police officer pay???

nypost.com

Who is Derek Chauvin’s beauty queen ex-wife Kellie and where is she now?

Derek Chauvin’s beauty queen ex-wife filed for divorce from the convicted ex-cop days after George Floyd died in his custody. Kellie May Xiong Chauvin, who was crowned Mrs. Minnesota in 2019,…
nypost.com nypost.com
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Sounds like he was trying to protect as much of the money as possible which is understandable. As for the amount of asssets.....who knows.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
 
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The appeal is going to be interesting, and he stands a very good chance of getting off without any accountability what so ever, this issue is just getting kicked down the road for a while.

The cops actions vs facts vs charges probably will not stand under scrutiny of the law because the entire trial was never about justice, it was about a white cop “killing” a black man, the excuses being thrown around about “oh the system been stacked against blacks for so long, so this being against this white guy is totally fine” positively proves that fact, you don’t want justice, you want revenge, for some crackhead you’ve never met because he’s the same color as you are, yeah, not a good look for a large part of those seeking “justice”, they’re no better than the people who allowed all those innocent black men to go to prison because the system was stacked against them.

Also a knee on the shoulder or neck doesn’t cause a heart attack, the stress of being high and passing counterfeit money to a business, being arrested and then being combative with the cops which causes them to pull your drug infused ass out of an air conditioned cop car and laying you face down on the ground in cuffs with a knee in the neck for 10 minutes instead of going to jail, probably lead to a heart attack, how it looked or how you feel should mean absolutely nothing for anyone seeking justice, Floyd’s actions and the cops inaction lead to Floyd’s death, take race out of the equation and ask yourself, would both of them being the same race make you come to the same conclusion? If not, you’re part of the problem.
 
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I don't see how the cops are anyway responsible for a combative, drugged up criminal having his inevitable heart attack. Especially after all the coddling and reassurance, letting him out of the car, talking him down from his drug fueled derangement. The lynch mob got its way. The most disturbing aspect, aside from railroading a white cop, is the lynch mob includes ideologically driven elements up and down the social order, the legal system, media, prominent politicians. It's disgraceful and foreboding. Sadly, the appeals court may be too timid to reverse the verdicts.
 
Relapse said:
If "deadly intent and a depraved mind" were required to convict, the jury ignored that standard.
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You generally don't have to enter the situation with that thought. He does not have to get out of his patrol car intending to kill Floyd. He does not have to begin the interaction intending to kill Floyd. But at some point in that restraint he made a decision to continue a restraint technique that was not authorized and to hold that restraint beyond any reasonable time frame and through prodding from fellow officers to stop. He also did not maintain any semblance of interest in Floyds vitals, level of consciousness, or physical well being.

I had an old school CJ professor. His explanation was that at the point you decided to take an action that killed someone that split second is cause for malice aforethought. Not a popular opinion these days. But intent can happen within the altercation, not just before it. And his actions seem to lean towards a depraved mind or someone acting with no thought to consequence or safety.

Then again, as I've said repeatedly, I have professional experience and training in restraint techniques. And he did almost everything wrong IMO.
 
chiefjason said:
You generally don't have to enter the situation with that thought. He does not have to get out of his patrol car intending to kill Floyd. He does not have to begin the interaction intending to kill Floyd. But at some point in that restraint he made a decision to continue a restraint technique that was not authorized and to hold that restraint beyond any reasonable time frame and through prodding from fellow officers to stop. He also did not maintain any semblance of interest in Floyds vitals, level of consciousness, or physical well being.

I had an old school CJ professor. His explanation was that at the point you decided to take an action that killed someone that split second is cause for malice aforethought. Not a popular opinion these days. But intent can happen within the altercation, not just before it. And his actions seem to lean towards a depraved mind or someone acting with no thought to consequence or safety.

Then again, as I've said repeatedly, I have professional experience and training in restraint techniques. And he did almost everything wrong IMO.
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I don’t disagree he did everything wrong, I don’t disagree his actions and/inaction played a part in Floyd’s death, it’s always been my understanding that in situations like this that the charges are to be based on the actions of both parties IE Floyd’s actions caused himself to be in that situation which lead to being arrested, then became combative and ultimately restrained, then factoring in the cops actions, based on that manslaughter or wreckless endangerment seem more appropriate (it’s been many years since I knew any laws, so I’m sure there are many charges better suited)

Chauvin absolutely showed zero concern for a humans well being while in his custody, the humans race makes zero difference to me, because it shouldn’t matter to anyone what race the human is, and he did not take steps to ensure his suspect remained safe, but in my opinion he did not “kill” him, but he did not do everything in his power to prevent Floyd from dying while under his control, for that he IS accountable, he did not even attempt to save the mans life in a situation he was in control of, deliberate indifference is coming to mind, but I don’t know if that’s enough of a charge for a crime that plays a part in the loss of human life.
 
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"We dont need your effing money."

Oh good, and here I was worried about reparations. I hope Cruz or someone uses this clip in that debate.
 
Chief, what did he do wrong with an approved restraint straight out of the Minneapolis training manual? It's been a long time since I watched all the videos, but it looked like they were very compassionate with him up until he started fighting and going crazy. Was there even a chance of saving Floyd's life outside an operating room? Chauvin's cool expression seems callous, or preoccupied with the angry mob. That convicted him more than anything. Seriously, what do you contend he should have done differently?
 
*If he appeals and these convictions are overturned, then he and every rioter out there can thank these mouth-breathing politicians for muddying the waters.
 
concepthomes2 said:
*If he appeals and these convictions are overturned, then he and every rioter out there can thank these mouth-breathing politicians for muddying the waters.
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Ah, but they won't. There will just be more peaceful protests (riots/looting) and discussions (confrontations at restaurants, etc).
 
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Relapse said:
Chief, what did he do wrong with an approved restraint straight out of the Minneapolis training manual? It's been a long time since I watched all the videos, but it looked like they were very compassionate with him up until he started fighting and going crazy. Was there even a chance of saving Floyd's life outside an operating room? Chauvin's cool expression seems callous, or preoccupied with the angry mob. That convicted him more than anything. Seriously, what do you contend he should have done differently?
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Approved restraints done wrong, held too long, or with too much force can kill people. It's exactly why, after 6 years of training in single and team physical restraints, we started moving to non physical group restraints. Because even with training kids were still dying and getting hurt.

It's part optics and part action. Both revolve around him not using the minimum force necessary to restrain the subject. He used more force, for too long, with zero apparent thought to the consequences. As soon as the subject starts to comply, you back off. Can't get much more compliant than unconscious and/or dead but that didn't slow Chauvin down did it?

You don't know if Floyd dies without the restraint either. Keep that in mind.
 
Too bad it's a political crucifixion, not an impartial trial over reasonable charges. I'm not so sure that we don't know he was already a dead man walking. Horrible health issues. Three, almost four times the lethal dose? Habitual users don't develop tolerance to those levels. "I ate too many drugs," he said himself. He was screaming he couldn't breathe long before they put him down, which is what he asked for while trying to get out of the car! There was no asphixia, no evidence of suffocation or strangulation; so the hold itself did not do anything except, perhaps, add to his hysterical panic at dying from cardio pulmonary arrest. I agree Chauvin should have let off, and maybe pretended to care.
 
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