Church shooting in TX will disappear from news
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Look at the video lot of "good guys" acted recklessly and put more people at risk. One good guy with enough training ended this. The majority of those armed and who drew did not. To me it is a wake up call. Which one will you be? The guy who took the head shot or the women directing people out of the pew with her gun?
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Well I run the soundboard in my church. I sit in the back behind a fairly large desk type structure in the back and have a pretty good view of the sanctuary. I carry a compact 9mm most of the time but I have been known to have a full sized pistol depending. They are either of the 1911 or Glock family which are the two platforms I am very familiar with and feel most comfortable running. There have been times, higher alert holidays and current events times, when I have even taken in an AR pistol in a discreet bag. Call me paranoid but I’d rather have it if that 1 in a billion event strikes. Looking at a shotgun vs compact 9mm ... that’s nearing the “knife to a gunfight” thing and if a shooter pops up with semiauto type rifle I know I’m S.O.L.! Your paranoid is my prepared.
Dale Gribble
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Yes, some of them did act recklessly and swept a whole buncha people, putting them at risk. I’m fairly sure this video will be viewed and analyzed multiple times. I’d imagine the points you brought up will be addressed with the security team/congregation.
That aside, no one was harmed and the numbers did, in fact, favor the good guys.
One good guy with training did personally end this, but I do not believe that should detract from the actions of the first two fellows that were shot. There’s a part of me that believes the miscreant’s focus on those two guys up front played a role in Wilson being able to do what he did, in addition to the skills he possessed.
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I don't disagree with any of that but if you listen to Mr. Jack Wilson own words they knew this guy was a problem the moment he walked into the church. It is 100% hindsight but as soon as he stood up armed men should have been moving him out. If they had stepped to him with authority and purpose Mr. Jack Wilson would have had a better chance to put him down without other loss of life.
Dale Gribble
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Agreed
Losing two "good guys" is not an acceptable trade to stop a broken person who should have been removed from society long ago.
Bingo on the TRAINING! I saw maybe 3 to 4 people who I’d now trust on my team with their actions. Mr Wilson I the head of that church’s security team and I honestly think he needs to do an AAR and evaluate who responded and how. In an interview he said the team had eyes on the shooter from when he first entered the building ... the greeters and such alerted as to appearance but the shooter made no threatening moves until that fateful 6 seconds.
I’ve watched the shooting and response quite a few times and sad as it may be ... aside from someone sitting directly behind a “person of interest” on the ready 6 seconds is about the best case scenario I could see. When a person reacts to a shooter you’re already behind the curve. Wilson was given a 2 to 3 seconds to react from the 1st team member (the man shot first) to react ... and that gave him time to “catch up” with his draw and firing. The first shot (at the 1st team member) was 2 to 3 seconds from the shooter pulling the shotgun with the second shot (at the usher) was about 2 seconds later then Wilson gets a clear shot ... a person or two in the pew jumped up and Wilson held fire ... then about 2 seconds later he drill the SOB pretty much DRT. Honestly I can see this going way worse ... yes 2 parishioners lost their lives but it could have gone way worse real easy.
I know my team will be discussing this event to modify our approach to strangers in the church and how we act from the time they enter to how many careless actions occurred with firearms ... from sweeping people to sticking a handgun under your arm to call 911 on cellphone. Any church with a security team needs to address the flaws here while stressing the fact TRAINING as a team as well as an individual increases the chance of minimizing the losses ... Wilson’s training saved lives but how many others can at at his level? What if he had been targeted first? Was there another person who could engage a shot with skill enough to end it? Kinda a twist on the old Jeff Cooper adage having a handgun doesn't make you armed any more than owning a guitar makes you a musician you gotta know what to do and have the mindset to do it ... Wilson did ... do you ... do others on your team?
Indeed it is. In the long run, we need to keep the focus on removing dangerous people from society rather than limiting the damage they cause..
Those were the sentiments of the day in that one congregation of my childhood. Thou shalt not kill! Remember that one? Times have changed. Obviously and sadly. It's a sick world and I'm paranoid myself, with random violence hitting close to home. Having helicopters overhead and K 9 units with shotguns in your backyard will do that. I don't mourn the creep at all and appreciate the man who killed him so quickly. But I do find it ludicrous for so many people to be waving guns around in church and not have the common sense to spot and shoot him on the steps before coming in to kill your friends. I would never attend such a church either, though, historically speaking, this is the one I was raised in.
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Do you recall what God told the Israelites to do to the inhabitants of Canaan? (not so long after he gave the Ten Commandments to Moses).
That’s right. Kill every one of them. All of them. Not sure what denomination you were in, but there was plenty of bloodletting in the Old Testament at the explicit instructions of God Almighty, and as quoted above, Jesus instructed his disciples to procure a sword if they didn’t already have one.
Unless I am completely misreading things, the article Amp posted suggests otherwise.
You are reading the article correctly, however I'm stating that article is most likely incorrect based on the video evidence. Sadly, it is not uncommon to have incorrect info in news articles within the first 48 hours of an event.
Below is a screen shot from the video right as Mr. Wilson's bullet is connecting with the shooter. I have added a red arrow to the only other person in frame that has a weapon in hand, and that individual has just started to draw his weapon. No other shots were fired after this point in time in the video.
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The Bible is full of contradictions. People have justified killing each other, as well as non-christians, based on scripture since before He died. Ours was a turn the other cheek kind of church back then. It and the Baptist Church next door are taken over by Mexican Holy Rollers now, for what that's worth. That head shot came way too late in my opinion, if it could not have been avoided in the first place. It should have been avoided if that many people were truly prepared for violence. BTW, was that intentional or a miss of center mass? Might as well get gorey since we're celebrating.
I did not see a second shooter either. I thought perhaps someone off screen had taken a shot that did not show up on the video. The media certainly do get things wrong way too often.
I think you are seeing more than is actually there. Churches don’t search visitors. Nothing says “Welcome to the Lords house” by going full TSA on them at the door.
As discussed up stream, you can’t shoot someone until they are an actual threat. Just having a shotgun is reason to go on point, but until it’s actually brought into play you cant shoot people.
Could more have been done? Possibly. But we are seeing this as a brief moment in time. Not in the real life narrative that was taking place in each of the people in attendance lives.
Also, no one here is celebrating anything. Are we glad the bad guy was stopped? Yes. Are we glad there were armed people in attendance? Yes. But no one here is cheering anything. We all literally watched a man take a shotgun blast to the chest and die. This isn’t a celebration. It is a further wake up call to always be prepared.
But we all recognize that “being prepared” doesn’t mean you become immune.
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agreed. Problem is, our idiot leaders have wasted decades of time, money and legislation trying to take away guns instead of allocating funding for psychological research to address the root problem.
violence is the common denominator in crime, not guns. Our medical and correctional ability to address the problem is essentially non-existent. Had we been study extreme violence since columbine instead of voluntarily blinding ourself with AWBs, we would probably have some actionable results by now.
You might consider that the bad guy may not have been there to shoot anyone. Maybe he was, maybe he wanted to rob folks like Jessie James, thinking he would fleece the sheep, but when the guy started to draw a weapon he was out of options except but to shoot.
@Cpippen That isn't making excuses either. If all he did was rob people they would have been justified to shoot him then too.
@Cpippen That isn't making excuses either. If all he did was rob people they would have been justified to shoot him then too.
On the surface, you’ll be better off asking, “what am I missing here?” And consider context, intended audience, culture, original language, etc.
What the farfenfnuegen... who’s celebrating?!?
How is it paranoid that I’m carrying, whilst sitting in a crowd with family and friends that are sitting ducks unless a few consider potential evil?
Murder is evil, self defense is not.
The Lord claims vengeance is His, self defense and protecting the innocent is a righteous action.
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Removing dangerous people from society is grand idea that can lead to some pretty terrible things if we try to remove them before they commit an evil act to prove they are dangerous. I would prefer to limit the damage an evil person causes by removing him/her from society after he/she actually does an evil deed. I get angry whenever I see maggot being arrested who already has a list of felony convictions. Why is this person allowed to be in our society if he has already proven that he can not accept the responsibilities of living in our society?
Most of us on the board would be considered by many to be dangerous because we are armed or at least had firearms until we had that horrible boating accident.
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And it is, but there are times when He is willing to subcontract it out.
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I like the Old Testament character of the Blood Avenger as well.
With the NT and history’s best form of government, he’s right out in the US.
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And of course, Ecclesiastes 3, which says things like "a time to kill" and "a time of war"
And in Nehemiah where they talk about how armed guards were stationed to prevent enemies from getting through the wall during rebuilding, and how everybody had to carry weapons for safety.
A lot of people who know nothing about the bible insist its a manual for how to be a pacifist. I only know a little about it, but it's clear that it isn't.
He could have. If he had thought it out. But do you think he was the kind of person who burdened with an overabundance of intelligence?
My church wasn't inclusive. You had to be known to attend & I believe everyone was armed. We weren't inclusive as we weren't out for money. And this is an open forum dickbreath.
My coworker has a team at his church, they rotate each week, Deputy in charge of the teams.
They have glass doors at the entrance, if you are wearing a long coat and are not known,
they will ask you to open your coat or you do not gain entry.
They have glass doors at the entrance, if you are wearing a long coat and are not known,
they will ask you to open your coat or you do not gain entry.
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I considered this as well. He didn't shoot the first guy he as talking to immediately. And the second guy being slow on the draw might have made him think he had the advantage and he was going to get shot anyway. Then after the first shot, he was beyond the point of no return. BUT, when he turns the gun on the parishioners with what appeared to be intent to shoot, that tells me it was not a botched robbery, but an act of intentional violence. At least, that's my view.
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Indeed.
I watched that video a bunch last night. The shooter swung that SG nearly 180 degrees from the rear of the church to the front of the church, like the pastor was next, before taking the sheepdog’s shot to the head.
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You don't tell me how to wash feet. And if I want to suck on them and then dry them with my hair, well that's just following the bible's lead... but you don't get to tell me which hair either.
Was that an intentional Firefly reference?
This is new to me, what kind of exclusive church was it?
Scripture teaches to be welcoming to strangers, especially the down and out, not for the purpose of money grubbing.
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Christian Identity. The organised religion I'm familiar with only grows by preying on weak-minded folks & separating them from their money. Mostly deal in that new testament nonsense.
Not intentional but I am the product of my environment.
I haven't seen any mention of the shooters ability to reload?? Did he have any other rounds on him other than IN the gun?? Going to a "mass" shooting with 6 rounds isn't too glamorous....
Obviously from the first shot he wasn't acquainted with his gun as the forearm literally jumps out of his hand before the second shot.
Obviously from the first shot he wasn't acquainted with his gun as the forearm literally jumps out of his hand before the second shot.
The Wiki description makes it appear that’s either prison groups Nazi or KKK.
If so that’s no church.