Cleaning Solvent Alternative

rdinatal

rdinatal

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I'm running on the last bit of a Hoppes 1gal bottle I bought more than 25 years ago. After looking I'm in shock as to the replacement price. So I'm looking for powder solvent/cleaner alternatives.

I would like to find an economical alternative in either household or automobile chemicals.

What do you use?
 
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I havent bought anything in a while...got a couple qts of hoppes and generic clp sitting around...so I got curious about the prices you mentioned and went to Hoppes site.
This makes no sense to me: 1 gal jug is $132. Click on the quart option and they are $21. Buy four of those and come out $48 under a gallon jug?
Always thought buying bulk was generally supposed to be cheaper, but whatevs...
 
draco88 said:
I havent bought anything in a while...got a couple qts of hoppes and generic clp sitting around...so I got curious about the prices you mentioned and went to Hoppes site.
This makes no sense to me: 1 gal jug is $132. Click on the quart option and they are $21. Buy four of those and come out $48 under a gallon jug?
Always thought buying bulk was generally supposed to be cheaper, but whatevs...
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I noticed that too. Gallon is $99 at Midway but quarts are $17 on Amazon. Clearly it’s a silly pricing structure from Hoppes if multiple vendors have similar pricing.

Hoppe's No. 9 Gun Bore Cleaning Solvent, 1-Quart Bottle https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B00109AAN2/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_glt_i_478JAZG73FR8AM3QBGKW
 
I’d spend the $ on the Hoppes in the quarts. It’s a proven cleaner and hard to beat.

Disposal of used Ed’s Red can be a problem. Because of the acetone reacting with the lead from the bore, it’s pretty toxic stuff.
 
Scsmith42 said:
Because of the acetone reacting with the lead from the bore, it’s pretty toxic stuff.
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More on this? I did a quick DDG search, but all I found were ultra-dense chemistry pdf's or irrelevant nonsense.

Specifically, what does acetone do to make the residue more nasty than simple lead suspended or dissolved in a volatile (thus quickly evaporating) solvent?
 
Windini said:
More on this? I did a quick DDG search, but all I found were ultra-dense chemistry pdf's or irrelevant nonsense.

Specifically, what does acetone do to make the residue more nasty than simple lead suspended or dissolved in a volatile (thus quickly evaporating) solvent?
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The acetone in Ed’s Red reacts with the lead from the bore, resulting in lead acetate, which is highly poisonous.
 
Scsmith42 said:
The acetone in Ed’s Red reacts with the lead from the bore, resulting in lead acetate, which is highly poisonous.
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Well, gee... when ya put it that way, it does seem pretty obvious. 🤪
 
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I always go with the old tried-and-true No.9. Recently I saw some of the newer Hoppes Elite foaming bore cleaner on sale somewhere and picked it up to give it a try. Smelled faintly of ammonia, which wasn’t too upsetting, but it left a sticky residue after I let it soak for a few minutes.
 
Scsmith42 said:
The acetone in Ed’s Red reacts with the lead from the bore, resulting in lead acetate, which is highly poisonous.
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You sure? Lead acetate is formed in the reaction of lead, acetic acid, and hydrogen peroxide (Ie “the dip” for suppressor people).

I don’t believe that elemental lead is soluble in acetone, or in any organic solvent.

I understand that Ed’s removes lead by creeping under it and making mechanical removal easier. I also recall that the acetone is in the mix really to deal with plastic in shotgun barrels and that lots of folks leave it out when using it for other purposes.

I’ve never looked at any of the bore cleaning solvents, do any of us know what chemicals are produced in the cleaning process. Call me chicken, but I wear nitrile gloves

Lead acetate is more than a little dangerous, absorbs through the skin. There are also antimony compounds formed, but I don‘t know if they are absorbed.
 
JimB said:
You sure? Lead acetate is formed in the reaction of lead, acetic acid, and hydrogen peroxide (Ie “the dip” for suppressor people).

I don’t believe that elemental lead is soluble in acetone, or in any organic solvent.

I understand that Ed’s removes lead by creeping under it and making mechanical removal easier. I also recall that the acetone is in the mix really to deal with plastic in shotgun barrels and that lots of folks leave it out when using it for other purposes.

I’ve never looked at any of the bore cleaning solvents, do any of us know what chemicals are produced in the cleaning process. Call me chicken, but I wear nitrile gloves

Lead acetate is more than a little dangerous, absorbs through the skin. There are also antimony compounds formed, but I don‘t know if they are absorbed.
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As I recall, Shawn Conver (@TSConver) mentioned a few years back that Ed's Red because Toxic after use due to the lead acetate residue, and that it was highly toxic. Shawn is a Phd Chemist so I'm deferring to his expertise. This may have been in a thread on the old forum.

I recall that the nature of the post grabbed my attention, and I stopped fooling around with Ed's Red after that.

Hopefully Shawn can chime in - I defer to his expertise. I might be misquoting him.... I've slept since then!
 
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JimB said:
You sure? Lead acetate is formed in the reaction of lead, acetic acid, and hydrogen peroxide (Ie “the dip” for suppressor people).

I don’t believe that elemental lead is soluble in acetone, or in any organic solvent.

I understand that Ed’s removes lead by creeping under it and making mechanical removal easier. I also recall that the acetone is in the mix really to deal with plastic in shotgun barrels and that lots of folks leave it out when using it for other purposes.

I’ve never looked at any of the bore cleaning solvents, do any of us know what chemicals are produced in the cleaning process. Call me chicken, but I wear nitrile gloves

Lead acetate is more than a little dangerous, absorbs through the skin. There are also antimony compounds formed, but I don‘t know if they are absorbed.
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yes, I have never heard of simply mixing lead with acetone as a synthesis of lead acetate, intended or otherwise. While acetone is GREAT for dissolving just about any substances from metal itself, I don't think whoever came up with this stayed awake in his high school chemistry class ;)

We used acetone to clean a variety of metal items in my 3rd year inorganic chem / lab classes, including a number of battery rigs with lead terminals. Nobody said diddly. We did not even have to do those under the hood.

In Jim's statement, you will notice that you use acetic ACID to remove the lead ions from the lead source. Those ions form a bond yielding lead acetATE (the ATE suffix tells you it is a "salt" or an ionic bond between a positive and negative ion from two primary substances, yielding a new one). A salt cannnot be formed without something "pulling off" an ion from lead, any more than you can form table salt (sodium chloride) simply by bringing sodium and chlorine into proximity (if you live long enough to test the results :) .
 
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Scsmith42 said:
The acetone in Ed’s Red reacts with the lead from the bore, resulting in lead acetate, which is highly poisonous.
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lead acetate is produced by “the dip” (ie peroxyacetic acid, made by peroxide + vinegar mix). acetone + elemental lead doesn’t make lead acetate. with respect to “Ed’s Red” I haven’t a clue what this product is but the acetone does nothing except evaporate.

for general firearms cleaning I’ve found nothing that comes even close to ballistol. The only downside is price if you’re using a ton of it, but it’s 1000x safer than old crap like Hoppes so probably worth the expense.
 
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I thought the fumes from just acetone alone were bad juju? No?

And, Hoppes user here.
 
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I've been using Boretech Eliminator with good results. After a good scrubbing and a few wet patches followed by a dry patch then run a wet patch through the bore and let it sit (barrel angled down a bit) overnight. Seems to work quite well except I don't have a borescope...yet! :)
 
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92G said:
lead acetate is produced by “the dip” (ie peroxyacetic acid, made by peroxide + vinegar mix). acetone + elemental lead doesn’t make lead acetate. with respect to “Ed’s Red” I haven’t a clue what this product is but the acetone does nothing except evaporate.

for general firearms cleaning I’ve found nothing that comes even close to ballistol. The only downside is price if you’re using a ton of it, but it’s 1000x safer than old crap like Hoppes so probably worth the expense.
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Thanks for the clarification.
 
A quart of Hoppes lasts me a long time, so I've not done too much experimenting with other cleaners.

I've never used Ed's Red either, but I've known of some guys to mix ATF and diesel fuel together to use as a cleaner.

Mobil 1 makes a good gun oil, and a quart will last ages.

If you remember all the Froglube hype from a few years ago, you can get that stuff cheap. Its coconut oil. The froglube people dye it green, and raise the price 10x. Buy it at the grocery store. Dye it green if you want.
 
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RedneckFur said:
A quart of Hoppes lasts me a long time, so I've not done too much experimenting with other cleaners.

I've never used Ed's Red either, but I've known of some guys to mix ATF and diesel fuel together to use as a cleaner.

Mobil 1 makes a good gun oil, and a quart will last ages.

If you remember all the Froglube hype from a few years ago, you can get that stuff cheap. Its coconut oil. The froglube people dye it green, and raise the price 10x. Buy it at the grocery store. Dye it green if you want.
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Gotta add the mint smell!

It didn’t handle heat well for me, gets real thin real fast.
 
I will add that about 30 years ago,, I was cleaning my guns in my gun room when my better half (with whom I'd just recently gotten with,) came in & commented; "What's that smell?" Well, expecting a bit of admonishment, I replied; "Hoppe's gun cleaner." To which she replied; "Why not clean them in the living room, that stuff smells good!"
I could use it as cologne.
NOW,, she later on would clean guns if I'd do the disassembly & re-assembly.

However,, in lieu of the good old original Hoppe's,,, I'd suggest Ballistol.
 
92G said:
acetone is one of the safest volatile cleaning agents out there. It’s nail polish remover, not that I’d EVER use it for THAT reason 🤪
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It seems dangerous until you get into MEK or Toluene. Good ventilation is best with all of them. I swear I’m going to install an exhaust hood in the shop for cleaning and casting.
 
Been using Ed's Red for 20+ yrs and my 3rd eyeball is still healthy.

I'm cautious about The Dip though.
 
Lucas gun cleaner:

  • Acetone: 30 – 60% (CAS 67-64-1)
  • Heptane: 10 – 30% (CAS 142-82-5)
  • Toluene: 10 – 30% (CAS 108-88-3)
  • Carbon dioxide: 5 – 10% (CAS 124-38-9)
  • Methanol: 1 – 5% (CAS 67-56-1)
 
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I got a gallon of Shooters Choice from the Duke Power surplus outlet years ago.
My grandkids will find it in the shed when I'm gone and have plenty available for their use.
 
I
Clean real dirty parts with brake cleaner then lube with M-pro 7, which is the best lube I have found so far.
 
92G said:
for general firearms cleaning I’ve found nothing that comes even close to ballistol. The only downside is price if you’re using a ton of it, but it’s 1000x safer than old crap like Hoppes so probably worth the expense.
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Could you elaborate on what is unsafe about Hoppes?
Im a bit curious since Ive got a quart on top of my safe as I type this...
 
According tot he MSDS , not much.

11. Toxicological information
Information on toxicological effects
Toxicological effects Not regarded as a health hazard under current legislation.
Acute toxicity - oral
Notes (oral LD₅₀) Based on available data the classification criteria are not met.
Acute toxicity - dermal
Notes (dermal LD₅₀) Based on available data the classification criteria are not met.
Acute toxicity - inhalation
Notes (inhalation LC₅₀) Based on available data the classification criteria are not met.
ATE inhalation (vapours mg/l) 103.77
Skin corrosion/irritation
Animal data Based on available data the classification criteria are not met.
Serious eye damage/irritation
Serious eye damage/irritation Based on available data the classification criteria are not met
Revision date: 2/8/2019 Revision: 2 Supersedes date: 4/23/2018
Hoppes 9 Synthetic Blend Gun Oil 1003G
Respiratory sensitization
Respiratory sensitization Based on available data the classification criteria are not met.
Skin sensitization
Skin sensitization Based on available data the classification criteria are not met.
Germ cell mutagenicity
Genotoxicity - in vitro Based on available data the classification criteria are not met.
Carcinogenicity
Carcinogenicity Based on available data the classification criteria are not met.
IARC carcinogenicity None of the ingredients are listed or exempt.
Reproductive toxicity
Reproductive toxicity - fertility Based on available data the classification criteria are not met.
Reproductive toxicity -
development
Based on available data the classification criteria are not met.
Specific target organ toxicity - single exposure
STOT - single exposure Not classified as a specific target organ toxicant after a single exposure.
Specific target organ toxicity - repeated exposure
STOT - repeated exposure Not classified as a specific target organ toxicant after repeated exposure
Aspiration hazard Based on available data the classification criteria are not met.
General information No specific health hazards known. The severity of the symptoms described will vary
dependent on the concentration and the length of exposure.
Inhalation Prolonged inhalation of high concentrations may damage respiratory system.
Ingestion Gastrointestinal symptoms, including upset stomach. Fumes from the stomach contents may
be inhaled, resulting in the same symptoms as inhalation.
Skin Contact Prolonged contact may cause dryness of the skin.
Eye contact May cause temporary eye irritation.
Route of entry Ingestion Inhalation Skin and/or eye contact
Target Organs No specific target organs known
 
And there's the newer synthetic formulation of Hoppe's too.
 
fieldgrade said:
I thought the fumes from just acetone alone were bad juju? No?
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Well... you don't wanna huff them. If you work with acetone, don't do it near flames (and DO NOT SMOKE!!!!) and work in a well ventilated area, like outside or in a garage. My recommendation, anyway.
 
JohnFreeman said:
According tot he MSDS , not much.

11. Toxicological information
Information on toxicological effects
Toxicological effects Not regarded as a health hazard under current legislation.
Acute toxicity - oral
Notes (oral LD₅₀) Based on available data the classification criteria are not met.
Acute toxicity - dermal
Notes (dermal LD₅₀) Based on available data the classification criteria are not met.
Acute toxicity - inhalation
Notes (inhalation LC₅₀) Based on available data the classification criteria are not met.
ATE inhalation (vapours mg/l) 103.77
Skin corrosion/irritation
Animal data Based on available data the classification criteria are not met.
Serious eye damage/irritation
Serious eye damage/irritation Based on available data the classification criteria are not met
Revision date: 2/8/2019 Revision: 2 Supersedes date: 4/23/2018
Hoppes 9 Synthetic Blend Gun Oil 1003G
Respiratory sensitization
Respiratory sensitization Based on available data the classification criteria are not met.
Skin sensitization
Skin sensitization Based on available data the classification criteria are not met.
Germ cell mutagenicity
Genotoxicity - in vitro Based on available data the classification criteria are not met.
Carcinogenicity
Carcinogenicity Based on available data the classification criteria are not met.
IARC carcinogenicity None of the ingredients are listed or exempt.
Reproductive toxicity
Reproductive toxicity - fertility Based on available data the classification criteria are not met.
Reproductive toxicity -
development
Based on available data the classification criteria are not met.
Specific target organ toxicity - single exposure
STOT - single exposure Not classified as a specific target organ toxicant after a single exposure.
Specific target organ toxicity - repeated exposure
STOT - repeated exposure Not classified as a specific target organ toxicant after repeated exposure
Aspiration hazard Based on available data the classification criteria are not met.
General information No specific health hazards known. The severity of the symptoms described will vary
dependent on the concentration and the length of exposure.
Inhalation Prolonged inhalation of high concentrations may damage respiratory system.
Ingestion Gastrointestinal symptoms, including upset stomach. Fumes from the stomach contents may
be inhaled, resulting in the same symptoms as inhalation.
Skin Contact Prolonged contact may cause dryness of the skin.
Eye contact May cause temporary eye irritation.
Route of entry Ingestion Inhalation Skin and/or eye contact
Target Organs No specific target organs known
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In common talk, the above says you don't have any tests which reveal that ANY doses at ANY tested levels are lethal or toxic or carcinogenic or a danger to genetic material. I still would not take a bath in the stuff, or pour it on as skin lotion or something, but it really does not have any tested verifiable danger levels.

That said, I do not trust much of any tox tests I had several toxicologists who worked for me back when I did environmental engineering. Let's be gracious just say that the LD levels were "art and not science" in many cases
 
tanstaafl72555 said:
Well... you don't wanna huff them. If you work with acetone, don't do it near flames (and DO NOT SMOKE!!!!) and work in a well ventilated area, like outside or in a garage. My recommendation, anyway.
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I did a little reading, and it looks like the EPA took it off their “bad” list in the mid 90’s. The last can I bought was in the mid 80’s and warnings on the back of the can were perilous. It all finally evaporated out of the screw top metal can maybe 10 years ago. Anyway, that’s why I was spooked by it.
 
tanstaafl72555 said:
That said, I do not trust much of any tox tests I had several toxicologists who worked for me back when I did environmental engineering. Let's be gracious just say that the LD levels were "art and not science" in many cases
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Agree with you. Having been a testing lab manager, I know the art of meeting a spec.

I trust the results, but I know for example, that something with a UL logo on it just means it passes a test, not that it's necessarily safe.
 
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