Denied sale of a palmetto AK

Its not a rifle. Its not a pistol. Its an Other. Barrel length makes no difference. It doesn't have a buttstock so its not a rifle. No matter how much anyone thinks its a rifle it has to transfer just like a pistol does even though its not a pistol. No sales from an FFL to out of state buyer. Absolutely no private sale interstate.
 
Your story reminds me of an instance at Blackstone shooting sports. When I lived in Charlotte, I bought a PSA AR-10 lower and had it shipped there. It was a complete lower (and a complete hunk of junk. Would not let any mag seat in it because the hole for the mag catch was a few thousandths too high lol it was milled wrong) anyway....When I went to pay for it the guy asked to see my pistol purchase permit or CC license.

I told him that it was a rifle lower and therefore not subject to the pistol regulations of that time. He told me because I could put a short upper on it and make it a pistol that he needed to see a PPP or CCP....which I then reminded him that would be making an SBR, not a pistol and that SBR's are still rifles and not pistols. Never mind the fact that it was marked as a long gun on the 4473 lol. He insisted and started to get fussy with me and boxed it back up to deny me the transfer, luckily his manager heard us, walked over and said "Nah, he's right" talking about me and let me leave the store with my lower.

Over the years it has become horrendously apparent to me that the average gunstore employee knows dismally little about gun laws or even guns in general compared to even your average forum lurker. Also, Ive never been back to Blackstone nor will I ever pay another 50 dollar transfer fee. The guys local to me charge me 15 bucks for a transfer and one of the best gunsmith's Ive ever met works there too.
 
Chuck Sharts said:
Anyone else have a similar experience?
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Yes.

And I promptly took my business elsewhere and even saved some money doing so.

A Virginia BassPro had a sale a few years back, when prices had finally dropped back down into the "normal" range on AR-15 platforms after that huge spike. S&W M&P-15 for a decent price, so I called to see if they still had them in stock, then went out to pick one up.

Got there, had the boxed rifle on the counter ready to go amongst a huge Christmas crowd. Guy took my ID as I was filling out the paper work...and refused to sell the rifle to me "because I was from SC and it was illegal for them to sell me the rifle".

I just took my ID back, stuck it in my wallet where all that money was that I was going to spend there in addition to that rifle, and left.

I immediately called a Walmart that I had bought a rifle from previously and postulated that scenario. "Nope, no problem with selling you a rifle."

I called a local gun shop and asked the same thing. No problem either. The guy asked me if I'd share the sale price of the rifle I was looking at...then laughed and said they had the exact same rifle there and their normal price was $20 lower than BasPro's sale price!

So I bought the rifle from them as soon as I could drive there.

I did call and talk to the BassPro store manager. He was going to forward me to his manager who oversaw the gun department and I told him not to bother because what I wanted to talk to him about was how THAT GUY cost the store HE was a manager of some business. I related the story to him, explained to him how the laws worked, told him I would expect someone who worked in firearms sales to actually UNDERSTAND those laws. I also told him I wasn't going to argue with stupidity, especially in front of other customers. He could do whatever he felt like doing about this but he lost my planned $1,000-plus business that day and I'd be sure to relate this bad experience with everybody else I knew who might ever consider doing business there.

Then I hung up, took my new rifle and opticcs over to a buddy's house, and we went shooting.
 
Solidsnack. said:
Your story reminds me of an instance at Blackstone shooting sports. When I lived in Charlotte, I bought a PSA AR-10 lower and had it shipped there. It was a complete lower (and a complete hunk of junk. Would not let any mag seat in it because the hole for the mag catch was a few thousandths too high lol it was milled wrong) anyway....When I went to pay for it the guy asked to see my pistol purchase permit or CC license.

I told him that it was a rifle lower and therefore not subject to the pistol regulations of that time. He told me because I could put a short upper on it and make it a pistol that he needed to see a PPP or CCP....which I then reminded him that would be making an SBR, not a pistol and that SBR's are still rifles and not pistols. Never mind the fact that it was marked as a long gun on the 4473 lol. He insisted and started to get fussy with me and boxed it back up to deny me the transfer, luckily his manager heard us, walked over and said "Nah, he's right" talking about me and let me leave the store with my lower.

Over the years it has become horrendously apparent to me that the average gunstore employee knows dismally little about gun laws or even guns in general compared to even your average forum lurker. Also, Ive never been back to Blackstone nor will I ever pay another 50 dollar transfer fee. The guys local to me charge me 15 bucks for a transfer and one of the best gunsmith's Ive ever met works there too.
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He was right . Receivers , even complete lowers , transfer out as “other” but follow all the pistol rules. They cannot be sold to out of state residents. Rifles have barrels AND buttstocks. Both. A complete lower is never a rifle unless it is attached to a upper. They do NOT get marked as rifle on the 4473. It’s a common gun store mistake . The manager screwed up giving you that lower as a rifle.
 
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Solidsnack. said:
I told him that it was a rifle lower and therefore not subject to the pistol regulations of that time. He told me because I could put a short upper on it and make it a pistol that he needed to see a PPP or CCP....which I then reminded him that would be making an SBR, not a pistol and that SBR's are still rifles and not pistols. Never mind the fact that it was marked as a long gun on the 4473 lol.
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So many things wrong with this portion…by all parties involved.
 
Lol, so I spoke to 2 different people who work in gunstores and yeah, it shouldn't have been transferred as a long gun on the 4473 and asking for a PPP was valid on their part.

Oh well, it was years ago and I ended up just sending it back to PSA for a full refund because it was such a hunk of junk to begin with.The_More_You_Know_0-0_screenshot.png
 
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Solidsnack. said:
Lol, so I spoke to 2 different people who work in gunstores and yeah, it shouldn't have been transferred as a long gun on the 4473 and asking for a PPP was valid on their part.

Oh well, it was years ago and I ended up just sending it back to PSA for a full refund because it was such a hunk of junk to begin with.View attachment 626072
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So somebody at a gun store did something wrong, and your way to confirm it was to ask other people at gun stores? 🤔

You could just read the 4473:

IMG_6998.jpeg
 
Solidsnack. said:
Your story reminds me of an instance at Blackstone shooting sports. When I lived in Charlotte, I bought a PSA AR-10 lower and had it shipped there. It was a complete lower (and a complete hunk of junk. Would not let any mag seat in it because the hole for the mag catch was a few thousandths too high lol it was milled wrong) anyway....When I went to pay for it the guy asked to see my pistol purchase permit or CC license.

I told him that it was a rifle lower and therefore not subject to the pistol regulations of that time. He told me because I could put a short upper on it and make it a pistol that he needed to see a PPP or CCP....which I then reminded him that would be making an SBR, not a pistol and that SBR's are still rifles and not pistols. Never mind the fact that it was marked as a long gun on the 4473 lol. He insisted and started to get fussy with me and boxed it back up to deny me the transfer, luckily his manager heard us, walked over and said "Nah, he's right" talking about me and let me leave the store with my lower.

Over the years it has become horrendously apparent to me that the average gunstore employee knows dismally little about gun laws or even guns in general compared to even your average forum lurker. Also, Ive never been back to Blackstone nor will I ever pay another 50 dollar transfer fee. The guys local to me charge me 15 bucks for a transfer and one of the best gunsmith's Ive ever met works there too.
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I've been to Blackstone. Looked nice in there, but everything seemed overpriced. Way out of the way too. Id rather go to Cabela's, although I swear the employees are keeping the primers in the back to buy them with their employee discount or something...

Its pretty wild though, all the badly informed gun store employees. As it turns out, the guy at the Myrtle beach PSA could have sold me that AK receiver, and just sent it to the Denver PSA to do the background check and take it home.
 
wired said:
He was right . Receivers , even complete lowers , transfer out as “other” but follow all the pistol rules. They cannot be sold to out of state residents. Rifles have barrels AND buttstocks. Both. A complete lower is never a rifle unless it is attached to a upper. They do NOT get marked as rifle on the 4473. It’s a common gun store mistake . The manager screwed up giving you that lower as a rifle.
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Federally they may follow all pistol rules, but in Solidsnacks case, none of the federal laws would have kept him from buying the lower. He lived in Charlotte at the time, so it was not an out of state transfer. The pistol purchase permit thing (at the time) was an NC State law not a Federal law. You did not need a PPP to buy an "other". I bought plenty of AR lowers and never needed a PPP. I don't know the specific verbiage of what that law said, but it probably had something to do with anything marked pistol on the 4473 required a PPP.
 
Jerzsubbie said:
To answer your question, yes, I’ve encountered something similar trying to buy a stripped AR lower at the Ferdinand(sp?) Rd store 7-8yr ago.

You can only buy long guns in neighboring states, not pistols or “firearms”. Receivers that aren’t complete are not long guns.
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Helpful information, thank you.
 
shooter_mcgavin said:
Helpful information, thank you.
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I didn’t catch it the first time…but “neighboring state” has nothing to do with it. The only two categories that matter are “your state” and “any other state”.
 
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