Derek Chavin case - help me understand the charges

Chuckman said:
It was brief, and he said exactly what he saw. He didn't go off-script or go all "well, I think this what was happening."
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I was a little surprised by the lack of urgency to get him into the back of the rig and start resuscitation efforts. I completely understand being calm and a pressure situation and running around like a chicken with your head cut off is usually counterproductive.

I almost felt like it was a little bit political since there was already an agitated crowned gathered.

I am definitely not saying the outcome would’ve been different or they did anything wrong.

any thoughts on their apparent degree of urgency dealing with a pulseless non-responsive subject?
 
It's possible the cop could be convicted under "Felony murder rule" It's a stretch and hinges on whether or not the hold was an assault.

I was in the no camp but this video explains it pretty well. 15 minutes though.
 
Officer testified yesterday that they were NOT taught to hold a cuffed suspect down with a knee to the neck and that it was indeed deadly force.

If I had to guess, that technique might be used briefly to control the subject to get the cuffs on. Once cuffed that position should be given up, but wasn't. But I'm just guessing on that.

Like I've said before, holding that restraint too long is dangerous and just outright looks bad. Nothing good comes of it when things go sideways like this.
 
NCFubar said:
I was under the impression that if you are able to talk you are able to breath ... just sayin’ ...

Now there are certain levels of constriction or such that may lead to stressors or such that could bring on other conditions but that is not what every MSM story leads with “Floyd couldn’t breathe” is their go to story. To me it would boil down to what the ME says was cause of death and what factor Chauvin and crew played in it. We’re their actions reasonable considerint how Floyd acted? Did they render/allow reasonable medical assistance? All the facts would need to really be weighted to determine to what or if any level Chauvin and crew are responsible and should be legally held to.
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If you're choking you can't talk since you're unable to exhale over the vocal chords creating sound. If you're being asphyxiated you can still talk.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
 
When this case pops up in my brain now and then, I keep thinking of that pesky little thing in the Declaration of Independence that seems to get in the way sometimes.

Y’all know. That Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness thing that’s in there.

There’s also that annoying thing known as: “Due Process”.

Mr. Floyd, no matter what was in his system, and no matter what he did prior to the last ten minutes of his life, was a restrained human being that was denied his Life that day.

It wasn’t denied by a jury of his peers. It wasn’t denied by a judge in a court of law.

It was denied by Officer Chauvin. He had no knowledge, nor did anyone else at the scene have knowledge of, the drugs in Floyd’s system.

I’ll ask it again. How would a non-LEO such as myself or any one of us on here be treated by the justice system if we kneeled on someone’s neck and back for almost ten minutes, and prevented intervention, when that person was having a drug induced or some other medical episode?

Chauvin needs to face the exact same fate as any one of us or any other non-LEO citizen would face under the same circumstances.

A grown man while being held down by an officer of the law, started asking for his Mom. That right there folks says it all in my opinion.

It’s really pathetic. It really is. To me anyway.
 
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Wahoo95 said:
Its difficult to inhale with weight on top of you.
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pfft, you think we've never dated big girls?
we already know that.

but yeah, the fact that he was easily able to talk about how he couldn't breathe is pretty questionable. opioids depress breathing via neurological methods, not physical ones.

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If i really wanted to, i could hook up my old external drive to my old laptop and show some rat single-neuron recordings of the brainstem neurons in question... if my measurements were off, i got those ones instead of the ones I was going for.
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i stole that from the google, but that's how they fire to control breathing... or how they don't fire when you're on fentanyl...
 
NCFubar said:
I was under the impression that if you are able to talk you are able to breath ... just sayin’ ...
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I can make you pass out without interfering with your breathing at all.

I can also kill you the same way.

You'd be able to talk the whole time, too.

Meanwhile, your brain is dying from lack of oxygen...
 
Positional asphyxiation is nothing new. Law enforcement has known about it for decades. The technique used is only for control. Once control is established, the subject is then placed in a recovery position. I do not know any agencies that continue training their officers to keep the subject down in that position with their body weight pressing down on the subject once control and/or compliance is achieved. Anyone placed faced down handcuffed in the back will eventually start feeling the effects of positional asphyxiation. Several factors slow down or speed up the process. Healthy individuals in great cardiovascular shape with slim builds take longer (much longer) to feel any effects. Individuals who are obese, poor physical conditioning, chronic health issues (asthma, for example), using controlled substances, or added weight on the neck and back will experience life-threatening low oxygen levels much faster. The chest and abdomen muscles become fatigued. Added weight on those areas causes the muscles to become fatigued faster, and yes, you can still talk. Thus limiting the body's ability to exchange O2 and CO2 in the lungs. To demonstrate ly face down with your hands placed behind your back on the floor. You will see what I am describing sooner or later. In my best, I'm not a lawyer and don't play one on TV voice, please don't try that alone, have someone there to help in case of an emergency. Like @NKD, when I watched the video for the first time, I knew what was about to happen and was in disbelief. Officer Chauvin was emotionally overwhelmed by the incident, and it kept him from seeing what was happening. Cops are like everyone else. They have emotions and are subject to being overwhelmed, leading to poor decisions. Annual use of force training just began at my Office. I used this case (among others) to demonstrate three important points. First, when control and/or compliance is achieved, reduce the amount of force immediately to only what is necessary to keep the subject under control. Second, once a face-down subject is cuffed, immediately place them in a recovery position and monitor vital signs for at least 15 mins. Third, learn to control your emotions, and if you see yourself becoming too emotionally involved in a situation, get someone to relieve you and back off. There is nothing wrong with stepping back and letting someone else take over for you. Without being there, it is hard to say exactly what Chauvin was feeling and thinking at that moment, but the outcome was as predictable as the sun rising in the east and setting in the west.
 
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RetiredUSNChief said:
I can make you pass out without interfering with your breathing at all.

I can also kill you the same way.

You'd be able to talk the whole time, too.

Meanwhile, your brain is dying from lack of oxygen...
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Oh yeah ... right arm placement and the carotid artery is a 15-20 second sleepy hold especially if you get both branches. Hold it to long and brain damage or death is right behind it.
 
NCFubar said:
Oh yeah ... right arm placement and the carotid artery is a 15-20 second sleepy hold especially if you get both branches. Hold it to long and brain damage or death is right behind it.
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True. I'd say it's an interesting way to get knocked out, but it's really not. It's an interesting way to wake up because you don't even know it happened except for the fact that everybody has moved around in the blink of an eye.

Still, i wouldn't think that the way he was kneeling would have done that. maybe though. i'm not really an expert on that.
 
So, when I was growing up I had two older brothers, and they were bigger, meaner, and smarter than me. This is not a wonderful equation to live under.

For sport, they would throw bean bag chairs on top of me and sit on them. For them, it was great fun, for me, it was horrifying. I remember vividly not being able to breathe well. I could still yell out "MOM! I CANT BREATHE!" and my mom, being typical old school would reply "If you can yell, you can breathe.". Long story short, I dont remember dying. May have happened, and I am not in some form of perpetual hell that I cant escape, and you are all here with me, or are figments of my hellish nightmare.

With that said, I really, honestly, and truthfully could not breathe >well< and if my brothers had continued to apply the pressure I have little doubt I would have passed out. They had applied pressure to my abdomen which made breathing exponentially more difficult. With effort I could breathe, but at perhaps 20% capacity. Enough to make wimpish yells for aid, but not enough to completely sustain myself. My brothers, being the experts in anatomy as they were, knew to jump up every time my mom would yell at them to cut it out, just to flop right back down on top of the bean bag chair and exclaim "I did get up! I did get up!".

So, I do understand that "If you can yell, you can breathe" is only really partially true. You can breathe, but not enough.
 
Post them then
Goofyfoot2001 said:
Obviously few of you have seen all of the videos. There is ZERO malice here so nothing with intent will stick. If he was following procedure the again nothing will stick.

Those officers went way far above and beyond with this guy. They were amazingly nice.
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Goofyfoot2001 said:
Again, you haven't seen all of the VIDEOS plural. There are like three.
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1. Don't pass off counterfeit bills while stealing a banana from a retail establishment while high on meth.
2. Don't get behind the wheel to drive after your con fails while high on meth.
3. Don't swallow your Fentanyl when in your meth-induced paranoia when the police show up for passing off fake money
4. Don't die from having someone having their knee in your back (or media portrayal of neck) but from drug overdose that Narcan would not have fixed due to meth.

Officer will walk, Red Minnesota will burn, and I'll watch it eating popcorn with a Coca-Cola online.
 
Slimer said:
1. Don't pass off counterfeit bills while stealing a banana from a retail establishment while high on meth.
2. Don't get behind the wheel to drive after your con fails while high on meth.
3. Don't swallow your Fentanyl when in your meth-induced paranoia when the police show up for passing off fake money
4. Don't die from having someone having their knee in your back (or media portrayal of neck) but from drug overdose that Narcan would not have fixed due to meth.

Officer will walk, Red Minnesota will burn, and I'll watch it eating popcorn with a Coca-Cola online.
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Pepsi, we aren't doing coca cola anymore.
 
The crux of his defense is that he was doing what he was trained to do. Not a single person who has taken the stand has confirmed that he was trained to use this technique. As they go deeper into what training he did receive his defense will crumble. I can guarantee there will be no one who takes the stand and say, "That is what he was trained to do.... "
 
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Goofyfoot2001 said:
Go find them yourself. Tired of doing everyones legwork.
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I don't need nor care to see them. I was just stating that you kept saying watch them then, then sitting back like a bump on a log as with just abouteverything you try to discuss.

We, people of this forum, usually post whe stuff we talk about. Not just blow hot air.
 
Langenfeld doctor who declared Floyd dead
Nelson defense attorney

Here’s how part of the exchange today went:
Nelson: There are many things that cause hypoxia that are still considered asphyxiation?
Langenfeld: Correct.
Nelson: Drug use, certain drugs, can cause hypoxia?
Langenfeld: Correct.
Nelson: Specifically fentanyl?
Langenfeld: That’s correct.
Nelson: How about methamphetamine?
Langenfeld: It can.
Nelson: Combination of the two?
Langenfeld: Yes.
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Nelson also questioned Langenfeld about carbon dioxide levels relative to shortness of breath.

The doctor agreed that higher levels of CO2 can lead to a sensation of a shortness of breath, even without added stress. Langenfeld also said that fentanyl can cause higher CO2 levels, “because it depresses the ventilation, or the breathing.”

Floyd’s CO2 levels were double what is average when Langenfeld attended to him, he said.
 
I believe he moved his knee to the shoulder of Floyd when the emt's arrived. This was shown in court today.
 
Goofyfoot2001 said:
Pepsi, we aren't doing coca cola anymore.
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Con: Coca-Cola advertises going woke.
Pro: Coca-Cola actually contracts right-wing death squads to kill Marxist "labor leaders" outside the USA.
Con: Pepsi is based 30 miles from NEW YAWK CITY and 15 miles from Stamford, Connecticut. They hated North Carolina enough to leave it for Yankeeland.
Pro: Coca-Cola is still in Atlanta.
Con: Pepsi is garbage
Pro: Coca-Cola and Diet Coke are sublime nectar

The real red pill is that Coca-Cola is advertising to woke idiots only builds their capitalist empire.

iu
 
NCFubar said:
Oh yeah ... right arm placement and the carotid artery is a 15-20 second sleepy hold especially if you get both branches. Hold it to long and brain damage or death is right behind it.
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EXACTLY.

A shipmate didn't believe me once upon a time when I told him I could make him pass out with just my pinkie finger.

He stood there while I pressed on the artery just to the side of his throat (either side will do...where you feel the pulse).

A few seconds later and he passed out.

He could breathe and talk...but he wasn't getting full blood flow to his brain.

Tunnel vision sets in, vision narrows down until it goes black aaaaaand he's out.

ANY neck pressure, including that caused by compression OR abnormally twisted/turned head, and ESPECIALLY a combination of both (like being pinned to the ground with a knee on the neck), can also cause this. And it can be deadly.
 
The one thing that no one seems to be considering....

Where are they physically located? (Once you say the on the ground...the rear of the vehicle, etc...LOL, scroll down for the next picture)


f1aa9fb6-7de1-4576-bfb9-10621548618e-Derek_Chauvin.jpg



Now....let's take a "look-see" at what is also in that location.....yep.....the exhaust pipe. I don't know why no one has mentioned this in the investigations.


ford-police-interceptor-e1475592714604.jpg
 
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