Discussion on the new plastic cases

clay_fv

clay_fv

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So I was watching a youtube vid on the development of the new 6.8x51 round that the military is evaluating. The plastic cases look like they have amazing advantages over brass. The question for us civies is simply: Can it be reloaded? This is just me thinking out loud and wondering about future uses. I know we're a LOOOOoooong ways away from ever being done with brass, probably won't be seen in my lifetime, or at least till the back end of it. But what about those of us that would love to use this new tech?

Again, just thinking out loud, if it's so strong as to withstand 60-70k PSI, would it simply retain its shape and need no resizing? Then bullet seating? If it fully retains its shape, just seat the bullet and never need to be crimped or tapered? Or... if it requires some amount of resizing, it seems it would require a level of heat to shrink it back down. Hmmmm I'm certainly interested in hearing thoughts on the subject, especially if people have had experience with the stuff.
 
Toprudder said:
I really have to wonder about neck tension after seating a new bullet. I'm almost certain that being able to reload it was not a consideration.
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That's why I'm wondering out loud. How did they seat the bullet in the first place to where it has proper tension? Especially for a semi-auto. I'm just looking for an out loud discussion, "wondering" where this will go. But damn, plastic cases offer some amazing benefits. Heat transfer (or lack thereof) being #1, which can actually lead to better loadings with more velocity.
 
I can't imagine they would be reloadable. Just imagine what the heat would do to the structure of the plastic... that can't be good for it and if they were designing it to take multiple heat cycles and handle multiple firings... then it would be WAY over engineered for military one time uses purposes.
 
I imagine they’ll be pretty cheap eventually. The real question is how quickly the appropriate die will be available to load them.
 
Pogue said:
I imagine they’ll be pretty cheap eventually. The real question is how quickly the appropriate die will be available to load them.
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This is what I wonder. Would they be so cheap that reloading is not be worth it?

IMO there is the military use of a round and then there is the civilian's use and I don't think they are the same. I don't see the military worrying about reloading what was just shot too much vs getting lead downrange were as we are used to getting milsup brass to reload with as a consistent source of reloading. Brass has been used as a casing as there hasn't been really anything else (other than annealed steel (but still coated)) and this is all we know. I see a paradigm shift in how we need to assess this. If the overall price is pretty low, would there really be a need for reloading (aside from precision stuff. I'm talking range play and general shooting). This is all with respect to mass produced ammo, not precision stuff.
 
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Loading your own will always be cheaper (lol, I know…)

I think the poly cases are a great idea and hope manufactures are able to start getting them to the civilian market in all the popular calibers soon.
 
Another stupid quick idea, but is this something we could eventually "mold" ourselves just like bullets? I'm working on molding my own armor out of milk jugs with a simple fiberglass wrap. UHWMPE body armor is VERY close to what we get in our plain 'ole plastic jugs. So could us reloaders end up making our own cases too? I'm sure some "inventive" folks out there might end up finding a method. Again, I'm sure we're an easy 20 years away from this, but I also don't doubt that some methods might pop up. I can't imagine a 30% weight reduction in my ammo!!!!
 
"Plastic" is a vague term. Polymer technology has made some serious strides in the last few decades. The "plastic" bullets we're talking about likely aren't made from the same materials as Coke bottles and Tupperware.
 
two fingers said:
"Plastic" is a vague term. Polymer technology has made some serious strides in the last few decades. The "plastic" bullets we're talking about likely aren't made from the same materials as Coke bottles and Tupperware.
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The "plastics" I'm referring to are cases. Not bullets.
 
clay_fv said:
That's why I'm wondering out loud. How did they seat the bullet in the first place to where it has proper tension? Especially for a semi-auto. I'm just looking for an out loud discussion, "wondering" where this will go. But damn, plastic cases offer some amazing benefits. Heat transfer (or lack thereof) being #1, which can actually lead to better loadings with more velocity.
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As far as neck tension goes, they may actually use some sort of ultrasonic welding when they seat the bullet. There are some factory brass loads that use glue instead of crimping (I have some 357mag factory ammo as an example). Not something a realoader would do.
 
Toprudder said:
As far as neck tension goes, they may actually use some sort of ultrasonic welding when they seat the bullet. There are some factory brass loads that use glue instead of crimping (I have some 357mag factory ammo as an example). Not something a realoader would do.
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Interesting. I wonder if some smart nerd could figure out a way to make that happen for us regular folks.
 
No, I'm certain one of the reasons they chose it was that it cannot be reloaded. We might be able to get the cases as new to load, but reloading isn't a consideration.
 
Sasquatch said:
No, I'm certain one of the reasons they chose it was that it cannot be reloaded. We might be able to get the cases as new to load, but reloading isn't a consideration.
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Would that REALLLLY be a consideration for anything military? They don't reload their own brass, do they? I don't think "reloading" ever comes into any discussion for a military use. JMHO.
 
clay_fv said:
Would that REALLLLY be a consideration for anything military? They don't reload their own brass, do they? I don't think "reloading" ever comes into any discussion for a military use. JMHO.
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Of course you're right that the military doesn't care, it just that reloading was not considered whatsoever. The reason Berdan priming is in Europe (invented by an American) is to prevent reloading. Same reason that in Europe military rounds do not work in the limited number of civilian arms. Someone (Democrats?) are probably thrilled that they can't be reloaded.
 
Sasquatch said:
Of course you're right that the military doesn't care, it just that reloading was not considered whatsoever. The reason Berdan priming is in Europe (invented by an American) is to prevent reloading. Same reason that in Europe military rounds do not work in the limited number of civilian arms. Someone (Democrats?) are probably thrilled that they can't be reloaded.
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I certainly agree that "Dems" will support anything that'd wreck anything gun related. However, I think "they" are all about hollow victories that only support their political careers. I honestly think reloaders are wayyyyy down on their list of priorities. Now, the first time a person shoots up a *insert something here* with reloaded ammo, then maybe all the MSM will find a new source of blood to leach onto. Of course, I could be totally wrong. Politicians only destroy things, so it's possible that was an actual thought.

I've got to say though, hopefully we (reloaders) will find a path into this. Beyond just weight savings, plastic/polymer cases offer some amazing benefits.
 
Sasquatch said:
Of course you're right that the military doesn't care, it just that reloading was not considered whatsoever. The reason Berdan priming is in Europe (invented by an American) is to prevent reloading. Same reason that in Europe military rounds do not work in the limited number of civilian arms. Someone (Democrats?) are probably thrilled that they can't be reloaded.
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Reloading berdan cases is no big deal with the correct decapping tool and berdan primers. Reloaders in Europe do it with no problem
 
I’ve been keeping up with the general dynamics rifle & ammo entry in the military trials and found this video to be extremely enlightening, it may have changed my mind a bit, I mean I watched the guy shoot a 20-30 burst of plastic cased ammo through a 240 and he touched the chamber immediately after firing and the chamber was still cool to the touch.

 
Who's gonna be the first kid on the block with a plastic case extrusion/molding machine?
 
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