Does my "New Hampshire Non-resident pistol permit" allow me to conceal in NC?

thomasteeter

thomasteeter

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My goal is to conceal a pistol in NC, however my recent bookings for NC gun course keep cancelling due to c0vld nonsense, so I currently have a "New Hampshire Non-resident pistol permit", but do not know if it'll allow me to conceal in NC?

According to the NH site, you can open carry and conceal carry without a permit or paperwork, nada. Since NH has reciprocity with 30 states, including NC, I assume I can use my NH permit to conceal in NC too. BUT I DON'T KNOW FOR SURE. So I contacted NH police, which referred me to NC sheriffs, who also weren't 100% sure and said it may be a gray area. So, I've yet to find any online proof for the issue.

Here is what my current NH permit looks like, it says nothing of CCW of course, because none of NH cards will say CCW because they dont require ANYTHING to conceal:

Does anyone have any further info to help me solve the question? Will my "NH non-resident pistol permit" allow me to conceal in NC?

non resident new hampshire pistol license.png

Thx
 
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IANAL....

Pretty sure the law is that if you’re an NC resident, then you need an NC permit to carry concealed in NC.

“Non-Resident” permits are intended to give license to visitors to NH from states that do not issue permits or do not have reciprocity.
 
Visitors to NC can carry with a valid permit from their state of residency. Tim is correct if you are a NC Resident you need the NC permit.

Concealed carry is legal for residents with a North Carolina Concealed Handgun Permit (CHP) and for non-residents with any valid license/permit. North Carolina CHP’s are issued to residents and members of the military permanently posted in North Carolina and require a firearms training course that has been approved by the state. The minimum age is 21 years old. In terms of reciprocity, North Carolina recognizes permits from all states.

www.usconcealedcarry.com

North Carolina Concealed Carry Gun Laws: CHP & Reciprocity Map

Last Updated 05/19/2021. North Carolina allows concealed carry with a permit. Learn about NC gun laws, CCW permits & view the reciprocity map
www.usconcealedcarry.com www.usconcealedcarry.com
 
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Read the statute very carefully. This was debated heavily when N.C. scripted to recognize all other permits. I agree that presenting an NC DL and an NH permit isnt going to go well at the side of the road, so you had better know the rules inside and out, but it’s going to be the exact words that matter, not the intent.
 
NC honors ALL out of state permits.

but as stated above there is a lot of misunderstanding so it may be questioned by someone
 
It's my belief that the law allows this by wording, but not intent. At the end of the day it's what the cop you present it to thinks the law says that matters in that moment. I'd expect some cuff and a ride, maybe getting proned out on the concrete while he disarms you if he's one of those distrustful SOBs. You might get the case dismissed later,, but who needs that?? He just as easily could shrug and had back your cards and get to business at hand.
NC is a must disclose state so you need to inform the officer upon contact.
 
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You can’t carry with out of state resident permit once you become an NC resident...I think we all agree there.

But wasn’t the whole point of NC residents getting VA non-resident permits because it was easier a valid thing? I remember several articles about it a couple years ago. If you have a non-resident permit from another state, that was valid to use to carry here? (And I’d assume with the understanding it can’t be used to purchase)

Now, there’s another issue with the permit posted because it doesn’t say anything about concealed...and I’d agree that would cause some issues.
 
BigWaylon said:
Now, there’s another issue with the permit posted because it doesn’t say anything about concealed...and I’d agree that would cause some issues.
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Yeah that part looks more like permission to own than permission to carry concealed.
You can open carry. Just don't conceal it in the car.
 
Hey TY, Yes it would be nice to find some exact code for or against the situation, because I know there are sites that convincingly help you setup your license request as a non resident of a state that has reciprocity with the state your in AND because the following isn't specific but leads one to think a "NH non-resident pistol permit" will allow me to conceal in NC:

//www.nh.gov/safety/divisions/nhsp/jib/permitslicensing/plupr.html
"Pistol/Revolver licenses issued by the State of New Hampshire to out-of-state residents are ONLY valid within the State of New Hampshire OR within a state that recognizes a New Hampshire non-resident pistol/revolver license."

//www.nh.gov/safety/divisions/nhsp/jib/permitslicensing/conceal-carry-faq.html
"Am I required to obtain a Resident or Non-Resident Concealed carry license within the State of New Hampshire if I choose to carry. License to Carry was amended to no longer require a resident or non-resident to obtain a license to carry a pistol or revolver concealed."

//www.nh.gov/safety/divisions/nhsp/jib/permitslicensing/conceal-carry-faq.html
"What is the benefit of obtaining a resident or non-resident concealed carry license?
Licenses issued from the State of New Hampshire may be required for residents and non-residents seeking to carry under a RECIPROCITY PURPOSES WITHIN ANOTHER STATE."

//www.usconcealedcarry....
"Concealed carry is legal without a license, however, Pistol/Revolver Licenses (PRLs) are issued to residents and non-residents FOR RECIPROCITY PURPOSES."

//www.ncdoj.gov/law-enforcement-training/law-enforcement-liason/concealed-weapon-reciprocity/
"States with North Carolina Agreements: New Hampshire"

I will look at your supplied info shortly, THX
 
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The whole non-resident permit for a NC resident is a very grey area. I actually talked to the guys at NC justice Department and asked them a couple of months ago and they said it is not addressed in the NC statues and currently if you have a valid non-resident permit from another state and are a resident of NC that the permit is honored but that they need to clarify it in the statutes going forward so that it is not a grey area anymore.
 
TSConver said:
The whole non-resident permit for a NC resident is a very grey area. I actually talked to the guys at NC justice Department and asked them a couple of months ago and they said it is not addressed in the NC statues and currently if you have a valid non-resident permit from another state and are a resident of NC that the permit is honored but that they need to clarify it in the statutes going forward so that it is not a grey area anymore.
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When I took my NC CHP class the instructor told me I was not legal to carry on my VA-non resident permit. I told him I has already looked up the statue and talked to the County Sheriff and confirmed it was legal. The instructor kept telling me I was wrong. During our lunch break I told him to call Sheriff Francis and ask him. He did and acknowledge I was correct but add "you can't buy a handgun with it." I later verified it with the local DA. It is valid regardless of your state of residency.

That said just like the CHP instructor many LEO in the state will not understand the law they are tasked to enforce.
 
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wvsig said:
When I took my NC CHP class the instructor told me I was not legal to carry on my VA-non resident permit. I told him I has already looked up the statue and talked to the County Sheriff and confirmed it was legal. The instructor kept telling me I was wrong. During our lunch break I told him to call Sheriff Francis and ask him. He did and acknowledge I was correct but add "you can't buy a handgun with it." I later verified it with the local DA. It is valid regardless of your state of residency.

That said just like the CHP instructor many LEO in the state will not understand the law they are tasked to enforce.
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Did I say it was not legal? The law is not clear and the state agrees it is legal but they are planning on updating the law to clarify. Unfortunately from the email I got it sounds like they will make it illegal to be a NC resident and carry on a nonresident permit. It could take years for them to address it, so right now you can carry as a NC resident using a nonresident permit from another state.
 
TSConver said:
Did I say it was not legal? The law is not clear and the state agrees it is legal but they are planning on updating the law to clarify. Unfortunately from the email I got it sounds like they will make it illegal to be a NC resident and carry on a nonresident permit. It could take years for them to address it, so right now you can carry as a NC resident using a nonresident permit from another state.
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I am agreeing with you. It is currently legal but you are in jeopardy of an ignorant LEO believing it isn't on the side of the road. I have moved 4 times in the last 11 years. I have a Non-Resident VA permit which I use as a bridge so I can carry in my new state until I can get a state permit. I research the validity of my non-resident permit from VA when moving to a new state. I found exactly the same info you did. I always recommend getting a permit from the state you live in but in the meantime you can carry on a non-resident permit from another state while driving on a NC lic. I am not arguing with you am reinforcing what you stated unless you were my NC CHP instructor. LMAO.
 
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BigWaylon said:
You can’t carry with out of state resident permit once you become an NC resident...
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About a decade ago, I took a job in VA. I spent 5 days a week in VA and 2 days in NC. I still owned a house and property in NC. I kept my vehicles registered to NC and often times kept a vehicle garaged in NC. Due to legal and tax liability concerns I investigated the concept of residency. From a legal standpoint my research indicated that there is no litmus test, including having a drivers license, or any one criteria that determines residency, but rather it is a preponderance of conditions and still somewhat nebulous.

Its similar to the idea of creating a corporation in MT, which does not have personal property tax, and placing ownership of your cars in the corporation and registering them in MT. As far as MT is concerned, it is perfectly legal, but NC will try to object.
 
From the original post is your New Hampshire permit valid in North Carolina. The answer is if you have a valid permit from any state in the United States then North Carolina will accept that permit. In Short North Carolina accept all carry permit from all states according to the head of the training division of North Carolina.
 
Thx for the responses! VERY HELPFUL. I've now spoken to the NH officers and NC officers and NH dept of safety and am waiting on DOJ and other NC depts. etc. The general response is, IM NOT SURE, ITS A GRAY AREA. At some point I'll grab a NC ccw, but until then, as some have said, I would feel better having some info with the card to at least quote to the officer, in case hes eager to fine me etc.

Yes, thank you @Bullseye Baldee. I understand that the ncdps.gov states "Effective December 1, 2011, North Carolina automatically recognizes concealed carry permits issued in any other state." So, you'd assume the NC attorney Generals office should accept my NH NON RESIDENT PERMIT as a NC CONCEAL PERMIT. However, I'm not sure where else I might quote from to support your thought. Do you know where else?

Does anyone have any statute I may quote or online info I could print to defend myself before an officer?

What I'm trying to get is at least an approved response in an email, so that I can print and at least have that in my wallet.
 
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thomasteeter said:
What I'm trying to get is at least an approved response in an email, so that I can print and at least have that in my wallet.
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What also might be helpful is if you can find any case law where the issue has been tried. I am not aware of any, but a short consult with an attorney might be beneficial. If nothing else, you might get one in your pocket if you do wind up hot water. Another avenue you might approach is GRNC to see if they're aware of any cases, opinions, etc, that could serve as precedent.
 
I am not 100% sure about if NC will or won’t recognize an out of state non-resident CHP for a NC resident BUT I would suggest contacting the New Hampshire State Police and get an address change going to reflect your current address just to take at least that factor a LEO can ask about. After that I ain’t sure about anything else.
 
thomasteeter said:
Thx for the responses! VERY HELPFUL. I've now spoken to the NH officers and NC officers and NH dept of safety and am waiting on DOJ and other NC depts. etc. The general response is, IM NOT SURE, ITS A GRAY AREA. At some point I'll grab a NC ccw, but until then, as some have said, I would feel better having some info with the card to at least quote to the officer, in case hes eager to fine me etc.

Yes, thank you @Bullseye Baldee. I understand that the ncdps.gov states "Effective December 1, 2011, North Carolina automatically recognizes concealed carry permits issued in any other state." So, you'd assume the NC attorney Generals office should accept my NH NON RESIDENT PERMIT as a NC CONCEAL PERMIT. However, I'm not sure where else I might quote from to support your thought. Do you know where else?

Does anyone have any statute I may quote or online info I could print to defend myself before an officer?

What I'm trying to get is at least an approved response in an email, so that I can print and at least have that in my wallet.
Click to expand...

That is the problem, there is no statue that says as a NC resident that you can conceal carry with a non-resident permit issued by another state. It also does not state that you cannot carry as a NC resident using a non-resident permit from another state. As mentioned the DOJ and the education guys that teach the instructors that teach the class have recognized this and they are trying to get it fixed in the statutes, unfortunately it will likely be written that if you are a NC resident that you have to have a NC CHP to carry in NC. But until then it is not defined and will end up with your local officer deciding and then you having to possibly fight it in court. I would recommend a good CHP insurance carrier that will back you up if you get in a pickle.
 
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TSConver said:
That is the problem, there is no statue that says as a NC resident that you can conceal carry with a non-resident permit issued by another state. It also does not state that you cannot carry as a NC resident using a non-resident permit from another state. As mentioned the DOJ and the education guys that teach the instructors that teach the class have recognized this and they are trying to get it fixed in the statutes, unfortunately it will likely be written that if you are a NC resident that you have to have a NC CHP to carry in NC. But until then it is not defined and will end up with your local officer deciding and then you having to possibly fight it in court. I would recommend a good CHP insurance carrier that will back you up if you get in a pickle.
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it didn’t really seem like a grey area. Things that are not expressly prohibited are legal by default.

it seems like we need to lobby against the “fix“ which basically puts up another barrier for the citizens of North Carolina to conceal carry.

would you mind sharing your contacts that are trying to “fix“ this?
 
thomasteeter said:
Thx for the responses! VERY HELPFUL. I've now spoken to the NH officers and NC officers and NH dept of safety and am waiting on DOJ and other NC depts. etc. The general response is, IM NOT SURE, ITS A GRAY AREA. At some point I'll grab a NC ccw, but until then, as some have said, I would feel better having some info with the card to at least quote to the officer, in case hes eager to fine me etc.

Yes, thank you @Bullseye Baldee. I understand that the ncdps.gov states "Effective December 1, 2011, North Carolina automatically recognizes concealed carry permits issued in any other state." So, you'd assume the NC attorney Generals office should accept my NH NON RESIDENT PERMIT as a NC CONCEAL PERMIT. However, I'm not sure where else I might quote from to support your thought. Do you know where else?

Does anyone have any statute I may quote or online info I could print to defend myself before an officer?

What I'm trying to get is at least an approved response in an email, so that I can print and at least have that in my wallet.
Click to expand...

General statute 14-415.24. is what you need.

It seems like section (a) couldn't be more clear.

§ 14-415.24. Reciprocity; out-of-state handgun permits.
(a) A valid concealed handgun permit or license issued by another state is valid in North Carolina.
(b) Repealed by Session Laws 2011-268, s. 22(a), effective December 1, 2011.
(c) Every 12 months after the effective date of this subsection, the Department of Justice shall make written inquiry of the concealed handgun permitting authorities in each other state as to: (i) whether a North Carolina resident may carry a concealed handgun in their state based upon having a valid North Carolina concealed handgun permit and (ii) whether a North Carolina resident may apply for a concealed handgun permit in that state based upon having a valid North Carolina concealed handgun permit. The Department of Justice shall attempt to secure from each state permission for North Carolina residents who hold a valid North Carolina concealed handgun permit to carry a concealed handgun in that state, either on the basis of the North Carolina permit or on the basis that the North Carolina permit is sufficient to permit the issuance of a similar license or permit by the other state. (2003-199, s. 1; 2011-268, s. 22(a).)

This section is also relevant
§ 14-415.11. Permit to carry concealed handgun; scope of permit.
(a) Any person who has a concealed handgun permit may carry a concealed handgun unless otherwise specifically prohibited by law. The person shall carry the permit together with valid identification whenever the person is carrying a concealed handgun, shall disclose to any law enforcement officer that the person holds a valid permit and is carrying a concealed handgun when approached or addressed by the officer, and shall display both the permit and the proper identification upon the request of a law enforcement officer. In addition to these requirements, a military permittee whose permit has expired during deployment may carry a concealed handgun during the 90 days following the end of deployment and before the permit is renewed provided the permittee also displays proof of deployment to any law enforcement officer.

The full concealed handgun statute is here the only use of the word resident is in terms of county for application for NC CHP and in the section on reciprocity above.
 
All you have to do is call the training division of the DOJ CCH of NC. I can't remember his name, but I did post in another thread his name. The way NC law is written: All conceal handgun permits are accepted in NC. So even if you are a resident of NC and DO NOT have a NC PERMIT, but you have another state's permit that is valid, then you can carry in NC. If you want to take a CCH class that never cancels, look up Frontline Defense in Warrenton.
 
I do chp classes as well.

As mentioned call the doj education division.

Only thing to add is if you have a resident permit from another state it is most likely void as soon as you get nc residency ak a driver's license.
 
You wanted a name? Bob Overton NCDOJ. Can tell you what the laws are. He is the top dog. Very nice and very helpful!
 
I’ve carried in NC with non resident Utah permit for years. It’s so much easier to get at the time when I got mine I did everything from my computer and they sent me my permit. Only downside is I have to get pistol purchase permits. The biggest plus is the permit is NOT tied to your license plate. I’ve never disclosed at a traffic stop. Never been a problem.
 
Bigdave0924 said:
I’ve carried in NC with non resident Utah permit for years. It’s so much easier to get at the time when I got mine I did everything from my computer and they sent me my permit. Only downside is I have to get pistol purchase permits. The biggest plus is the permit is NOT tied to your license plate. I’ve never disclosed at a traffic stop. Never been a problem.
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I wouldnt advertise that. When carrying in NC you have to follow NC law. NC law requires you to tell the officer that you have a CC permit if you are carrying. That is the problem with CC carrying in any state.....you have to follow that state's laws.
 
Bullseye Baldee said:
I wouldnt advertise that. When carrying in NC you have to follow NC law. NC law requires you to tell the officer that you have a CC permit if you are carrying. That is the problem with CC carrying in any state.....you have to follow that state's laws.
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If the the LEO doesn’t know I have a CC how will he know I’m carrying? I’d prefer to keep my business my business. Don’t really care about “duty to disclose” bs.

If people want to keep kissing the ring that’s fine by me. I won’t be partaking in that nonsense.

"If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so."
 
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Bigdave0924 said:
If the the LEO doesn’t know I have a CC how will he know I’m carrying? I’d prefer to keep my business my business. Don’t really care about “duty to disclose” bs.

I’d people want to keep kissing the ring that’s fine by me. I won’t be partaking in that nonsense.

"If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so."
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That's your choice! I like to follow the laws. He may not know if you have one, but there is always that small chance that he will see a print of the firearm and if you get a young buck that just got his badge, you will have a bad day. Not here to argue, just want people to know the laws. Have a great day and be safe!
 
Bullseye Baldee said:
That's your choice! I like to follow the laws. He may not know if you have one, but there is always that small chance that he will see a print of the firearm and if you get a young buck that just got his badge, you will have a bad day. Not here to argue, just want people to know the laws. Have a great day and be safe!
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As a law abiding citizen I have had two absolutely horrible traffic stops with small town LEO over firearms in the car. I just choose to keep that to my self now. It’s no fun being pulled out of the car because the deputy sees a 30 round pistol mag in the truck. Didn’t even have the gun to go with the mag but he literally pulled out of my truck by the hood on my hoodie. He had me in handcuffs on the side of the road over a pistol mag. My mouth may have had something to do with that after he acted a fool but anyway. I choose to not disclose.
 
Bigdave0924 said:
It’s no fun being pulled out of the car because the deputy sees a 30 round pistol mag in the truck.
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If the sight of a magazine, let alone a gun, causes such a fear reaction that person has NO business having a gun, let alone being a cop.
 
I believe the safest way to disclose is to hand over a permit from your state of residence along with and on top of your driver's license along with and on top of your insurance card. You've now satisfied the laws, and reduced the number of questions asked in addition to being forthcoming. Cops appreciate it. Tends to make the stop go better.
In Illinois a friend of mine did exactly this. The cop ran his driver's license for warrants and handed him back his cards. Said thanks for being one on the good guys, slow down, have a nice day.
 
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