Don't you think it is time for an amicable divorce?

Except for disagreeing that this, enteral part of Nc, outside the cities at least, should side with the libtard meccas of D.C., and Maryland, I think he's spot on.

The nation needs to fracture.
 
If you look at that map, you'd think that there are governing, sovereign entities apart from the other areas. However it does not point out the reach of the Federal courts in those areas that will shackle attempts by the naysayers to keep their freedoms. Elections have consequences at the Executive level.
 
Meckmeister said:
However it does not point out the reach of the Federal courts in those areas that will shackle attempts by the naysayers to keep their freedom
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That's part of the whole point, telling uncle that he's done and so are his courts. The Revolution needs to occur in people's hearts and minds before the physical one does.

The biggest part of that is realizing that their claim of "authority" is an illusion. It only works if you believe it.
 
I would agree there should be a separation but I don't quite agree with that map. I find I would be crossing into a few other territories from the mid Atlantic southward. Hopefully It wouldn't be a problem.
 
JimB said:
I think you’d find that not even upstate NY would want to be in the same tribe as NYNY.
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Originally from Buffalo, NY and you are absolutely correct. As a whole upstate is not like the NY city tribe.
 
“People choose to move to places where they identify with the values,” Woodard says. “Red minorities go south and blue minorities go north to be in the majority. This is why blue states are getting bluer and red states are getting redder and the middle is getting smaller.”
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Horsefeathers! People move where they can afford to live AND more or less enjoy. The blues are fleeing their high tax utopias and going to the red south. There's a reason they call Cary a containment area except it doesn't contain very well. Unless the "divorce" results in places that have sovereignty, that demographic spread will just continue and our great-grandkids will be on their forums going on about an amicable divorce too. Perhaps we could just do as the founders intended and let the states be sovereign over themselves and the federal government.

Nah, never happen...
 
So we're going to accept defeat and give the liberals half (or whatever) of our territory? Then more liberals move in and we split again? Anyone see a problem with this tactic?
 
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A good friend of mine from the Navy, who was a hardcore Rush Limbaugh conservative about 5 or 6 years ago (and has now pretty much moved to an anarchist position) often has some pretty insightful things to say.

One of his best observations about conservatives AND libertarians is that "So many know the construction of the cage in intimate detail, yet few have figured out the door is unlocked."

And it's absolutely true. The Declaration of Independence is the true original intent for these United States - not the Constitution - and within that document is the same truth:. Governments are instituted among men solely to secure their Rights, and the just powers of government come only from the consent of the People.

Withdraw consent, and government is illegitimate. It will certainly try and prove its legitimacy by sending men with badges and guns to visit violence upon you and your family to force your obedience - and the obedience of others by making a bloody example of you.

The cage door is unlocked. You just have to make the decision to be Free and have the fortitude to see it through.
 
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turkeydance said:
we tried this once before.
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Yes, we did. So did the Hungarians, by the way (see below)

Their attempt at revolution for freedom was utterly crushed and many were hanged.......

The difference between them and us is they weren't pussies about it and came back and did it right.
 
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And they (the Hungarians) are doing it right still. Like the Poles and Czechs, they understanding the dangers of multiculturalism and Marxism.

turkeydance said:
we tried this once before.
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And the only alternative to not trying it again is to accept the whims of the tyrant. Eff that.
 
SPM said:
A good friend of mine from the Navy, who was a hardcore Rush Limbaugh conservative about 5 or 6 years ago (and has now pretty much moved to an anarchist position) often has some pretty insightful things to say.

One of his best observations about conservatives AND libertarians is that "So many know the construction of the cage in intimate detail, yet few have figured out the door is unlocked."

And it's absolutely true. The Declaration of Independence is the true original intent for these United States - not the Constitution - and within that document is the same truth:. Governments are instituted among men solely to secure their Rights, and the just powers of government come only from the consent of the People.

Withdraw consent, and government is illegitimate. It will certainly try and prove its legitimacy by sending men with badges and guns to visit violence upon you and your family to force your obedience - and the obedience of others by making a bloody example of you.

The cage door is unlocked. You just have to make the decision to be Free and have the fortitude to see it through.
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I disagree, or the cage might be unlocked but there is a trigger happy dude with a shotgun just hoping you'll try the door. This kind of sentiment only works if you are in the majority or are willing to do the time or die by yourself. We have to do the real work of taking back the MSM, Entertainment and Education industries and turn around the hearts and minds. Blustering about not complying with existing laws does absolutely nothing to affect our situation, and actually hurts us when we give the media the chance to paint us as extreme when one of us decides to "not comply", i.e. quit paying our taxes, etc.
 
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Flashpoint said:
I disagree, or the cage might be unlocked but there is a trigger happy dude with a shotgun just hoping you'll try the door.
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That's your fear talking. Fight to overcome that fear, or at least quit backbiting about those of us who have.

You will never regain the majority, not ever. They're plugged into their I-phones and NFL and Hollyweird, and they are well beyond reach. Liberty is a sparsely populated place.
 
Flashpoint said:
I disagree, or the cage might be unlocked but there is a trigger happy dude with a shotgun just hoping you'll try the door.
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So it is your opinion that these United States are neither the Land of the Free nor the Home of the Brave?

Not that I disagree with your assessment of the situation-but that is not a unique condition in the course of human events. The struggle is and has always been between Liberty and power, the People and arbitrary authority.


Flashpoint said:
This kind of sentiment only works if you are in the majority or are willing to do the time or die by yourself.
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Our Patriot forefathers were, at best, 25-30% of the population in 1775. Their Loyalist brethren another 20-25%. And though it may be unpopular and uncomfortable to admit, the vast majority of Colonial Americans just wanted the war to go away.

They didn't care one way or the other.

They were apathetic.

It doesn't take a majority to prevail; just a tireless minority intent on setting brushfires of Liberty in the hearts of men.

Flashpoint said:
We have to do the real work of taking back the MSM, Entertainment and Education industries and turn around the hearts and minds. Blustering about not complying with existing laws does absolutely nothing to affect our situation, and actually hurts us when we give the media the chance to paint us as extreme when one of us decides to "not comply", i.e. quit paying our taxes, etc.
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So yours is a century-long plan to change the corrupt system from within?

Further, the principles upon which this Republic was founded - individual Rights and limited government - ARE extreme positions in 21st century America. Both sides - Republican and Democrat, conservative and progressive love big, intrusive government that limits the Rights of the individual to mere privileges granted by the State.

However, the system itself relies on consent and willful obedience to exist. How do you think the federal government is losing the marijuana legalization battle? The People, by and large, are forcing the change.

No other law, edict, or regulation is any different. There are more of us than there are of them, and they know it.

Being a law abiding citizen in a nation where the laws are written by the most corrupt among us is not virtue.
 
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I will admit that I haven't read deeply on this concept of a balkanized USA.

Whenever I start I end up turned off by a few concepts. One is that southerners, esp the so called Appalachian folk don't value education or aren't intelligent. College degrees don't make you good or smart in the ways that really matter.

Another is that I think the critical divide in the nation is not region vs region, it is urban vs rural.

In that particular article, the author speaks admiringly of Yankeedom amd New Netherlands, but leaves out the fact that the ratio of a$$holes per square mile there is probably the highest in the nation, possibly the developed world.
 
OverMountainMan said:
That's your fear talking. Fight to overcome that fear, or at least quit backbiting about those of us who have.

You will never regain the majority, not ever. They're plugged into their I-phones and NFL and Hollyweird, and they are well beyond reach. Liberty is a sparsely populated place.
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YES. But then, it always has been. One of the most idiotic notions out there is the idea that "once upon a time" ... the colonies were populated by a MAJORITY of people who were God fearing patriots and ready to die for liberty. I think we have some of the David Barton kind of crap you see coming out of the Christian right for that.

It is nonsense, unhistorical, silly, and an impediment to any attempts at liberty we have, and is married to the nonsensical idea that if we "wake up" and elect principled people to office, it will issue in kind of a "golden age" of liberty and productive society.

The best(!?) example of that kind of muddled thinking is the address Ted Cruz gave to Liberty University during the 2016 Republican Primary. It is illusory, fantastical, unhistorical, and unrelated either to historical theology or the actual history of the USA. The MAJORITY of colonists were either opposed to rebellion against the crown or were unwilling to fight, even if they supported independence. More than that, AT THE VERY HEIGHT OF THE BIGGEST POTBOILING CHRISTIAN REVIVAL WE HAVE EVER SEEN HERE IN THE NEW WORLD, the max % of professing Christians was less than 40%, and that fervor had died down considerably in the 60 some odd years until the revolution.

There never was such an age. It is a fabricated fairy tale (aka, a lie), and the outcome of revolution was unknown NOT BECAUSE OF THE RESPONSE OF THE BRITISH, but because of the uncertainty of the loyalty of the colonists. LIBERTY ONLY COMES IN SMALL PACKAGES.

Why is that important? Because the continual whining refrain of elements of the right repeats "oh! to have lived in an age where men had courage and integrity, but we can do nothing with this corrupted mess."

The other bogeyman waved about is the spectre of "libruls" just waiting with Obama's version of Hitler Youth to goose step in and ....... I dunno, shut down talk radio stations and seize weapons and ship us off to concentration camps, I guess. I mean, any attempts to back down an out of control fed will be met with overwhelming violence and internecine warfare. If a revolution IS possible, it is not going to be worth the price in blood. I am not surprised at some manicured and hairsprayed millennial "guy" bawling out about the hopelessness of fighting DRONES and warbling on about old fat breathless malcontents running around in the woods playing soldier. What I am surprised at is how much this tripe is puked out by "conservatives."

The fact is that succcessful revolutions for liberty have been pulled off, by the dozens, by people far less ideologically and ethically tight, in number far lower percentage wise, and in the face of governments willing to kill them like ants......., all these have happened in the last few years....., and all you hear is how the Civil War didn't work out for the good guys.....(and the South WERE the good guys, albeit horribly corrupted by the issue of slavery).

It is like a football team who tries running off tackle in the first quarter, gets jammed up at the line of scrimmage, and says "oh well, that won't work! We will never run that play again!"

What we need is some historical perspective, historical literacy, and a hard look at Ukraine, Georgia, Poland, Hungary, Czechoslovakia (both daughter states), Romania, Philippines (Marcos and Corazon Aquino), Uganda, Colombia, and South Africa. Some of these examples are more distinct, some more fuzzy, but all have a common thread that an UTTER REVOLUTION took place, completely displacing the old regime, not a single shot was fired, and the people were much better off afterward. I am puzzled why people are so fearful. We are WAY over 5%, which is overkill on the numbers needed to prosecute a revolution.

Quit thinking I am for storming the Halls of Congress and running around shooting up D.C.. That is not a real revolution. The most comprehensive and radical revolution would not fire a shot (or very few of them, anyway), and would end with and Article V concon.

The only reason it is not happening is that at present, times are too good (smile). That time may be coming to an end. It would make for a good time for a divorce.
 
DurhamDad said:
I will admit that I haven't read deeply on this concept of a balkanized USA.

Whenever I start I end up turned off by a few concepts. One is that southerners, esp the so called Appalachian folk don't value education or aren't intelligent. College degrees don't make you good or smart in the ways that really matter.

Another is that I think the critical divide in the nation is not region vs region, it is urban vs rural.

In that particular article, the author speaks admiringly of Yankeedom amd New Netherlands, but leaves out the fact that the ratio of a$$holes per square mile there is probably the highest in the nation, possibly the developed world.
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Yankee Puritanism is replete with the kind of meddling "dogooderism" which is willing to use force to the point of killing you to impel you to do what is good for you. It is interesting that almost all of the meddling, intrusive, liberty suppressing totalitarian statism we now see being used to SUPPRESS Christian values was once seen as tool to inculcate societal virtues rooted in the bible. You should read Murray Rothbard on the Yankee Puritan ethic in government. The best thing we could possibly do with government is to shrink it to the point where "it is amost no government at all" .... to quote TJ........, come to think of it, that would probably involve a breakup of the USA.

PS. If you have never read the Articles of Confederation, it would be good to d/l them and read a comparison of them to the Consittution. Listen to WHY the change was proposed, and think "did it really work out that well, or did it create more problems than it fixed"...... remember, we WERE a unified country under these articles before the Consittution. just a thought
 
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Flashpoint said:
Blustering about not complying with existing laws does absolutely nothing to affect our situation, and actually hurts us when we give the media the chance to paint us as extreme when one of us decides to "not comply", i.e. quit paying our taxes, etc.
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I'm usually an optimistic guy, but I am also realistic.

If you espouse as small a government as possible, self-sufficiency or liberty as it was meant to be, you will NEVER be shown in a positive light by major media....they are run by the state and I honestly do not see that changing. The only place you would ever get a fair "shake" is in the "fringe" media or perhaps even some foreign media, as they do a much better job of reporting the truth than the major outlets. IMO, that is precisely why we are "conditioned" to view them in a negative light..."conspiracy", "tin-foil" and "fringe" are terms conjured up by the mainstream media in an attempt to discredit any outlet that does not march lock-step with the state.

Just as I would advise anyone to automatically assume any words out of the mouths of politicians are lies, I feel exactly the same way about major media....if I don't trust the "Johns" (politicians), it is for damned sure I ain't trusting their whores (media).
 
wsfiredude said:
I'm usually an optimistic guy, but I am also realistic.

If you espouse as small a government as possible, self-sufficiency or liberty as it was meant to be, you will NEVER be shown in a positive light by major media....they are run by the state and I honestly do not see that changing. The only place you would ever get a fair "shake" is in the "fringe" media or perhaps even some foreign media, as they do a much better job of reporting the truth than the major outlets. IMO, that is precisely why we are "conditioned" to view them in a negative light..."conspiracy", "tin-foil" and "fringe" are terms conjured up by the mainstream media in an attempt to discredit any outlet that does not march lock-step with the state.

Just as I would advise anyone to automatically assume any words out of the mouths of politicians are lies, I feel exactly the same way about major media....if I don't trust the "Johns" (politicians), it is for damned sure I ain't trusting their whores (media).
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Did you know that the term "conspiracy theorist" is a propaganda phrase coined by the CIA to discourage investigative questions regarding their activities? It is true.
 
Don't doubt it a bit.

I am convinced if the American people knew the full truth...how corrupt, depraved and sinister government, at all levels, is and has been, we'd of already had 1776: The Sequel.

Personally, I think you can go back even further...to the beginning. In the 1780s, if most of the populace knew the true intentions of some of the framers, they'd of probably said to themselves, "Whoa, fellas...looks like we may have ended this war a bit prematurely. We dealt with the tyrants abroad; now, it is time to deal with the tyrants at home."
 
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Can I just say, Hello Deep South...
 
Meckmeister said:
If you look at that map, you'd think that there are governing, sovereign entities apart from the other areas. However it does not point out the reach of the Federal courts in those areas that will shackle attempts by the naysayers to keep their freedoms. Elections have consequences at the Executive level.
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if we have ever needed an article V convention for any reason at all, it is the judicial overreach of the USSC. It has erogated to itself the exclusive authority to be the final arbiter of the Constitution, and we have seen a colossal expansion of its power. The states SHOULD have the right to abrogate or nullify a USSC ruling by a 3/5 majority vote. This power grab (which started out in Marbury v Madison) has born poisonous and deadly fruit. It is past time we addressed it. We have a method to do so spelled out in the Consittution itself. It is the STATES calling for an amendment. A convention of states, called specifically to address ONE amendment (the ability to abrogate a USSC ruling via a runaway court), cannot BY DEFINITION, morph into a "runaway convention" where they rewrite the entire constitution. It is time the chicken littles stop repeating nonsense and actually LOOK AT THE MECHANISMS PROVIDED here. It is a clear and common sense and level headed method for grassroots non violent rebellion against the ruling elite. I am slack jawed at the reluctance of conservatives to support it.

https://www.conventionofstates.com/
 
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I would give it a try. What do we have to lose st this point? The alternative is we are going to have to start cracking skulls. Just like with King George, the crown will not abdicate power voluntarily. Some like to say that if we want freedom instead if this inverted totalitarianism (look it up) that we should just move somewhere else. Sorry, but no, they're the ones that should move because they're the ones that refuse yo accept the principles upon which this nation was founded and desire the benevolent hand of their rulers.
 
Yet, just because the mechanism for a runaway convention don't exist, such limitations will fail to stop men of nefarious intent. Which is why the Articles of Confederation turned into the monstrosity we're saddled with, now.

And after this ConCon, we'll look back and say, "We never authorized that! You can't legally twist words into the opposite of their true meanings!"

Boy, we never saw that coming.
 
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