Eform 4

Another text…

Ok. We have 6 approved so far. 2 trust and 4 individual. From Dec 23 and 24.

Still nothing for mine…
 
Aug? Most approvals right now are around March 2021. In terms of the eForm4, I’m reserving my enthusiasm until it actually works AND helps shorten wait times,
92G's comment above was from January of this year.

For a contemporaneous data point, my paper F4 Trust suppressor application went pending mid-March 2021 and was just approved last week. Don't have the stamp yet.
 
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Another text…

Ok. We have 6 approved so far. 2 trust and 4 individual. From Dec 23 and 24.

Still nothing for mine…
So trusts are not taking longer on eform4 than individuals? Are they all in the same stack to be approved I assumed they were separated
 
So trusts are not taking longer on eform4 than individuals? Are they all in the same stack to be approved I assumed they were separated
They’ve never taken longer for eForm 1s…so no surprised on the 4s.
 
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As soon as I posted those on ARF, somebody from NV said they also had two approved this morning…that were submitted 12/24/21.
so when atf said don't cancel paper submissions and resubmit as e-forms because it will only take longer... they were lying.
 
so when atf said don't cancel paper submissions and resubmit as e-forms because it will only take longer... they were lying.
Well, in all fairness, their lips were moving…

😁😁😁
 
Just saw someone post on reddit about their eform 4 being approved.

Ok so I need to go back and read this whole thread. My understanding was the efile thing would speed up in the future but not have a huge impact till they worked through the backlog of paper. If people are getting efile approvals while I'm still sitting on 11, 9 and 6 months for paper forms that is going to make me a sad panda.
 
Ok so I need to go back and read this whole thread. My understanding was the efile thing would speed up in the future but not have a huge impact till they worked through the backlog of paper. If people are getting efile approvals while I'm still sitting on 11, 9 and 6 months for paper forms that is going to make me a sad panda.
Then grab a stick of bamboo…

Because that’s what is happening.
 
Ok so I need to go back and read this whole thread. My understanding was the efile thing would speed up in the future but not have a huge impact till they worked through the backlog of paper. If people are getting efile approvals while I'm still sitting on 11, 9 and 6 months for paper forms that is going to make me a sad panda.
6 applications submitted in june over here
 
92G's comment above was from January of this year.

For a contemporaneous data point, my paper F4 Trust suppressor application went pending mid-March 2021 and was just approved last week. Don't have the stamp yet.

if eForm4 applications are already being approved that’s pretty encouraging, at least compared to paper Form4’s over past year!
 
Great news! If it holds true, I should be about a month out.

Time to sign up for another can to celebrate!
 
There were a couple approvals reported on AR15 in the last two days that don’t make much sense…but they claim to not be military expedites.

8 forms
Submitted: Jan 21
Approved: March 1
…this one doesn’t make sense to me because nobody else has heard of it for 10+ days?

Another reported at 52 days, but didn’t say when it was submitted or approved.

So I’m calling all those questionable at best…but sharing anyway. 🙄
 
Another text from Scott…

Couple more approved from 23rd and 24th. Yours is now the only one from 23rd not approved for some reason.

😢😢😢

09F3BA20-6763-447E-AE44-F47ED300FDD5.gif
 
I'm about to step up to the wheel and try my luck with another .22 can.
 
Not sure yet, maybe a Switchback or a Mask. Any recommendations? Would be nice to be FA friendly (I have the 22 option for the M11)
 
Not sure yet, maybe a Switchback or a Mask. Any recommendations? Would be nice to be FA friendly (I have the 22 option for the M11)
Rugged Oculus is “Belt Fed Rated for .22lr and full-auto rated for 22 WMR, 17 HMR, 17 WSM and 5.7x28mm.” Their Mustang is FA rated for 22LR only, as the baffle and tubes are aluminum.

Dead Air Mask is rated for 22LR, 22MAG, 22 HORNET, 17 HMR, 17 WSM, 5.7X28MM (FNH)…and not barrel restrictions. It ought to be just fine for anything FA.
 
Not waiting anymore. 😡😡😡

They just Disapproved the first one due to:

314C9287-FAB1-4CB4-8A99-D304807532E9.jpeg

The previous one was submitted, and approved, in 2021. Less than 12 months from 12/23/21, not even close to >24 months. I’ve used same format for an exemption letter multiple times with no issues. Already fired off two emails trying to get it reversed. One to the person that answered me Monday, and one that was a guess as so what the examiners email address is based on the signature. We’ll see.

Nothing on the other two at this time, which have the same exemption letter attached.
 
Seems like they’re making stuff up again.

The original submission of the Declaration of Trust was in 2018, so that is past the 24 months. Before disapproving, I verified this with my supervisor. Please resubmit with a copy of the Declaration of Trust.

The Form says:

18E42EF6-4CBE-411B-80F5-567DB2E486AE.jpeg

So I read it as a rolling 24-months. Every approval starts the clock again. There’s nothing in there that says “from the last time you sent in a copy of the trust”. 🙄😡
 
Seems like they’re making stuff up again.

The original submission of the Declaration of Trust was in 2018, so that is past the 24 months. Before disapproving, I verified this with my supervisor. Please resubmit with a copy of the Declaration of Trust.

The Form says:

View attachment 451428

So I read it as a rolling 24-months. Every approval starts the clock again. There’s nothing in there that says “from the last time you sent in a copy of the trust”. 🙄😡
I would agree with your interpretation…pretty clear to me “has had an application approved…within the preceding 24 months…”.

Of course though, I’m not a federal bureaucrat working for an agency that’s sole purpose seems to be to make it as hard as possible for citizens to exercise God given rights codified in some old museum document written on ancient toilet paper!
 
Not waiting anymore. 😡😡😡

They just Disapproved the first one due to:

The previous one was submitted, and approved, in 2021. Less than 12 months from 12/23/21, not even close to >24 months. I’ve used same format for an exemption letter multiple times with no issues. Already fired off two emails trying to get it reversed. One to the person that answered me Monday, and one that was a guess as so what the examiners email address is based on the signature. We’ll see.

Nothing on the other two at this time, which have the same exemption letter attached.
new hires making new people mistakes?
 
I would agree with your interpretation…pretty clear to me “has had an application approved…within the preceding 24 months…”.

Of course though, I’m not a federal bureaucrat working for an agency that’s sole purpose seems to be to make it as hard as possible for citizens to exercise God given rights codified in some old museum document written on ancient toilet paper!
Not to mention…

The one that was submitted and approved in early 2021 apparently used an exemption from 2018, and was approved. 🙄
 
new supervisor too
The other person I talked to is the one that Scott said is the most reliable person up there. She replied today:

It cannot be reversed, once an E-form is disapproved, it cannot be changed.

I spoke to the examiner and it was disapproved because it is 24 months from the original submission of the trust document (which was 2018), not from the last approval that you received using a 24-month exception. You will have to resubmit and upload a copy of the complete trust document.


To which I replied:

That’s not what the instructions say. Somebody up there needs to reinterpret what the forms tell you. I did get a reply from Tracy (I guessed at the email address), and she said the same thing.

There’s nothing in the wording that says anything about the date of the original trust submission. It says 24-months from the date of a prior approval.

FWIW…I’ve had three reversed in the past. Not even on the same day. Disapproved on a Sunday, Approved on a Monday…without me resubmitting or paying again.


And then she replied:

I apologize for the confusion surrounding this, but it is from the original prior approval (where the trust document was received initially). We cannot reverse e-form disapprovals.

Already resubmitted, with a copy of the trust. Going forward, I’ll just send the trust each time. It was just easier with paper forms to not print the whole thing. Also had Scott upload the trust to the two submitted about a month ago.

I emailed the examiner back with the new control number. I also included the info for the two new ones.

Best case scenario: all three get approved in the next 24 hours
Worst case: they end up disapproving the other two in another month or two, and then finally approve this first one sometime later as if it was a brand new submission.
 
The other person I talked to is the one that Scott said is the most reliable person up there. She replied today:

It cannot be reversed, once an E-form is disapproved, it cannot be changed.

I spoke to the examiner and it was disapproved because it is 24 months from the original submission of the trust document (which was 2018), not from the last approval that you received using a 24-month exception. You will have to resubmit and upload a copy of the complete trust document.


To which I replied:

That’s not what the instructions say. Somebody up there needs to reinterpret what the forms tell you. I did get a reply from Tracy (I guessed at the email address), and she said the same thing.

There’s nothing in the wording that says anything about the date of the original trust submission. It says 24-months from the date of a prior approval.

FWIW…I’ve had three reversed in the past. Not even on the same day. Disapproved on a Sunday, Approved on a Monday…without me resubmitting or paying again.


And then she replied:

I apologize for the confusion surrounding this, but it is from the original prior approval (where the trust document was received initially). We cannot reverse e-form disapprovals.

Already resubmitted, with a copy of the trust. Going forward, I’ll just send the trust each time. It was just easier with paper forms to not print the whole thing. Also had Scott upload the trust to the two submitted about a month ago.

I emailed the examiner back with the new control number. I also included the info for the two new ones.

Best case scenario: all three get approved in the next 24 hours
Worst case: they end up disapproving the other two in another month or two, and then finally approve this first one sometime later as if it was a brand new submission.


Nothing like making super difficult and painful to exercise your constitutional right
 
The idea that disapproved eForms are over and done is why they claim to be able to process these in under 90 days. With paper forms it's fuzzy as you can contact people and fix things. It's also why there's a year backlog on them. It's approving forms and handling customer support for people who have issues with their forms. It does make that 90 days more nerve wracking though because it could end up starting all over again.
 
@JohnFreeman

Rugged has been good to me so far.

im happy with both the oculus and the mask. since the price is similar I’d go oculus to have the K option on a rifle. both are a bit heavy but the ease-of-cleaning for steel baffles to me makes the extra 2-3 oz worth it. I’ve also become partial to rugged as I find their fit/finish and overall feel top notch. The obsidian should include a takedown tool (bought an excellent aftermarket one from Hansohn bros), other than this no complaints.

my next rimfire can will likely be a TacSol Aeris or maybe bowers bitty. TBD. i just hate aluminum baffles.
 
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@JohnFreeman



im happy with both the oculus and the mask. since the price is similar I’d go oculus to have the K option on a rifle. both are a bit heavy but the ease-of-cleaning for steel baffles to me makes the extra 2-3 oz worth it. I’ve also become partial to rugged as I find their fit/finish and overall feel top notch. The obsidian should include a takedown tool (bought an excellent aftermarket one from Hansohn bros), other than this no complaints.

my next rimfire can will likely be a TacSol Aeris or maybe bowers bitty. TBD. i just hate aluminum baffles.
Suppressortools now has an all in one takedown tool for Rugged. I’ve got a couple for Rugged and other suppressors (they didn’t have the all in one when I bought them). These have all worked great for me.

 
Nothing yet on the other two. But I’ll take the small victories when I can.

165D1DE9-5D68-4EE4-BF31-F74798CEE722.jpeg
 
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