eForm1 SBR

wscato

wscato

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Wish me luck. I just submitted my first eForm1 SBR this afternoon. Followed the guides that I found and supplied all required info. Got the cover letter a little later and got my letter and prints mailed off today. Took advantage of my local Post Office being open on Sunday today. Surprised the PO was open last Sunday, this Sunday and the next.
 
Did you remember to mail the CLEO copy?
 
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Plan to do that on my way to work in the morning. Wanted to get the prints off as quick as I could since it is 10 business days and the PO is being stupid with deliveries. Sent the prints in a large flate rate priority. Do you ever include a cover letter with the CLEO docs or just send them?
 
I just send the form(s) in a basic envelope with a regular stamp.

FWIW...I’m not sure who you put down, but I send all mine to the head of the NCSHP.
 
wscato said:
I copied my last two approved Silencer Shop can purchase and sent mine to the Attorney General's office.
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Wait what ? Lol
 
You'll be fine.

I did mine a while back (hk sp5k)
I had mine back in a RIDICULOUS amount of days, like ten or something silly.

So what you got going on brother?
 
amnesia said:
Wait what ? Lol
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Yep, the attorney general qualifies. All mine done by Silencer Shop went to the AG. All were approved without issue. I've split my form 1s up between the AG and my local sheriff. No sense in sending them all the same place in case someone is keeping (but not sharing) records.
 
Landric said:
Yep, the attorney general qualifies. All mine done by Silencer Shop went to the AG. All were approved without issue. I've split my form 1s up between the AG and my local sheriff. No sense in sending them all the same place in case someone is keeping (but not sharing) records.
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I figured the AG qualifies but haven’t seen folks send it there.
 
My next one I will probably send to the NCSHP to mix it up. I'm doing a HK USC to UMP conversion right now. Tom Bostic did the conversion for me.
 
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amnesia said:
I figured the AG qualifies but haven’t seen folks send it there.
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SS does in each state. Just easier for them to use state-level and the AG is easy to find.

But no way I’d send it to our current AG or the previous one.

I really want to send it to one of qualifying judges/attorneys...and hope they send it back asking what it’s for. At that point, you’ve notified and it’s done. 😎
 
BigWaylon said:
SS does in each state. Just easier for them to use state-level and the AG is easy to find.

But no way I’d send it to our current AG or the previous one.

I really want to send it to one of qualifying judges/attorneys...and hope they send it back asking what it’s for. At that point, you’ve notified and it’s done. 😎
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Too late for this one and they already know about two cans. If you don't mind, PM the NCSHP contact info you use and when I do my next one in January I will use that.
 
Pink_Vapor said:
What's this and why?
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Seriously? Or sarcasm?

If serious...that’s the process. You used to have to get “permission” first by getting a signature. Now you just send them a notification. There are instructions on the form for them to call the ATF if there’s any know reason you wouldn’t qualify to own and NFA firearm.
 
BigWaylon said:
Seriously? Or sarcasm?

If serious...that’s the process. You used to have to get “permission” first by getting a signature. Now you just send them a notification. There are instructions on the form for them to call the ATF if there’s any know reason you wouldn’t qualify to own and NFA firearm.
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It was serious, I did a form 1 many moons ago. Was this added when they started requiring the prints, or been the case for quite a while?
 
Pink_Vapor said:
It was serious, I did a form 1 many moons ago. Was this added when they started requiring the prints, or been the case for quite a while?
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Prior to 41F, individuals had to do prints, photos and CLEO signature. Entities had to do none of it.

Now everybody has to do print & photos. It changed from CLEO Certification to CLEO Notification, and applies to individuals and every responsible of an entity.
 
Me. said:
What do y’all do for photos? Selfies and prints from the store? Something better?
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For eforms, take a selfie and upload it. It’s a passport-style photo, not an actual photo. For example:
- no requirement for a blank background
- no requirement for it to be printed on photo paper
- not even a requirement for it to be in color

the examiners don’t even know the rules on that...as I know a dealer (out of state) that’s argued the B&W photo issue with them before

You can use one of the passport photo apps to take the pic. The one I use gives you a head & shoulders outline to help you line it up. I’ve actually used it before to take my son’s pictures for his passport.

You can get six of the pics on a standard 4x6 print at your local store for 29¢ or whatever the current rate is, if you want real photos.

Or you can print them off at home on photo paper. Or print them on regular printer paper and run a piece of clear packing tape across them

I actually print mine directly onto the paper form. I’ve done that for a couple people here as well (they send me a pic, and I put it on the form and send it back). You can do it yourself using basic Adobe Reader, but I offered to help them out and did it.
 
As an example to show you don’t need a plain background, this is the pic THSF has saved and is on some of my previous forms. Lots of people here have the same background. (Face is blurred because I edited it before I put it on ARF during a similar discussion)

8959B6CF-EB14-42BC-8B14-B59120AFD998.jpeg
 
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Oh, and BTW...if you’re using EForms as an entity, you have to fill out a 5320.23 for each RP, print them out, sign them, and scan them. But you don’t have to put a pic on them like with a paper form. You can upload the pic into EForms instead.
 
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Me. said:
My plan is to just do it as an individual.
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I would try to convince you to do otherwise, but in the end it’s obviously up to you.
 
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BigWaylon said:
Prior to 41F, individuals had to do prints, photos and CLEO signature. Entities had to do none of it.

Now everybody has to do print & photos. It changed from CLEO Certification to CLEO Notification, and applies to individuals and every responsible of an entity.
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*Whew!* Mine was done as an entity prior to 41F.
 
Me. said:
This may be thread hijacking... but why bother with a trust these days?

Keeping this in mind... I have no one I would leave this gun to in the case of my death. I have no one I'd share it with, and I don't have any intention of traveling out of state with it.

I feel like (though have done little research) the use of a trust was to simplify things. But now the use of a trust adds complexity for the individual.
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Interested in this as well because honestly if anything ever happened to me there is a note in my safe for my wife to contact @TARHEELSTATE and have him broker everything.
 
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Me. said:
This may be thread hijacking... but why bother with a trust these days?

Keeping this in mind... I have no one I would leave this gun to in the case of my death. I have no one I'd share it with, and I don't have any intention of traveling out of state with it.

I feel like (though have done little research) the use of a trust was to simplify things. But now the use of a trust adds complexity for the individual.
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That’s your situation today. What about tomorrow? Next month? Next year? (Although I’m not sure what the not traveling out of state part has to do with anything)

Filing as an individual is roughly the same effort as filing as a single person entity. For the entity, it’s the same info, just split across two forms...neither of which are complicated.

When you file as an individual, you’re set. There’s zero options for flexibility in the future...which is not the case for an entity. There are also privacy benefits with an entity that you don’t have as an individual.

Some people aren’t aware of this, which is why “gun trust lawyers” make a killing off some people...but there’s not really any such thing as a gun trust. There are simply trusts that have guns as property, and usually have way too much extra verbiage that doesn’t impact anything to do with the laws that already exist. Plus, if you die your NFA firearms aren’t confiscated by the ATF. They transfer tax free (using a Form 5) to your legal heir.

I just like to know I have options.
 
Me. said:
Thanks. I haven't looked into a "Single person entity". I just thought it was "trust" or "individual".

Again, I appreciate your helpfulness and understanding of the subject.
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Trust with you as the only trustee = single person entity. It’s the driving force behind the whole Single Shot Trust trend.
 
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I went through this a while ago and chose to creat a Trust. For now, I am the sole RP. However, that will change as life progresses.

One thing to keep in mind... if you file as an individual now and want to convert over to a Trust, you’ll have to pay $200 / stamp to move each item into that Trust. It’s considered a transfer of ownership.
 
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I used to live in an area where the sheriff absolutely refused to sign off on individual transfers. 25+ years ago I did corporate and even set up non profit corporation to buy them. Then some genius came up with another way to bypass the signoff or at least they recognized it had been there all along and the trust route became popular. Then 41P came along and the whole signoff thing became a thing if the past and individual transfers became easier in many ways than trusts . Its super easy to do an individual efile now. I would never , ever, ever let anyone use my NFA stuff when I'm not around. Call me selfish. To be honest I dont care what happens to anything I own after I die although I do have a will and the individual stuff does transfer on a form 5 tax free. I know that but my wife is still going to sell all my crap at a garage sale the day after I die no matter whats in the will or the trusts.
 
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wscato said:
I copied my last two approved Silencer Shop can purchase and sent mine to the Attorney General's office.
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Well I got all of my paperwork back from the AG General Office today. It came with a cover letter stating that I can not submitt my application to them to build a SBR and that they could not tell me how to build a SBR or offer any legal advice around such information. I should check the DOJ website to see who handles gun permits in my area and submit this application to them. Signed by a lady that is a Legal Paralegal 2. I'm considering them notified.
 
wscato said:
Well I got all of my paperwork back from the AG General Office today. It came with a cover letter stating that I can not submitt my application to them to build a SBR and that they could not tell me how to build a SBR or offer any legal advice around such information. I should check the DOJ website to see who handles gun permits in my area and submit this application to them. Signed by a lady that is a Legal Paralegal 2. I'm considering them notified.
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Yep…you did your part!
 
I filled my 1st eform on June 11 and got approved on July 2. I'll admit that I was totally surprised when I got the approval email. I was ready for a 2-3 month wait. Going to do another in a week or two.
 
Yeah I got one back at 21 days a couple of days back. Its almost like theyre gearing up for a rush of SBR applications. Hmmm.
 

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wscato said:
Well I got all of my paperwork back from the AG General Office today. It came with a cover letter stating that I can not submitt my application to them to build a SBR and that they could not tell me how to build a SBR or offer any legal advice around such information. I should check the DOJ website to see who handles gun permits in my area and submit this application to them. Signed by a lady that is a Legal Paralegal 2. I'm considering them notified.
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You got the CLEO copy back that you sent to them? That's awesome. Better than being round-filed by them, since you actually have proof you sent it in.
 
I thought with trusts you didn’t have to submit prints every time. Just one and done. Is that false?
 
amnesia said:
Interested in this as well because honestly if anything ever happened to me there is a note in my safe for my wife to contact @TARHEELSTATE and have him broker everything.
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This is what I am thinking of doing too - put all the stamps and trust documents together in one big "in the event of my demise" envelope.

wired said:
I used to live in an area where the sheriff absolutely refused to sign off on individual transfers. 25+ years ago I did corporate and even set up non profit corporation to buy them.
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almost 15 years ago when I started, i submitted my request to transfer the 2 cans i had already paid for. the local chief of police sat on the application for a year and then retired. a couple months after that i followed up with the new chief who said he was all pro 2A and that he never got the paperwork, so i resubmitted. he sat on it another 6 months until the city attorney said they could not allow such a thing, to prevent crime, and for liability reasons.

I paid a lot of money for a trust a couple days after that, and had my forms submitted in less than a week. Local super pro-gun lawyer who takes up gun cases for cheap and is on cheap retainer with the local gun rights groups slapped my name and info on a trust template he had just for that purpose. But I'm still getting support from the attorney who wrote that trust, sometimes at like 3a.m. when i'm up at weird times and he's between his one or two short naps a night.

wscato said:
Yes.
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file it away for a laugh, along with my DISAPPROVED form 1 for a full auto on a trust (apparently just after the accidental short window for that closed), and my $5 aow that has a $200 stamp on it.
Just more examples of government functioning exactly as expected.
 
berf said:
I thought with trusts you didn’t have to submit prints every time. Just one and done. Is that false?
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that changed in 2016 with the 41F atf stuff.
before 41f, no prints and you could put as many people as you want on a trust with no extra trouble
after 41f, prints and photos for every responsible person on your trust, plus extra letters of notification to the cops for everybody, extra declaration that you're not prohibited, etc.

trusts went from being the easy way to the hard way, but still have a lot of flexibility and i'm happy to use mine.
 
DrScaryGuy said:
that changed in 2016 with the 41F atf stuff.
before 41f, no prints and you could put as many people as you want on a trust with no extra trouble
after 41f, prints and photos for every responsible person on your trust, plus extra letters of notification to the cops for everybody, extra declaration that you're not prohibited, etc.

trusts went from being the easy way to the hard way, but still have a lot of flexibility and i'm happy to use mine.
Click to expand...

Good to know. I have one but haven’t used it yet. Since nothing is in stock as far as SBR uppers I want.
 
berf said:
I thought with trusts you didn’t have to submit prints every time. Just one and done. Is that false?
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It was explained above, but I wanted to add a little more.

When 41F came out, a lot of online gun trust lawyers, as well as a lot of popular blogs, all wrote stories that would’ve led you to believe what you heard. But evidently they all had reading comprehension issues. Even the preliminary (41P) never mentioned that, and when the final (41F) version was released, it hadn’t been added.

What is in there is a 24-month exemption for providing a copy of the entity documentation. So the trust documents, or LLC/corp papers, etc. You have 24 months from the approval date of one form to the submission date of the next form. If you submit in that window, you can submit a signed letter (no forms exists) that says nothing has changed since the previous approval. I’ve done it several times…works just fine. But prints and photos are required with every submission.

That’s where the misinformation was created.

…and there’s nothing really “hard” about doing it either way. ;)
 
Good to know. I’m hoping to get the AR pistol I want, so I can use it while filling out a form1 to throw a real stock on it. Thanks for the information 🙏🏻
 
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