Everyone stay safe tomorrow

[Darkhorse]

I believe you missed the whole meaning of that passage. Here’s “The Message” version and it explains a little better than NIV or KJV.

Luke‬ ‭22‬:‭31‬-‭38‬
““Simon, stay on your toes. Satan has tried his best to separate all of you from me, like chaff from wheat. Simon, I’ve prayed for you in particular that you not give in or give out. When you have come through the time of testing, turn to your companions and give them a fresh start.” Peter said, “Master, I’m ready for anything with you. I’d go to jail for you. I’d die for you!” Jesus said, “I’m sorry to have to tell you this, Peter, but before the rooster crows you will have three times denied that you know me.” Then Jesus said, “When I sent you out and told you to travel light, to take only the bare necessities, did you get along all right?” “Certainly,” they said, “we got along just fine.” He said, “This is different. Get ready for trouble. Look to what you’ll need; there are difficult times ahead. Pawn your coat and get a sword. What was written in Scripture, ‘He was lumped in with the criminals,’ gets its final meaning in me. Everything written about me is now coming to a conclusion.” They said, “Look, Master, two swords!” But he said, “Enough of that; no more sword talk!””
‭

He is telling them that it’s easy while He(Jesus) is with them. They’ve had Jesus with them for a while now and it’s been pretty easy compared to what is coming and Him dying, raising to life then going to Heaven with the Father. Then times will be tougher and they’ll need to be prepared. Not with a literal sword but with the sword of God(God’s word/Spirit). He’s not telling them that 2 swords is enough. He means that’s enough talking about swords. They didn’t get it.

Matthew 10:34 says “Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword.”
Sword meaning a weapon with divides and severs. The Word of God! Not a piece of metal.
Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is alive and powerful. It is sharper than the sharpest two-edged sword, cutting between soul and spirit, between joint and marrow. It exposes our innermost thoughts and desires.

There will be conflict between good and evil, light and darkness, the children of God (believers of Christ) and the children of the devil (those who refuse Christ). We should seek to be at piece with all people but Jesus warned us that following Him means that we will be hated for His sake. Those who reject Him, will hate His followers as well. John 15:18.

I struggle a lot with carrying a gun. A few years ago I was put in charge of our security team at church. It didn’t take long and I was convicted. I was idolizing my carry gun more than God. I was trusting it to save me and my family more than I was trusting God to. I found myself and others on the team profiling people when they walk through the doors and that is not how Jesus taught us to act. He welcomes everyone. He loves everyone. He hates the sin but still loves the person. The security team was quickly dismantled and later revised to more of a welcome team. I’m not saying we don’t have a some security but we will not go against God’s word. We won’t profile/ judge someone. Most of what we watch out for is divorce situations, abuse and we currently have to watch out for a certain stalker. As a “welcome team” we meet and great everyone that walks in. If they are new then we trying to find out more about them and welcome them.

No he actually has it correct. Although I understand your point and somewhat agree with it but the thing is they were thieves and bandits in the mountains through which they traveled and the did need actual swords for SD.

 

[Armed4defense]

Threads certainly can go off in different directions around here. Not necessarily a bad thing -as in this case -but still.

 

[rdinatal]

But I will say that the Muslim religion is supposed to be a religion of peace and prosperity in spirit but is in practice and reality the most violent and destructive religion on the planet.

After looking at the events happening around the world over the last few weeks...

Yeah, they aren't the goods being sold.

 

[Crankbait]

No he actually has it correct. Although I understand your point and somewhat agree with it but the thing is they were thieves and bandits in the mountains through which they traveled and the did need actual swords for SD.

He is not talking about thieves and bandits. He is taking about arming oneself with the “sword of the spirit”. The disciples were about to be alone without Jesus physically with them and they needed to trust in God for ALL their needs. They were about to embark on their journey to starting the “Church” and the Spirit of God was going to be with them.

I’m not saying He doesn’t want us to protect ourselves from thieves and bandits but that is probably the last thing on their mind at this point. They are going to preach God’s Word to a world that just murdered His Son. They were about to be persecuted, thrown in jail, beheaded, burned, beat, and even Peter was crucified upside down because he didn’t feel worthy to die the same way Jesus did. If Jesus told them to carry a sword, why don’t we hear stories of them fighting their way out of it? Because that wasn’t God’s plan.

 

[Darkhorse]

He is not talking about thieves and bandits. He is taking about arming oneself with the “sword of the spirit”. The disciples were about to be alone without Jesus physically with them and they needed to trust in God for ALL their needs. They were about to embark on their journey to starting the “Church” and the Spirit of God was going to be with them.

I’m not saying He doesn’t want us to protect ourselves from thieves and bandits but that is probably the last thing on their mind at this point. They are going to preach God’s Word to a world that just murdered His Son. They were about to be persecuted, thrown in jail, beheaded, burned, beat, and even Peter was crucified upside down because we didn’t feel worthy to does the same way Jesus did. If Jesus told them to carry a sword, why don’t we hear stories of them fighting their way out of it? Because that wasn’t God’s plan.

I stand corrected. Contrary to what I have always been taught when you study it for your self …..

 

[Ampatriot]

I believe you missed the whole meaning of that passage. Here’s “The Message” version and it explains a little better than NIV or KJV.

Luke‬ ‭22‬:‭31‬-‭38‬
““Simon, stay on your toes. Satan has tried his best to separate all of you from me, like chaff from wheat. Simon, I’ve prayed for you in particular that you not give in or give out. When you have come through the time of testing, turn to your companions and give them a fresh start.” Peter said, “Master, I’m ready for anything with you. I’d go to jail for you. I’d die for you!” Jesus said, “I’m sorry to have to tell you this, Peter, but before the rooster crows you will have three times denied that you know me.” Then Jesus said, “When I sent you out and told you to travel light, to take only the bare necessities, did you get along all right?” “Certainly,” they said, “we got along just fine.” He said, “This is different. Get ready for trouble. Look to what you’ll need; there are difficult times ahead. Pawn your coat and get a sword. What was written in Scripture, ‘He was lumped in with the criminals,’ gets its final meaning in me. Everything written about me is now coming to a conclusion.” They said, “Look, Master, two swords!” But he said, “Enough of that; no more sword talk!””
‭

He is telling them that it’s easy while He(Jesus) is with them. They’ve had Jesus with them for a while now and it’s been pretty easy compared to what is coming and Him dying, raising to life then going to Heaven with the Father. Then times will be tougher and they’ll need to be prepared. Not with a literal sword but with the sword of God(God’s word/Spirit). He’s not telling them that 2 swords is enough. He means that’s enough talking about swords. They didn’t get it.

Matthew 10:34 says “Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword.”
Sword meaning a weapon with divides and severs. The Word of God! Not a piece of metal.
Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is alive and powerful. It is sharper than the sharpest two-edged sword, cutting between soul and spirit, between joint and marrow. It exposes our innermost thoughts and desires.

There will be conflict between good and evil, light and darkness, the children of God (believers of Christ) and the children of the devil (those who refuse Christ). We should seek to be at piece with all people but Jesus warned us that following Him means that we will be hated for His sake. Those who reject Him, will hate His followers as well. John 15:18.

I struggle a lot with carrying a gun. A few years ago I was put in charge of our security team at church. It didn’t take long and I was convicted. I was idolizing my carry gun more than God. I was trusting it to save me and my family more than I was trusting God to. I found myself and others on the team profiling people when they walk through the doors and that is not how Jesus taught us to act. He welcomes everyone. He loves everyone. He hates the sin but still loves the person. The security team was quickly dismantled and later revised to more of a welcome team. I’m not saying we don’t have a some security but we will not go against God’s word. We won’t profile/ judge someone. Most of what we watch out for is divorce situations, abuse and we currently have to watch out for a certain stalker. As a “welcome team” we meet and great everyone that walks in. If they are new then we trying to find out more about them and welcome them.

I agree with you on most of your interpretation of the scriptures you posted but you can't forget about the other scriptures that also have Abraham, David, Saul and others following the God's orders to destroy his enemy's and build and defend his kingdom and the holy land with the ark of the covenant and the swords of war. I definitely agree that the word of God is sharper and stronger than anything we have as a weapon of arms. But another very destructive weapon is the twisting and manipulation of the word of God that is prominent today and is the very foundation of the evil in the world. So yes you have to fight with the true word of God against the false Prophets but you will also have to fight with the sword of man to protect yourself and the word of God from defilers and the scriptures you posted said let their be no mor" talk" of swords, not let their be "no more" swords. Jesus was the Lamb of God at this time and knew he had to die for our sins to be forgiven on the first coming of our Messiah. But the second coming of our Messiah Jesus Christ will be a warrior King as a Lion from the Lamb with blood covered garment stained with the blood of his enemies and will be on a mount in the valley of the final battle against the unholy Trinity, the false Prophet, Antichrist, and Satan and his armies of followers and Jesus Christ will be armed with the word of God that will come from his mouth as a sword and with one breath the armies of the enemies of God are destroyed and the beast is chained for 1000years and the Antichrist and false Prophet are thrown in the lake of fire for eternity and then Jesus will rule as king of all for that 1000 years until the beast tries to tempt man again at which he will be thrown in the lake of fire to join the antichrist and false prophet. I know that is not word for word the way it's written in the scriptures but you get what I'm saying I hope. So I believe we are supposed to keep the word of God with no doubt, but also keep your sword ready to protect your life and family when attack and the scriptures in Exodus about the difference between killing and murdering should make this clear with protecting your life by killing us not murder and you will have to have a weapon to fight off attackers with weapons. If you know that you will be killed by someone if you don't act , then by scripture wouldn't that be suicide or self murder?

 

[Ampatriot]

He is not talking about thieves and bandits. He is taking about arming oneself with the “sword of the spirit”. The disciples were about to be alone without Jesus physically with them and they needed to trust in God for ALL their needs. They were about to embark on their journey to starting the “Church” and the Spirit of God was going to be with them.

I’m not saying He doesn’t want us to protect ourselves from thieves and bandits but that is probably the last thing on their mind at this point. They are going to preach God’s Word to a world that just murdered His Son. They were about to be persecuted, thrown in jail, beheaded, burned, beat, and even Peter was crucified upside down because we didn’t feel worthy to does the same way Jesus did. If Jesus told them to carry a sword, why don’t we hear stories of them fighting their way out of it? Because that wasn’t God’s plan.

I understand what you are saying about the last supper and Jesus having explained the meaning of why he was not wanting to hear about swords and fighting the Romans because he knew this has to happen. But there's many of stories in the Bible of Prophets using swords and fighting the enemy of God with real physical swords and shields. You just need to understand which scripture and story you are reading in the Bible to know the difference between the sword of God/word of God and the swords of man ordered to fight from the word of God. Interpretation is key. But you are very knowledgeable in this though I will definitely give you that and I enjoy debating this with you and it's good to do this to get a better understanding of everything.

 

[Bigjim]

Happy I built me another ar.

 

[Crankbait]

I agree with you on most of your interpretation of the scriptures you posted but you can't forget about the other scriptures that also have Abraham, David, Saul and others following the God's orders to destroy his enemy's and build and defend his kingdom and the holy land with the ark of the covenant and the swords of war. I definitely agree that the word of God is sharper and stronger than anything we have as a weapon of arms. But another very destructive weapon is the twisting and manipulation of the word of God that is prominent today and is the very foundation of the evil in the world. So yes you have to fight with the true word of God against the false Prophets but you will also have to fight with the sword of man to protect yourself and the word of God from defilers and the scriptures you posted said let their be no mor" talk" of swords, not let their be "no more" swords. Jesus was the Lamb of God at this time and knew he had to die for our sins to be forgiven on the first coming of our Messiah. But the second coming of our Messiah Jesus Christ will be a warrior King as a Lion from the Lamb with blood covered garment stained with the blood of his enemies and will be on a mount in the valley of the final battle against the unholy Trinity, the false Prophet, Antichrist, and Satan and his armies of followers and Jesus Christ will be armed with the word of God that will come from his mouth as a sword and with one breath the armies of the enemies of God are destroyed and the beast is chained for 1000years and the Antichrist and false Prophet are thrown in the lake of fire for eternity and then Jesus will rule as king of all for that 1000 years until the beast tries to tempt man again at which he will be thrown in the lake of fire to join the antichrist and false prophet. I know that is not word for word the way it's written in the scriptures but you get what I'm saying I hope. So I believe we are supposed to keep the word of God with no doubt, but also keep your sword ready to protect your life and family when attack and the scriptures in Exodus about the difference between killing and murdering should make this clear with protecting your life by killing us not murder and you will have to have a weapon to fight off attackers with weapons. If you know that you will be killed by someone if you don't act , then by scripture wouldn't that be suicide or self murder?

I understand what you are saying about the last supper and Jesus having explained the meaning of why he was not wanting to hear about swords and fighting the Romans because he knew this has to happen. But there's many of stories in the Bible of Prophets using swords and fighting the enemy of God with real physical swords and shields. You just need to understand which scripture and story you are reading in the Bible to know the difference between the sword of God/word of God and the swords of man ordered to fight from the word of God. Interpretation is key. But you are very knowledgeable in this though I will definitely give you that and I enjoy debating this with you and it's good to do this to get a better understanding of everything.

I wouldn’t call it debating but discussing it a little differently. It’s funny how one can read different passages and God will reveal himself in a new way. There are some things in the Bible that I don’t think we will fully understand until we are kneeled before him. I have so many questions. Haha. And even when we do get to Heaven, I don’t believe we will care about those details.

The key difference in the Old Testament verses the New Testament is in the Old Testament they were under the law and the New Testament we are under grace. Every one that you mentioned in the Old Testament was doing what God willed.

If you know that you will be killed by someone if you don't act , then by scripture wouldn't that be suicide or self murder?

Did Jesus commit suicide/self murder then? Jesus could have commanded a legion of angels but He chose not to because that wasn’t the will of the Father.

 

[Shady Grady]

...and got scolded with strong words for it.

That seems more about accepting what had to happen vs a rebuke for carrying a sword or self defense to me.

John 18:11
Then said Jesus unto Peter, Put up thy sword into the sheath: the cup which my Father hath given me, shall I not drink it?

 

[MacEntyre]

incorrect. they were scolded for using the swords before it was necessary, and trying to supersede the plan of God.

Yes, but I was not incorrect, and not contradicting your point... you said they used the sword to cut off an ear, and I said they got scolded with strong words for it. I didn't say they were scolded for having swords.

Many faithful people (generally not CFF people) are not able to reconcile self defense. I haven't figured out how to reach them, so I just keep an eye on the ones I know.

 

[Downeast]

The older I get the less religious I become. I'll probably die an atheist.

 

[Planet24]

Well..... you learn something every day.

There is a store down near Hampstead some place called The Cuntry store. I been meaning to stop.

 

[confused]

The older I get the less religious I become. I'll probably die an atheist.

My faith has actually strengthened. Although the field of vision has become much narrower for me.

 

[fieldgrade]

The older I get the less religious I become. I'll probably die an atheist.

Actual faith and religion might intersect, but you can have one without the other.

You might lose your religion, but true faith is like a Roach Motel. It checks in, but it never truly checks out.

 

[fieldgrade]

And why is this still in the Forum Related section of the forum?

 

[Shady Grady]

And why is this still in the Forum Related section of the forum?

There were too many sub-forum requests so now everything is gonna be under Site (Forum) Related out of spite.

 

[Ampatriot]

I wouldn’t call it debating but discussing it a little differently. It’s funny how one can read different passages and God will reveal himself in a new way. There are some things in the Bible that I don’t think we will fully understand until we are kneeled before him. I have so many questions. Haha. And even when we do get to Heaven, I don’t believe we will care about those details.

The key difference in the Old Testament verses the New Testament is in the Old Testament they were under the law and the New Testament we are under grace. Every one that you mentioned in the Old Testament was doing what God willed.




Did Jesus commit suicide/self murder then? Jesus could have commanded a legion of angels but He chose not to because that wasn’t the will of the Father.

I see what you are talking about and yes I agree that I should have said discussing instead of debating lol. There's no debating because we both believe in the same faith and scriptures.

As for did Jesus commit suicide, I say in no way shape or form. Is it suicide to jump in front of a bullet to save someone's life? I don't think so because a sacrifice is not suicide but a selfless act to lay down your life in sacrifice for another to live. Jesus sacrificed himself to save our eternal souls to have eternal life in heaven with the Father and Creator and Jesus Christ. Without his sacrifice we would all be damned for eternity which is far worse than death, so his sacrifice was the most selfless act of love and devotion that could ever be done. So I believe if you die to save another, you sacrificed your life for another life and is done for love and devotion to Good. If you killed yourself because you lost your way or something else and it was because you are interested a dark place and lost faith by believing death is better than the gift of life God blessed us with. Then that is not a selfless act, but a selfish act of the unfaithful and is from evil, not good.