Explain to me the difference in lowers

jmccracken1214

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Im not talking about the custom lowers like the BDR-15's and the spikes that have a skull on the mag well...

Im talking a standard anderson stripped lower that's usually $40-$50 compared to a standard spikes lower thats $100. Goes for numerous brands.

Im going to build yet another AR and i see people selling high dollar AR's that can be built with dif. brand parts for half the cost and I dont understand... if I get a PSA or a Anderson receiver set, put a good (not daniel def) but good bolt, good trigger, good barrel on it.. is it any less reliable than if I used all BCM and DD parts? Obviously its not worth as much (for some reason)..

Same with handguards. Ive bought 2 free float alum. handguards off ebaty for under $60 for my last two builds and have had no issues.. they work great... is there any benefit to buying a Gieselle handguard?
 
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Lewis Machine & Tool makes: http://www.lewismachine.net/
LMT
Lauer
DS Arms
PWA
Eagle
Armalite
Knights Armament
Barrett

Continental Machine Tool makes: http://www.continentalmachinetool.com/
Stag
Rock River Arms
High Standard
Noveske
Century (New)
Global Tactical
CLE
S&W
MGI
Wilson Tactical
Grenadier Precision
Colt

LAR Manufacturing makes: http://www.larmanufacturing.com/web/guest;jsessionid=1E4EFAE2119A0F94636DDF5DCF50E6BD
LAR
Bushmaster
Ameetec
DPMS
CMMG
Double Star
Fulton Armory
Spike's Tactical

JVP makes: http://jvprecision.net/
Double Star
LRB
Charles Daly

Mega Machine Shop makes: http://www.megamachineshop.com/
Mega
GSE
Dalphon
POF
Alexander Arms
War Sport
Legion

Olympic makes:
Olympic
SGW
Tromix
Palmetto (PSA)
Dalphon
Frankford
Century (Old)

Sun Devil makes:
Sun Devil

Superior makes: http://www.superiorarms.com/
Superior
Lauer (New)

Aero Precision makes:
Aero Precision
Surplus Ammo & Arms

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Things change over time.
 
The important parts for an accurate/ reliable AR:

Barrel, BCG, Gas Block, Trigger Group

What are you getting with preimium lower / Upper receivers are the fit and finish. If it's a complete lower, then the parts used are going to be a better quality if buying from Larue or another high end builder.

You could build a cheap accurate AR with a PSA upper / lower as long as you're using a quality barrel and BCG.

Hand guards, as long as it free floated and doesn't flex when you preload the bipod, you can get away with cheaper, but it's probably heavier material.

Another thing to consider with ARs, is that if you're shooting milsurp type ammo, you're not going to get sub MOA groups, it's 3 MOA ammo.
 
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The "Fit and Finish" of the lowers changes after they leave the factory, the polishing and refinement of the work done on them, and the coating they receive.
 
Wow I just learned a lot after stumbling on this thread. I have several AR's, mostly PSA uppers and lowers that I pinned together and added Geissele triggers . Very serviceable. I have a S&W Performance Center AR that has the thinnest, flexiest lower of any I have every seen. Gun is accurate enough with handloads to ring steel at 800 yds but I am skeptical about the longevity of that lower. I also have a Sig 516 piston gun that is a good shooter as well. Will shoot sub moa handloads with 55g to 77g bullets. Really neat gun. I did not see Sig or Anderson in the list of OEM mfrs.
 
Your paying for fit finish and roll mark . With rails your paying for fit, finish, low weight and tight lockup with the receiver. Geissle rails are very nice and lock up very tight.
 
Wow I just learned a lot after stumbling on this thread. I have several AR's, mostly PSA uppers and lowers that I pinned together and added Geissele triggers . Very serviceable. I have a S&W Performance Center AR that has the thinnest, flexiest lower of any I have every seen. Gun is accurate enough with handloads to ring steel at 800 yds but I am skeptical about the longevity of that lower. I also have a Sig 516 piston gun that is a good shooter as well. Will shoot sub moa handloads with 55g to 77g bullets. Really neat gun. I did not see Sig or Anderson in the list of OEM mfrs.

It's not a complete list, it's a list I developed from around the web a couple years ago
 
...and whether they are made from a casting, forging, or from billet. The cost of manufacturing goes up in the list respectively.

I'm not going to try and argue the merits of one over the other. My first job out of college was working for an engineering and software company that designed and analyzed parts made in each method. Contrary to what others tell you there IS a difference.

Casting the molten aluminum is poured into a cast of the part and then machined to final part.

Forging the aluminum is essentially hammered into a die for the rough shape and then machined to final part.

Billet is taking a block of solid aluminum and machining the entire process to final part.
 
...and whether they are made from a casting, forging, or from billet. The cost of manufacturing goes up in the list respectively.

I'm not going to try and argue the merits of one over the other. My first job out of college was working for an engineering and software company that designed and analyzed parts made in each method. Contrary to what others tell you there IS a difference.

Casting the molten aluminum is poured into a cast of the part and then machined to final part.

Forging the aluminum is essentially hammered into a die for the rough shape and then machined to final part.

Billet is taking a block of solid aluminum and machining the entire process to final part.

With what you stated, im assuming forged is better than casting?
 
That is what the experts say...and better than billet for strength.

Of an equal thickness and material, I am sure. But billet lowers are usually beefed up in certain places to prevent any issues, and I think if they were failing left and right, they wouldn't be as prevalent on the market
 
Of an equal thickness and material, I am sure. But billet lowers are usually beefed up in certain places to prevent any issues, and I think if they were failing left and right, they wouldn't be as prevalent on the market

No one said anything about failures. But you can only "beef" up and still be in spec. It's like saying a 4x6 is better than 2x4 to build a wall in your house...well yeah, but it isn't code.

Forged is better because of the metallurgy going on, the grains in the part aligned and that makes them stronger. Either way, the part shouldn't fail regardless of what method.
 
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Olympic makes:
Olympic
SGW
Tromix
Palmetto (PSA)
Dalphon
Frankford
Century (Old)


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Things change over time.

This chart looks very out of date considering Olympic went out of business in early 2017. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olympic_Arms

OEMs change constantly so it is really hard to keep up with who is really supplying who so much so I stopped trying to figure it out long ago.

The important parts for an accurate/ reliable AR:

Barrel, BCG, Gas Block, Trigger Group

What are you getting with preimium lower / Upper receivers are the fit and finish. If it's a complete lower, then the parts used are going to be a better quality if buying from Larue or another high end builder.

You could build a cheap accurate AR with a PSA upper / lower as long as you're using a quality barrel and BCG.

Hand guards, as long as it free floated and doesn't flex when you preload the bipod, you can get away with cheaper, but it's probably heavier material.

Another thing to consider with ARs, is that if you're shooting milsurp type ammo, you're not going to get sub MOA groups, it's 3 MOA ammo.

This is a much more informative post. There are a lot of real pearls of wisdom in this one. I will add a few things. People get really hung up on what is "the best". When you move up the food chain in AR15 lower and most other parts what you are getting for your extra $$$ is fit and finish of the final product. For example I have never picked up an Anderson Lower and not found what BCM, Noveske or even S&W would consider a blemish. They are not defective but show tooling marks and nicks etc.... They are on the low end of fit and finish of AR15 lowers but you can get them on sale for $30. That said for the most part they work as well as any other lower they are just not a pretty.

One of the big parts that the OP is missing is that building an accurate rifle is more than just assembling parts from a kit. When you buy complete uppers or complete rifles from top tier manufacturers that is what you are paying for as much as you are paying for the parts. You are paying for a name brand and the quality control and expertise that went into building that rifle. This is not to say you can't make a accurate rifle out of lower end parts. When someone does their own build from premium parts you don't really know if they had the expertise to put the rifle together.

IMHO your budget and realistic intended use of the rifle should drive your decisions in terms of the base platform, gear and accessories. Be realistic on what you are going to do with your rifle. If you are going to shoot less than 500 rounds a year what advantage are you gaining from a billet lower? You are never going to shoot a forged alum lower to failure. Honestly your needs do not demand the highest level of gear. If you are an "operator" in foreign lands filled with sand then your needs might be different and certainly more demanding. For me I am looking for reliability and quality in my rifles. As with almost everything there are laws of diminishing returns in the AR15s. Once you get past a certain point you are paying a lot more $$$ for very minor differences.

I am a minute of man shooter in the AR15 world. I am not a go out to the 300 yard range shoot off a rest and make tiny little groups kind of guy. I am a standing from the shoulder hitting man sized targets at 10, 15, 25, 50, 100 and 150 yards with varying levels of speed. What I really want is reliability when it counts. I want a gun that will be able to do this in a harsh environment if called upon not just on a square range on a nice sunny day. I buy gear that meets that need. So know your need and buy gear accordingly.

As MadMardigan pointed out ammo will make a huge difference. Most plinking ammo which is what most people shoot will give you on avg 3" MOA at 100 yards in most rifles. Some rounds will get better results with some ammo. You have to shoot enough stuff to know what your rifle likes. Just because Wolf Gold shoots 1" groups in my Colt does not mean it will shoot 1" groups in your PSA or BCM.

The Bolt and the barrel matter IMHO a lot more than the lower. For 99% of people if the lower is made to the right spec it will work as well as any other. Some will have a prettier finish and a cooler logo but functionally IMHO will be the same. YMMV
 
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@wvsig

I made that list in 2014, but as my not said, things change over time lol. But I think it makes a good point how many manufacturers source out to the same machining company.
 
@wvsig

I made that list in 2014, but as my not said, things change over time lol. But I think it makes a good point how many manufacturers source out to the same machining company.

I agree 100%. There are really only a handful of people making lowers and the majority of AR15 manufacturers are outsourcing them to someone.
 
"This chart looks very out of date consideringOlympic went out of business in early 2017."

According Oly's website they are still in business but looking for an investor or buyer.
 
"This chart looks very out of date consideringOlympic went out of business in early 2017."

According Oly's website they are still in business but looking for an investor or buyer.

Interesting. I just remember their announcement from early this year. With the state of the AR15 I have a hard time believing they are going to survive.
 
I was recently told by a FFL friend that PSA is now manufacturing their nitride barrels, and lowers in house. Has anyone else heard this?
 
The important parts for an accurate/ reliable AR:

Barrel, BCG, Gas Block, Trigger Group

Would also add that the fitment of the barrel extension to the upper receiver is crucial as well. Take a nice in spec barrel and mate it with a sloppy upper and accuracy can suffer.

The tightest uppers I have found to date are BCM4s. Most applications require barrel in the freezer and a heat gun on the receiver to get it to seat and its still tight.

You can get their blem'd complete uppers (used several, cant ever find the blem) for $79.
 
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