Failure to extract, rim ripped off case

Timfoilhat

Timfoilhat

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Took my new poodle shooter out to the range to day to sight in and break in with some Norma 5.56 SS109.
Case didn't extract after firing. Rim is ripped off the case. Case has slight bulge 3/4 of the way down. Factory loaded Norma SS109. Gun has a .233 Wylde chamber.

Not sure what to make of it. New gun. Happened as like the 110th round fired. First 70 were slow fire. Then I ripped off 40 rounds fast to see if it would malfunction when hot. Last round in the magazine in that string was the one that failed to extract.

Don't want that to happen again, but not sure what to blame.

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Looks like case head separation early stages. Brass looks cracked at both ends. It also has a crack going from head to mouth with a slight bulge. That brass could have expanded and got stuck.
There is also indications of a rough chamber. If you magnify the image you can see what looks like rings around the case near the crack.
 
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JBoyette said:
What barrel is on the rifle?
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Not trying to be a smarty pants...umm, we're somewhere between "I don't know, the one it came with" and "it's proprietary to the upper." Marketing materials say "The match grade 41v50 barrel has a 1-8 twist, and is available in 16 or 13.9 inch length"
 
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Is this mark from you trying to extract with a knife or tool?

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So it was already out of the chamber that far when you tried to extract? What manufacturer and do you know if it has a full auto BCG or semi-auto style?
 
Take more pictures of the case and post them. Make sure to post one of the head stamp
 
Agreed but it does happen and I’ve seen it happen. The one I witnessed the case was in worse shape.
 
Photos as requested. first several are the "bad" one. The photo of four is a random sample of rounds that were fired just previous to the stuck one.

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I think the lengthwise scratch is the bolt running over the round in the magazine.
 
do you mind sharing the specs on the upper (specifically barrel/bcg) so we have more background? also, where is your brass ejecting? what loads did it shoot without a hiccup?

my first thought would be that the weapon was likely extracting before the case had adequately depressurized. the brass has some elasticity and usually has time to stretch to fill the chamber and then slightly retract prior to extraction. This is more pronounced when shooting with a light buffer, weak (old) buffer spring, oversized gas port, shorter gas tube (carbine/pistol) higher pressure ammo. if you weren’t consistently having issues this may only show up when combined with a dirty chamber. you should also visually check for any burrs or rough spots in the chamber, and it may be that the headspace is a little short as well. The fact that the case was destroyed suggests that your extractor has good purchase and is an unlikely source of your problem.

things to try: check headspace if you’re able to, scrub the chamber really well with a chamber brush and some CLP or degreaser, visually inspect chamber after cleaning, heavily lubricate the action, try a heavier buffer or spring (if your brass is ejecting at 3-4 o clock this is unlikely to help, if ejecting at 1-2 this may bandaid the problem). if all that doesn’t work I’d consider sending it back for a look at the factory. hope this helps
 
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Brass was ejecting 2:30. Only ever fired today for the first time, only fired the Norma SS109 in question.

Can't change the buffer/buffer spring because it's a bufferless system.
 
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Didn’t fire slightly out of battery. The line around the case made it appear to be bulged. Just my own curiosity, what is going on with the primer?
 
Average Joe said:
Didn’t fire slightly out of battery. The line around the case made it appear to be bulged. Just my own curiosity, what is going on with the primer?
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primer is normal. no different than the other brass, just as flat (except for the pin dimple) and seated the same as the unfired cases.
 
It can’t be the ammo, it’s “Highly Reliable”.

I’m curious about the chamber dimensions. Did you try measuring the used vs new brass? If you drop a round into the barrel, does it move side to side?
 
Try some other ammo to see if it does the same thing. Those fired cases look ugly.

edit: That primer pictured look real flat to me. I do not recall ever seeing an unfired primer that looks that flat.
 
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Fired and unfired.

BTW, while taking this picture I found another case rim with a chunk missing from the extractor.

Edit again, just found a third one with a chunk missing from the extractor.

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Brownells’ video says it uses standard bolts and firing pins (in it non-standard carrier) so it would seem to have a standard type extractor. Like others said try some other type ammo … but I’ll add try that Norma in a known AR to see how it likes Norma. After that with the proprietary stuff I got nothing.
 
Timfoilhat said:
Fired and unfired.

BTW, while taking this picture I found another case rim with a chunk missing from the extractor.

Edit again, just found a third one with a chunk missing from the extractor.

View attachment 487914

View attachment 487922
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Pic #1 shows that the primer has fully flowed into the primer pocket and flattened. Looking around the firing pin dimple, it appears that it even tries flowing into the firing pin hole. Look at the ripple below the simple.

That looks like a classic over pressured round.
 
NCFubar said:
Brownells’ video says it uses standard bolts and firing pins (in it non-standard carrier) so it would seem to have a standard type extractor. Like others said try some other type ammo … but I’ll add try that Norma in a known AR to see how it likes Norma. After that with the proprietary stuff I got nothing.
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I'm quite sure the extractor has great purchase on the case rim. In studying the brass I now see there were a few more cases with the extractor claw gouge on the rim that did extract, but they're all cleaner than the one that didn't extract. That one has carbon filth on the bulge so I think we're seeing the effect of dirt progressively building up and some super hot Norma ammo.
 
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In the pic of fired and unfired. That primer looks flattened more than usual. Makes me suspect an over charge..

Also. Holy smokes are those crimps off center😬. Looks like they crimped some of the primer itself!

I really like the factory Norma stuff I've used. But that is kinda sketchy to me.
 
Got pics of a few unfired rounds? In the shot with 4 spent cases there seems to be something weird where the case neck meets the shoulder.

Super easy test, remove the upper from the rifle and drop an unfired round into the chamber. Does it go fully into the chamber? Can you spin it with your fingers? If the answer to either is no, clean and repeat.
 
JimB said:
Got pics of a few unfired rounds? In the shot with 4 spent cases there seems to be something weird where the case neck meets the shoulder.

Super easy test, remove the upper from the rifle and drop an unfired round into the chamber. Does it go fully into the chamber? Can you spin it with your fingers? If the answer to either is no, clean and repeat.
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I dropped a live round into the chamber and it seats right where it should and falls out when I invert the barrel. I can't get my fingers in there to spin it, anybody that can has some amazingly tiny fingers. I haven't done any cleaning yet.
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That unfired primer looks ugly. Norma needs to reset their priming machine. The fired primer is certainly flattened. Are you sure those are not reloads? That box looks as if it has been around the block a few times.
 
That looks like regular quality blasting ammo, but are those marks from a lee FCD on the 2nd and 4th?

Can’t be with the primers crimped like they are.

I’d complain to Norma to see if they want what’s left back.

Still check the chamber.
 
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Charlie said:
That unfired primer looks ugly. Norma needs to reset their priming machine. The fired primer is certainly flattened. Are you sure those are not reloads? That box looks as if it has been around the block a few times.
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I'm sure that I ordered 10 boxes from Norma and it's not factory reloads or 2nd quality.

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