Fight between rival biker gangs in Clayton ends with 1 shot, 4 with head injuries

Dan0311 said:
The way I understand it, your motorcycle club has to ask permission to wear a 3-piece patch (usually associated with 1% clubs) and take sides. They also want a certain amount of your members to attend their ride$/fundraiser$.
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Yeah that's the way they do it in Eastern NC. There's other little rules too about if you're riding together who rides where.

Pagans have their own little thing because they are nomad, compared to what other "traditional" clubs do.

Edit: mess might have changed by now it's been about 17 years since my dad got out of the club he was in. Few of his brothers went to pagans but they have all retired. Bunch of old men, the 1% life doesn't go well at 60 plus.
 
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that's a lot of rules to follow just because you ride a bike
what if you just want to ride?
 
The ball peen hammer is a Hells Angels trademark, hence my sending a message comment.

Just an informational/SA thing, if you see a biker wearing a ball peen hammer pin on their vest, they're affiliated with HA.
 
As silly as the costumery & protocols seem, those guys take that very seriously. Most folks don't know or care & for 99%, the issue will never arise. For those in or around "the life", it's fairly common knowledge & just something to be aware of while out & about.

ETA- if yer out & happen to run into any 1%ers, they have a credo of "give respect, get respect". They have no interest in slick backs or motorcycle enthusiasts. Don't touch or comment on their patch, ol' lady, or bike, nor ask/talk about club business & you'll be fine. Also, they are very much a "don't bro me if you don't know me" crowd. They have brothers & you are NOT one of them.
 
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Crazy Carl said:
The ball peen hammer is a Hells Angels trademark, hence my sending a message comment.

Just an informational/SA thing, if you see a biker wearing a ball peen hammer pin on their vest, they're affiliated with HA.
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that all sounds so stupid that it must be true
 
Crazy Carl said:
As silly as the costumery & protocols seem, those guys take that very seriously. Most folks don't know or care & for 99%, the issue will never arise. For those in or around "the life", it's fairly common knowledge & just something to be aware of while out & about.

ETA- if yer out & happen to run into any 1%ers, they have a credo of "give respect, get respect". They have no interest in slick backs or motorcycle enthusiasts. Don't touch or comment on their patch, ol' lady, or bike, nor ask/talk about club business & you'll be fine. Also, they are very much a "don't bro me if you don't know me" crowd. They have brothers & you are NOT one of them.
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Eh, you can ask about a bike, many wont care. Ive had plenty of fine conversations with these folks about bikes. They do still love their bikes
Now asking about club business...yeah, but that should be common sense. Same for their lady, I mean, you want people asking you (the royal you, not you CC) about your wife? etc



1st year I raced at Rockingham I got there early and setup. I parked beside this roped off area, no one was in it. Great, should be one less thing to worry about. It was the HA area.
The Rockingham race (Harley drags) were a required meet for many of the clubs, but also a neutral area for them.
Anyway, I was concerned. Not a thing happened. They just did their thing, very privately, didnt give two craps about me.


Anyone interested in MCs, I got a few books I could recommend, mostly undercover stings/busts stuff. Really interesting, to me, at least.
 
HMP, please recommend.

those books might be as interesting
as the Mafia books i read years ago.
 
HMP said:
Eh, you can ask about a bike, many wont care. Ive had plenty of fine conversations with these folks about bikes. They do still love their bikes
Now asking about club business...yeah, but that should be common sense. Same for their lady, I mean, you want people asking you (the royal you, not you CC) about your wife? etc
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Yeah, I could've stated that better. I would never touch another dude's bike though, patch holder or no. That's the simple thing so many miss- treat them with the same respect that you would any other & they'll reciprocate. They're mostly pretty okay dudes & the ones who aren't, or who don't wish to be bothered, will make it very clear from the start. I got to know a couple HA guys back when & when they & their crew showed up, a good time was had by all. Anything past that was absolutely no concern of mine.

I got to observe from a distance a war between the Outlaws & some other 1% club (whose name I've long since forgotten) as a kid in the early '80's. Ugly stuff. Patcholders found dead in dumpsters & lakes & the whole bit. Soured any desire I may have had to join a club.
 
Crazy Carl said:
I got to observe from a distance a war between the Outlaws & some other 1% club (whose name I've long since forgotten) as a kid in the early '80's. Ugly stuff. Patcholders found dead in dumpsters & lakes & the whole bit. Soured any desire I may have had to join a club.
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Used to see Outlaws pretty regularly in Charlotte in the early 70’s. Did they just fade away or just flying under the radar?
 
fieldgrade said:
Used to see Outlaws pretty regularly in Charlotte in the early 70’s. Did they just fade away or just flying under the radar?
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I think a little of both. I've never seen one in NC, but my running around was all in the 'Ville/Bragg area. Club my dad was prospecting for was tight with the Outlaws. Not my scene at all. I'm all for having a good time & flyin' yer freak flag proudly, but that crew, at that time, seemed especially aggressive & unpleasant. Totally not how I roll.
 
john galt, thanks.
do you have a book recommendation
which is about gangs without the undercover agent angle ?
 
Crazy Carl said:
but that crew, at that time, seemed especially aggressive & unpleasant. Totally not how I roll.
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Apparently it wasn’t just Fayetteville. I have a fairly vivid recollection from Charlotte in the early ‘70’s. My friends and I used to drink beer and shoot pool at a little dive bar called The Foxhole on South Blvd. They’d let in teenagers back in the day. Drinking age was 18. That MC took a shine to the place. I got up from my barstool one night to take a leak and when I came back a PH was sitting on my stool, drinking my beer, and smoking my cigarettes. Being a skinny 17 year old I just bought another beer and went to shooting pool in the other room. I was an idiot back then, but not a stupid idiot.

Between the hanging on lights over the pool tables, and general rowdy behavior they chased off what few customers that little place ever had and a few weeks later the bar just closed. Which was sad to us as we knew the owners. The End.
 
turkeydance said:
john galt, thanks.
do you have a book recommendation
which is about gangs without the undercover agent angle ?
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Sonny Barger's biography I read probably 20 years ago and was a great read.

Found it
Screenshot_20210709-184605_Chrome.jpg
 
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I went to a Willie Nelson concert in DPAC years ago, and there was a gentleman in the audience with a brand new set of Hells Angels colors. It's the only HA jacket I've ever seen here.
 
Up north, in The Glorious Socialist People’s Republic of Marylandistan, there is a group called the Chosen Sons, mostly cops and firefighters, but def wear a rocker and colors and such.
 
fieldgrade said:
Apparently it wasn’t just Fayetteville.
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Oh, I never saw them in the 'Ville. I meant that my stomping grounds were nowhere near Outlaw turf. My only experience with them was in OKC in the '80's.

For a good read, check out The Original Wild Ones, Tales of the Booze fighters MC by Bill Hayes. BFMC do it right, in my opinion, or rather are much more representative of how I view being a biker.
 
now i have Too Many Books to read.
i might finish this year....or not.
thanks again.
 
Spartan01 said:
Hunter S Thompson embedded with HA in the mid to late 1960’s.
His book was Hells Angels; A Strange and Terrible Saga.
If you like his work it’s worth a read.
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Hunter S. Thompson, only man to ride with both HA and Richard M. Nixon.
 
fieldgrade said:
Used to see Outlaws pretty regularly in Charlotte in the early 70’s. Did they just fade away or just flying under the radar?
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Remember this? It was big news at the time. I remember news coverage of the funerals at Forest Lawn on Freedom Drive.


"Frequently referred to as the worst mass murder in Charlotte history, five people were slaughtered; four members of the Charlotte chapter of the Outlaws motorcycle gang and a visiting friend were shot dead on July 4, 1979."


https://704shop.com/blogs/fact-friday/fact-friday-174-the-outlaws-motorcycle-gang-massacre


https://www.thestate.com/latest-news/article87223662.html

.
 
Gator said:
Remember this? It was big news at the time. I remember news coverage of the funerals at Forest Lawn on Freedom Drive.


"Frequently referred to as the worst mass murder in Charlotte history, five people were slaughtered; four members of the Charlotte chapter of the Outlaws motorcycle gang and a visiting friend were shot dead on July 4, 1979."


https://704shop.com/blogs/fact-friday/fact-friday-174-the-outlaws-motorcycle-gang-massacre


https://www.thestate.com/latest-news/article87223662.html

.
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This kind of news is how I remember Charlotte growing up in the 60’s and ’70’s even though I was raised on the south side of town. I ‘m not sure why the Outlaws were even hanging out in that dive bar between Charlotte and Pineville as far away as it was from their usual haunts. Maybe because no one really knew it was there.

There was a guy in my gym class in high school who was either a prospect or PH in the Tarheel Stompers, which was kinda of crazy considering where I went to high school. I seem to recall he was patched.
 
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turkeydance said:
HMP, please recommend.

those books might be as interesting
as the Mafia books i read years ago.
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Hell's Angels by Yves Levignes
Under and Alone

Those three are the first to come to mind, all will give insight to the way they allow people in, how they conduct themselves in various situations, how they make their money etc.



As far as the Outlaws - I live in Lexington...well, close to it. Outlaw area.
My father hung out at a shop owned by one, my (biological) mom's bike got worked on there some and she even thanked the guy when her bike was featured (cover) of Easyriders. Hell, my grandfather went and visited the guy in prison for many years. I grew up around some of them, still see some here and there being around this area.
I'd love to know more about them, lots about the HA out there, I'd like to learn more about O.

As far as them in Charlotte, it was mentioned above, and in the Yves book (which is set in early 80s), they talk about this big war between them and the HA were many were killed.


Respect is key, from what I can tell.
Im sitting in a coffee shop in Lexington right now, ten feet from another table. A couple months ago an Outlaw walked in, I have no idea who he is/was, but I asked him if I could ask him some questions, if he could maybe identify some folks in a photo. He seemed...hesitant. I told him who I was, who my father was, that we knew such and such who ran said shop above, and that my grandfather went to visit that man in prison in Florida for years, they were friends. Hell, he came to my grandfather's funeral. I said I had a pic of my grandfather with some guys, I thought they were O, he sat for a moment, yeah, he knew them. We chatted, he asked if I wouldnt mind sending that pic to him, shoook my hand, went on about his day. Nice guy, he seemed.


The folks Ive met, I dont know what they've done. I dont want to know, it doesnt matter to me. They've all been very nice to me and my family. But I am always interested in learning more about that culture, what's happened around the country and world with these clubs.
 
In Oakland HA had a big clubhouse, may have been the original one.
I’ve had dealings with people related to HA (and some affiliates) in various ways throughout my life. Was close friends with a guy who was a founding members son. Terry the Tramp. Famous biker. Friend of Sonnys. I got a somewhat inside view and learned some things:

-If you don’t act like a tough guy or dress up like a tough guy: you don’t really exist.
If you DO act like a tough guy: you had better be a tough guy.
-Do not ever borrow money or anything else from any biker gang member or anyone related to one.
-Many are scary hardcore criminals who will happily kick your ass and will find a reason if they don’t like you.
-Don’t ever ever bring your old lady around any of it. Ever.

Ive found mostly that it’s not a lifestyle that is congruent with my nature. At the end of the day, I treat them like I’d treat any other man. I wouldn’t be afraid to ask or talk about a bike at all. I’d never think to touch someone’s bike/old lady/dog etc.
In my dealings I’ve been treated well and met some very interesting people.
Even made some bad blunders and was told nicely “don’t do/say that again man”.

So, I think if you’re not into that lifestyle they don’t care about you. Dianese jacket on a sport bike and they just think “goof on a ricer”. Lol. Which is exactly what I am. And quite happy with it.
 
thanks for all the book recommendations.

three things:
1. here is some payback : i mentioned the Mafia, so....Fighting the Mafia by Leoluca Orlando.
2. what would happen if Harley-Davidson went out of business? do 1% MCs ride anything else?
3. are there any books written after 2015 which are current with protocols?
 
There was an Outlaw chapter in the 'ville back in the late 80s. Their clubhouse was at the end of the dirt road of the trailer park I lived in at the time. This woulda been circa 85 through about 89. I moved away from there in 94 and they'd been gone a few years. Nothing too crazy went down there. Was just a non-descript cinder block building. They didn't draw attention other than the number of bikes and burly bearded dudes wearing patches every weekend. During the week there usually wasn't much traffic around it.
 
JohnFreeman said:
I went to a Willie Nelson concert in DPAC years ago, and there was a gentleman in the audience with a brand new set of Hells Angels colors. It's the only HA jacket I've ever seen here.
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Had an Angle and pledge in front if me the other day while on my bike. They have a club house here in Fort Mill / indian land, SC
 

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turkeydance said:
2. what would happen if Harley-Davidson went out of business? do 1% MCs ride anything else?
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I think many have rules which state you must ride American of at least 1200cc (sorry 883 sportys)

I know Sonny Barger has given interviews stating how they really messed up on that one, that they should have switched to some of the BMW or Japanese touring bikes for their reliability etc

But to your question, honestly, if they went out of business, they'd still ride, I think. How many Pontiacs are still on the road today? Same for Buell motorcycles, Studebakers etc With HD, there are SO many people making parts...EVERY part, that if HD shut down today and trashed every part they had, there would still be HDs on the road/riding for decades to come.
 
I have treated a few HAs over the years. No issues. Not like the less couth gangs.

Now, Banditos... here's my side glance experience. My brother-in-law was a low-level enforcer for a Banditos chapter near Dallas. He's pretty much a societal window-licker (though I have never met him, this is all from my nephews, the kids from my sister's first husband) and a general dufus. He was muscle and involved in drug trafficking/distribution. He got pinched and did time in the federal pen after a multi-state sweep. One of Obama's laws let low-risk/low-fruit people out of prison for good behavior, so he got out after doing about 25% of his sentence. Per my sister, he was framed, he didn't anything. Per my nephew, there was a metric crap-ton of evidence against him.

My sister swears he's born-again and all reformed, having sworn off his past. IDGAF. He is a congenital liar...told my sister about all sorts of exploits in the army, sniper yadda yadda yadda, I got his DD214 and he was a MP medically separated for some BS reason. When I told my sister she told me "that's the public story, everything else is classified...." He's also a 'classically-trained chef' and custom leather-worker. He's FOS is what he is.

My sister me him in bar after she got divorced, it was "love at first sight." I am sure that her six-figure divorce settlement had nothing to do with it. A settlement that seemed to disappear a couple months after they started seeing each other.

The cherry on the top is when my sister told me they were getting married, I did a public records check, he also did some time before they met for child porn. She never told me, I have never brought it up. I have it tucked away for a rainy day.
 
Antifa was going to march in Benson and the HA and Bikers for Christ showed up before they did and lined both sides of main street with their bikes and stood on the sidewalks. The Antifa crowd decided that Benson wasn't a good place to protest and left.

A store owner asked one the HAs why they were there and was told " We aren't going to let them tear up our small towns".
 
I grew up with a Breed house across the street and an HA house a block up and around the corner. we were 2 blocks from the Ghetto, my street was the safest in the area. I hung out over there as a teen, me and my friends were the neighborhood motorcycle teens. My friend has a MC shop and I have been wrenching there recently. there is a pretty large group of HA around here along with their associate groups. We work on some of their bikes, been fistbump friendly with a few of them. Never had a desire to be a Club guy.
The Hunter S Thompson book is pretty great.
 
Ironically enough, the Outlaws have recently just put up a sign on a building in Caldwell County (north of Lenior). Seems strange to me, it's a pretty small town for a 1% club IMHO.
 
Just had a shooting up this way with a similar casualty count. Dominant 1% club here is small, but notoriously vicious & allied with red & white. Apparently red & gold are trying to move in & are not being well received.
 
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