First AR

Mathieu18

Mathieu18

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Getting close to making a purchase. I'm cheap so probably down to the following two options:

1) "Used" M&P Optics Ready (Original, not MkII) that is used but looks like it's never been fired (looks like it still has factory lube on it). 4140 barrel, 1/9 twist, basic bolt, looks pretty basic overall, S&W doesn't get too in depth with their specs.

2) PSA Complete Upper and Lower combo (AR15 MOE EPT Lower & 16" Upper 4150V Mid-Length 1/7 Barrel w/ NiB bolt.

Price wise it won't be too different after tax, FFL fee etc. The M&P will probably cost a bit more than the PSA setup. For usage I'd mostly be 55gr range rounds, but might get some heavier bullets for HD use.

Any thoughts on best way to go?
 
I can’t advise, but will say that my entry M&P is a fine gun. I did replace the 4-rail handguard.
 
I had 2 co workers start off their ar collection in 2020 at the same time. One went with m&p sport other went with psa. Both happy and Both report no issues at the range.

You can't go wrong with either imo.
 
JimB said:
I can’t advise, but will say that my entry M&P is a fine gun. I did replace the 4-rail handguard.
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Yeah, I do not love the stock M&P handguard, but it looks like the Magpul MOE SL will work and isn’t too pricey. I don’t think either of these are bad, but ultimately that secondary I just want the most reliable gun.
 
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The two Co workers i spoke of go to the range together and split ammo so round counts are exactly the same. Neither have reported one issue yet. It has kinda become a competition of whose will go longer without failures. Psa does gives you more options out the gate though.
 
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So I guess I wonder if the paper specs of the PSA translate into real life advantages for reliability etc (I’m sure accuracy will out shoot me). Toolcraft Nickel Boron BCG, 4150V vs 4140 Barrel, 1/7 twist, etc. All else equal they’re probably better but well made, “lesser” parts can sometimes outperform cheaply made flashy ones so don’t just wanna get sucked in either.

EDIT: Could also get a .223 Wylde barrel in basic 4150 for the same price with PSA. Kinda tempting too since I likely would shoot some .223 REM. But again, don’t wanna chase flashy specs at the expense of reliability.
 
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Never have owned or shot a M&P. But have shot n owned and built a few PSA with no issues. Only bad thing I've experienced personally on a PSA was a mlok grip my family member installed not paying attention and the screw hit the gas block and he kept tightening it moving the gas block out of place. It was also pistol length with limited rail space for the grip.
 
SPST said:
Go with the used with no 4473 to fill out. JMO.
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It’s at a FFL, same I’d ship the PSA too, so paperwork regardless.
 
Ha, I like the direction this thread took. Can I start a reverse auction? Who’ll go the lowest?

@Tim you apparently skimmed the post. I’m cheap was #1 requirement.

@SPST I would but in the barren wasteland south of Wilmington. Might as well be Central Jersey for good used gun deals.
 
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Personally I’d pick the PSA. Not in love with a 1/9 even though it’s probably fine.
Have seen a few problems with M&Ps, mainly sheered gas keys. But that likely won’t be a problem.
I feel like all the PSA’s I’ve seen have outperformed their price points.
Just my opinion.
 
Haha, you clearly read that I’m cheap, touché. Positive feedback always good… can put that $100 towards a 300BLK upper when it’s time to suppress. Thanks.
 
If you're buying a virgin lower, make sure you put a pistol upper on it first so you can say it was built as a pistol. You can always say you built it as a pistol, converted to a rifle, and can LEGALLY go back to a pistol if you want as long as you take off the stock first.
If you build it as a rifle, you're stuck with a rifle forever.

alternatively, you could probably bypass the whole pistol upper thing and just SAY you built it as a pistol first... but that's none of my business.
I imagine any decent gun shop would say "go ahead and set this upper on top real fast..." though.
 
DrScaryGuy said:
If you're buying a virgin lower, make sure you put a pistol upper on it first so you can say it was built as a pistol. You can always say you built it as a pistol, converted to a rifle, and can LEGALLY go back to a pistol if you want as long as you take off the stock first.
If you build it as a rifle, you're stuck with a rifle forever.

alternatively, you could probably bypass the whole pistol upper thing and just SAY you built it as a pistol first... but that's none of my business.
I imagine any decent gun shop would say "go ahead and set this upper on top real fast..." though.
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I’d argue there’s no such thing as a “pistol upper”. There are simply uppers with barrels shorter than others. 😉

Just like there’s no such thing as a “pistol lower”. There’s a lower with a brace, but without a barrel it’s not a pistol.

Either way…there’s no need to buy a separate short upper to do what you’re describing. At the federal level, there’s no barrel length mentioned in the definition of a pistol. It’s completely legal to:
1. Buy complete lower from PSA with stock attached
2. Buy complete 16” upper from CA
3. Remove stock
4. Attach upper
5. Reinstall stock

You legally just initially built an AR pistol, then converted it to a rifle. No reason to have to SAY something you didn’t actually do. 😎
 
JimB said:
I can’t advise, but will say that my entry M&P is a fine gun. I did replace the 4-rail handguard.
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Most of them got the cut carriers and I tell people not to touch s&w just beacuse of that.

Same reason I don't touch Hillary hole wheel guns.

I don't buy anything from modern s&w. They're like old school ruger in my eyes
 
Was wondering how you’d document you built a pistol first, I see you don’t. But also wary of Pistol ARs till they clarify braces in a couple months presumably.
 
BigWaylon said:
I’d argue there’s no such thing as a “pistol upper”. There are simply uppers with barrels shorter than others. 😉

Just like there’s no such thing as a “pistol lower”. There’s a lower with a brace, but without a barrel it’s not a pistol.

Either way…there’s no need to buy a separate short upper to do what you’re describing. At the federal level, there’s no barrel length mentioned in the definition of a pistol. It’s completely legal to:
1. Buy complete lower from PSA with stock attached
2. Buy complete 16” upper from CA
3. Remove stock
4. Attach upper
5. Reinstall stock

You legally just initially built an AR pistol, then converted it to a rifle. No reason to have to SAY something you didn’t actually do. 😎
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fair enough. but do you then you cross into some of that undefined "firearm" category? I'm not sure anybody has fought for the right to convert a "firearm" to a pistol. and i didn't say buy a pistol upper. i said plop one on. it's a little ritual i do when i build a new AR, before I decide if it should live as a rifle or pistol.
Like I said, you could just SAY you built as a pistol first. it would be on the feds to prove you did not if it ever came down to that.
 
DrScaryGuy said:
fair enough. but do you then you cross into some of that undefined "firearm" category? I'm not sure anybody has fought for the right to convert a "firearm" to a pistol. and i didn't say buy a pistol upper. i said plop one on. it's a little ritual i do when i build a new AR, before I decide if it should live as a rifle or pistol.
Like I said, you could just SAY you built as a pistol first. it would be on the feds to prove you did not if it ever came down to that.
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It’s not in a “firearm” category. It’s a pistol, because it doesn’t have a stock. It can’t be carried as a pistol in some states due to length (for example, I believe SC defines it as OAL of 12” or less)…but it’s federally a pistol, which is all that matters to the ATF in this scenario. The firearm category would happen if it was >26” OAL and he added a VFG, which is don’t see taking place here.

If he’s working on his first AR, he’d have to buy a “pistol upper” because he doesn’t have one…even if you didn’t say that. Ok, yes…he could borrow one for 10 seconds if he wanted to.
 
Mathieu18 said:
Was wondering how you’d document you built a pistol first, I see you don’t. But also wary of Pistol ARs till they clarify braces in a couple months presumably.
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Take a picture right after you receive it.
*edit to add * I’m not a lawyer, nor do I play on TV
 
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recreationalhandgrenade said:
Most of them got the cut carriers and I tell people not to touch s&w just beacuse of that.

Same reason I don't touch Hillary hole wheel guns.

I don't buy anything from modern s&w. They're like old school ruger in my eyes
Click to expand...
“Cut carriers”? What dat?
 
Mathieu18 said:
Was wondering how you’d document you built a pistol first, I see you don’t. But also wary of Pistol ARs till they clarify braces in a couple months presumably.
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You don’t. Why people even bring this up is beyond me. Just use whatever upper you want on whatever lower you want. The sooner more people start doing this the better.
 
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Either choice would be workable. I was at the same point a few years ago, I picked a basic Ruger AR 556, it has been serving me well. I got mine for 430 at the peak of the AR glut (lucky me).
 
I am no tactical pro, but if I was buying my first and only AR I’d want a good one that I had faith would be 100% reliable. Doesn’t sound like the time to be overly frugal. But to each his own I guess.

This would be a good answer IMO.


BPM/BPC -BASIC PATROL CARBINE – BPM

usamade-ar15parts.com usamade-ar15parts.com
 
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recreationalhandgrenade said:
Most of them got the cut carriers and I tell people not to touch s&w just beacuse of that.

Same reason I don't touch Hillary hole wheel guns.

I don't buy anything from modern s&w. They're like old school ruger in my eyes
Click to expand...
Modern S&W is dog water. Just one man’s opinion (or 2 I guess)
 
BigWaylon said:
I’d argue there’s no such thing as a “pistol upper”. There are simply uppers with barrels shorter than others. 😉

Just like there’s no such thing as a “pistol lower”. There’s a lower with a brace, but without a barrel it’s not a pistol.

Either way…there’s no need to buy a separate short upper to do what you’re describing. At the federal level, there’s no barrel length mentioned in the definition of a pistol. It’s completely legal to:
1. Buy complete lower from PSA with stock attached
2. Buy complete 16” upper from CA
3. Remove stock
4. Attach upper
5. Reinstall stock

You legally just initially built an AR pistol, then converted it to a rifle. No reason to have to SAY something you didn’t actually do. 😎
Click to expand...
The only scenario I’ve heard where there is any distinction between pistol or rifle is when you buy a compete gun. The parts purchased and put together aren’t sold as “pistol upper” or “pistol lower”.
 
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