Ford takes it away if you miss payments.

turkeydance

turkeydance

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quote:

It explicitly says the system, which could be installed on any future vehicle in the automaker's lineup
with a data connection would be capable of "[disabling] a functionality of one or more components of the vehicle."


www.thedrive.com

Future Fords Could Repossess Themselves and Drive Away if You Miss Payments

Ford's proposed system would allow your car to lock itself, disable certain features, and even drive itself autonomously to an impound lot.
www.thedrive.com www.thedrive.com
 
Windini said:
"If you miss payments..."

Why is this controversial? I'm fairly certain if I stop making mortgage payments, then I probably won't get to keep using my house.
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Well there’s a court system and a process to get you out of your house. The bank doesn’t move it to an impound lot one day on its own.
 
Windini said:
"If you miss payments..."

Why is this controversial? I'm fairly certain if I stop making mortgage payments, then I probably won't get to keep using my house.
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Oh, you’re very wrong.

Edit: meaning it’s near impossible to evict
 
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This is a step in the direction of all vehicles having a kill switch. Just wait until law enforcement has the ability to stop cars during chases via this method.
 
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Mathieu18 said:
Well there’s a court system and a process to get you out of your house. The bank doesn’t move it to an impound lot one day on its own.
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And I'll bet there is a due process process for the vehicle repossession, too.

What this sounds like is simply digitizing the repossession process, which has been around since car financing began. If you buy something on credit & don't pay for it, you lose it (or should).

As far as the "car shut off at 75mph" goes, spare me. The liability wing of the mfg/financing downtown skyscraper crew has no doubt CYA'd themselves - and not even a nod to Due Process Justice. They know the cost of a lawsuit/settlement for "killing mom & kids on their way home from school!" would cost more than any value left in the vehicle. They absolutely have tracking capabilities so they know when the car is sitting, shut off, how many if any people are in or near it, how much the BJ goin' on inside cost,.etc. 😀

Now, the privacy   issue is disturbing, but we let that bridge burn a long time ago.

This is about not meeting the obligation of your agreements. For whatever reason, if one can't/doesn't do that, one is not a victim of EvIL cApiTAlitht Fat CaT CorPoRatioNs!!
 
Tim said:
Oh, you’re very wrong.

Edit: meaning it’s near impossible to evict
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Evicting a non-paying renter is stupidly & unjustifiably difficult. But nowhere near impossible.

No doubt it also takes too d@#* long to get kicked out/removed from a house you "own," too. But eventually it happens if other (refi/bailout) arrangements aren't made.

It's harsh, but not unjust.
 
Windini said:
And I'll bet there is a due process process for the vehicle repossession, too.

What this sounds like is simply digitizing the repossession process, which has been around since car financing began. If you buy something on credit & don't pay for it, you lose it (or should).

As far as the "car shut off at 75mph" goes, spare me. The liability wing of the mfg/financing downtown skyscraper crew has no doubt CYA'd themselves - and not even a nod to Due Process Justice. They know the cost of a lawsuit/settlement for "killing mom & kids on their way home from school!" would cost more than any value left in the vehicle. They absolutely have tracking capabilities so they know when the car is sitting, shut off, how many if any people are in or near it, how much the BJ goin' on inside cost,.etc. 😀

Now, the privacy   issue is disturbing, but we let that bridge burn a long time ago.

This is about not meeting the obligation of your agreements. For whatever reason, if one can't/doesn't do that, one is not a victim of EvIL cApiTAlitht Fat CaT CorPoRatioNs!!
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They won’t stop it at 75mph, I agree. They’ll kill it next time it goes in park.
 
They won’t do the 75mph kill. It will be like the diesel trucks that run out of DEF. The vehicle will go into a loop that will only allow it to move 10 mph. It will still move to get off the road but you ain’t going nowhere fast.
 
One other concern is how secure this system will be. Let’s be honest: everyone is terrible at building secure systems. How long before bored kids or malicious hackers from another continent are bricking people’s trucks remotely?
 
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dct said:
One other concern is how secure this system will be. Let’s be honest: everyone is terrible at building secure systems. How long before bored kids or malicious hackers from another continent are bricking people’s trucks remotely?
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Probably, if they are smart, the different sections of the network will be air gapped from each other.
Like a remote connection to change the direction and speed of the car is impossible from, say, the infotainment system, which will be the easiest way in. You know, bluetooth, usb ports, car wifi.

But at the end of the day, if there's a remote way to move or disable the car, there is a way for other actors to do it.

www.cnet.com

Tesla hackers explain how they did it at Defcon

At the digital security conference, Kevin Mahaffey and Marc Rogers explain how they hacked a Tesla Model S -- and why you shouldn't be too alarmed.
www.cnet.com www.cnet.com

As an example, this required phsyical access to the Tesla and a lot of time, hard.


Here's from two years ago. This can turn off the engine remotely, but requires a lot of intermediate steps, like first hacking the users phone, then their app.
 
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I don't believe Ford will do this. For the reasons mentioned above (liability) as well as the fact the the system costs money and isn't going to net them that much in return. Firstly, Ford doesn't own every car being leased or credited. There are many car loan vendors. Ford isn't going to spend money on the car for other vendors. Secondly, even if they could remotely disable the car they still have to collect it. How much did they really save then? The best this gets them is saving the small number of runaways they can't repossess right away. But usually police track down stolen cars fairly quickly, so it's not that much of an issue. Lastly, it's probably going to be cheaper and easier just to buy some kind of insurance or force the customer to buy it.
 
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Windini said:
What this sounds like is simply digitizing the repossession process, which has been around since car financing began. If you buy something on credit & don't pay for it, you lose it (or should).
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As has been said above, this isn’t the only thing such a system would be used for and I guarantee you that the functionality will not remain solely in the hands if the “good” guys, but will be used nefariously. Probably more so than legitimately.
 
noway2 said:
As has been said above, this isn’t the only thing such a system would be used for and I guarantee you that the functionality will not remain solely in the hands if the “good” guys, but will be used nefariously. Probably more so than legitimately.
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I agree wholeheartedly, hence my "privacy issue" comment. But the op's post didn't seem to focus on the control-freak level of surveillance and digital meddling aspect of the situation. It seemed instead to be about "victimization" ... of people who stopped making payments.
 
so ford creates the system, dealers buy into the system and register the vehicles they want control over by VIN.
It won't cut you off at 75mph, but next time you try to start it, it will say "please make a payment to continue..."
miss work? that's on you. can't drive your wire to the hospital, call 911. got deactivated by mistake, shouldn't have done whatever whatever to make the mistake happen. your fault.
and don't worry, all they're going to do is slip one more form into the purchase/lease agreements that says you agree to use the software that the car's onboard computers run, which includes the remote control kill switch. I've been waiting 30+ years to see much of anything in the courts about that for computers/phones/etc... but no. we'll all eat this crap sandwich and smile.
 
Anytime you build a back door into a system someone you didn’t intend to use it will find their way in. Kind of like a raccoon that figures out that beyond the doggie door is a whole world of interesting treats and if you go in at night no one bothers you.
I’ve worked with enough software developers to understand that they’re just people like anyone else. You have some that spend the time to do a good job and then you have some that prioritize the quickest way possible. Given the track record for quality control that companies like Ford have I’m sure “quick and cheap” will take priority.
That’ll leave big gaping holes in the code for some enterprising (or bored) individuals to exploit and we’ll see ransom attacks and people bypassing any safeguards against shutting a vehicle down at speed. That of course is assuming Ford doesn’t just screw it up on their own, which isn’t a bet I’d take.
 
barf said:
This is a step in the direction of all vehicles having a kill switch. Just wait until law enforcement has the ability to stop cars during chases via this method.
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They already do, at least with GM "OnStar" vehicles.

Even if you didn't sign up and don't pay for the OnStar, it can still be remotely disabled.

I don't think it just turns it off, I am told it reduces power and brakes it to a stop.
 
barf said:
This is a step in the direction of all vehicles having a kill switch. Just wait until law enforcement has the ability to stop cars during chases via this method.
Click to expand...
They already do. OnStar in Chevy and BMW, whatever Ford uses. If you want to avoid any of this, you'll have to get something pre-OBD
 
alpharius said:
I don't believe Ford will do this. For the reasons mentioned above (liability) as well as the fact the the system costs money and isn't going to net them that much in return. Firstly, Ford doesn't own every car being leased or credited. There are many car loan vendors. Ford isn't going to spend money on the car for other vendors. Secondly, even if they could remotely disable the car they still have to collect it. How much did they really save then? The best this gets them is saving the small number of runaways they can't repossess right away. But usually police track down stolen cars fairly quickly, so it's not that much of an issue. Lastly, it's probably going to be cheaper and easier just to buy some kind of insurance or force the customer to buy it.
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Ford is just getting a jump on when this kind of system is mandatory per big brother. They don't care, the certainly don't want it, but they see writing on the wall that it might be mandated one day and want to be the first ones out of the gate with it developed.
 
Diablos said:
the more i hear about the crap, the more inclined i am to just keep on driving my truck. 14yrs and counting
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'07 and people have offered me cash for it no matter what condition it's in.
nope. it's my daily driver.
 
GoWolfpack said:
Ford is just getting a jump on when this kind of system is mandatory per big brother. They don't care, the certainly don't want it, but they see writing on the wall that it might be mandated one day and want to be the first ones out of the gate with it developed.
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get the patents on all of it now, let the other companies license it rather than develop their own?
 
Catfish said:
/agree

We need more accountability of this nature in the world.
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Repossession already exists though. How does this create more accountability than "if you don't make your payments we'll come take your car away"?
The capability to remotely disable your vehicle will be co-opted by the government as soon as humanly possible.

Make no mistake, this is about controlling your movements with the push of a button, not loan repayment.




DrScaryGuy said:
get the patents on all of it now, let the other companies license it rather than develop their own?
Click to expand...

Being the first to already have it developed when it's mandated so there is less lag in implementation.
 
GoWolfpack said:
Make no mistake, this is about controlling your movements with the push of a button, not loan repayment
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I see no evidence of this, so I give it zero credibility. Show me some and I'll revise my opinion.
 
GoWolfpack said:
How does this create more accountability than "if you don't make your payments we'll come take your car away"?
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It does actually, or it has potential to.
If the repo man takes your car, things have gone so far south that your loan is toast, and the car is gone. Credit is ruined, car gets sold at auction, nobody wins.
If Ford shuts your car off you have a chance to make the payment. They turn it back on and you learned something about being accountable next month.
It could also turn into a bunch of roadside bonfires - we'll see.
 
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Pack72 said:
And how much would Ford charge to remove this system once the car was paid for? Plus, if Ford could remotely disable the car, so could hacker carjackers, or Big Brother.
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I'm betting they DON'T remove it...they either electronically disable it (probably) or physically disconnect it and leave it in place.

GPS disablers are already in use by a number of agencies, including car dealers. Apparently they're popular with buy-here-pay-here dealerships. There have been some instances where dealerships will remotely disable a vehicle after a single missed payment. When a vehicle is paid off, a "deactivation code" is supposed to be sent out to disable the GPS disabler.

Some states have regulations in place about how they can and cannot be used.

Here's a story about a guy whose car was disabled two years AFTER he paid it off:

www.wect.com

Dealer’s GPS disabler leaves driver stranded two years after paying off car

Antonio Tigue was driving through a small town in Alabama on his way to his mom’s house in Mississippi just before Christmas when his car suddenly stopped working.
www.wect.com www.wect.com
 
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