FTC bans noncompete clauses.

[Exspiravit]

F.T.C. Issues Ban on Worker Noncompete Clauses

The rule would prohibit companies from limiting their employees’ ability to work for rivals, a change that could increase competition and boost wages.

www.nytimes.com

This is interesting. I've had to sign one of these myself in the past and it felt like indentured servitude. Work for us or don't work at all.
There may be a downside to this somewhere but it seems like a win for freedom to me.

 

[GymB]

No, you should be free to enter into an agreement or not. Like any other condition of employment, if the employer’s demands aren’t to your liking, then don’t work their.
They are incredibly difficult to enforce, but they help to prevent things like theft of IP.

 

[Grits]

Don't want me working for a competitor? Then treat me right and pay me really really good.

 

[Jerzsubbie]

No, you should be free to enter into an agreement or not. Like any other condition of employment, if the employer’s demands aren’t to your liking, then don’t work their.
They are incredibly difficult to enforce, but they help to prevent things like theft of IP.

In theory, I completely agree. I don’t want gov putting their nose in anything else, at all. In practice however, there is an issue. Where do you work when all of the major players are requiring a non-compete?
If IP theft is the concern, we have laws and protections for IP already. Trade secrets and corporate strategy are a little different and nearly impossible to prove the info was shared, and this is more of a non-disclosure issue. A non-compete prevents someone from earning a living, so without compensation during the non-compete period, I see a problem.

I think non-competes make sense when a business owner sells their business, they can’t start a new business doing the exact same thing 3mo down the line.

 

[DuncanLempRIP]

No, you should be free to enter into an agreement or not. Like any other condition of employment, if the employer’s demands aren’t to your liking, then don’t work their.
They are incredibly difficult to enforce, but they help to prevent things like theft of IP.

I don't know how I specifically feel about noncompetes, but I do question your underlying premise. Taking it to its extreme, should one be able to sign a contract permanently, unconditionally, and irrevocably enslaving oneself to another? Is that really "freedom"?

 

[NCLivingBrit]

I don't know how I specifically feel about noncompetes, but I do question your underlying premise. Taking it to its extreme, should one be able to sign a contract permanently, unconditionally, and irrevocably enslaving oneself to another? Is that really "freedom"?

 

[DuncanLempRIP]

Zhew weel eet ze bugs!

 

[noway2]

If IP theft is the concern, we have laws and protections for IP already. Trade secrets and corporate strategy are a little different and nearly impossible to prove the info was shared, and this is more of a non-disclosure issue. A non-compete prevents someone from earning a living, so without compensation during the non-compete period, I see a problem.

As I understand it, generally from a legal perspective,you can’t keep someone from earning a living, even if that means working for a competitor.

Now, a more practical example. I worked for a company that had patented technology the corporation made it a “brand” under the corporation and doing so lost rights to the patent, which the other inventor held and started a new company, which ultimately went out of business. The company I re-went to work for used a variant of the patented technology, but wasn’t aware the same. Using old design files and working with the developers in India, I recreated te original patented algorithm. I don’t know if they used it or not, as I left around that time. Who owed it? I do know they used other tech I left them involving the Fortesue transform and doing “complex” algebra (matrix computations) to compute +/- alpha representing +/- 120 degrees phase rotation to break an unbalanced 3 phase system into 3 balanced coupled systems…. Ok. Geek alert..

 

[GymB]

I don't know how I specifically feel about noncompetes, but I do question your underlying premise. Taking it to its extreme, should one be able to sign a contract permanently, unconditionally, and irrevocably enslaving oneself to another? Is that really "freedom"?

Slavery is of course not legal in the US, so such an agreement would be illegal and unenforceable. There is case law that narrows the enforceability of non compete agreements, so for example if I sell widgets in New York a non-compete with my sales manager that prevented him from working for a competitor in 50 states would probably not be enforced while the same just for NY probably would be. Similarly, if it prevented him from taking any sales job in NY it would be unenforceable. Can’t make someone a slave, in name or practice, even if they agree, and you can’t prevent someone from earning a living.

There are of course a lot of unenforceable agreements that folks go along with, or not. My daughter currently believes that she is subject to one that’s clearly not enforceable. Employers can certainly make the lives of former employers difficult if they choose.

Don't want me working for a competitor? Then treat me right and pay me really really good.

Okay in part, but what if you get fired for performance issues. It’s not uncommon for companies to hire losers from competitors just to see what they can learn, we find that folks leak a ton of information in a protracted interview process even if we never hire them.

 

[MacEntyre]

Don't want me working for a competitor? Then treat me right and pay me really really good.

So you get out of optometry college, get a job where they treat you right and pay you really really good, and after two years you open up a competing clinic down the street and take all the patients you have met since graduation. That ain't right.

 

[yard mongrel]

if one customer facing employee leaving depletes your customer base by a significant impact, it sounds like the employer had a performance issue.

It also seems like sour grapes because this form of capitalism screws the employer instead of the employee.

That said, since .gov only works in their own self interest, I’m sure this is a way to screw all of us that aren’t voluntary campaign donors.

 

[Chuckman]

This is a big topic of discussion is academic medicine. Some hand-wringing going on.

 

[pinkbunny]

So you get out of optometry college, get a job where they treat you right and pay you really really good, and after two years you open up a competing clinic down the street and take all the patients you have met since graduation. That ain't right.

Why?
Your old company is the established company with lots of reviews and has already probably invested in buying all the optometry equipment.
You start a new company, with no reviews, and you have to purchase your own work space and equipment. You took on a ton of risk.
Way I see it, if a bunch of people leave an established company to join a risky new one, then that says something about how much they trust you, and how little they trust the old company.
To quote Alexander the Great, "change your name or change your actions."

 

[BlackGun]

I’ve worked at places that had non competes. One I knew would never effect me. The other job would and I threw it in the garbage bin. When I quit the one where I threw it away without signing it I quit that dung hole place 2 months later. The owner advised me of the non compete and I informed him it was not in my file. But he already was aware of it I’m sure. This was the day I went to get my check. He was furious and said I would never get my remaining checks until I came in and signed one. I refused and he stood in front of my wife’s car and wouldn’t let us leave. After I advised him kidnapping was a felony and told him we were going to run him over he moved.

Non competes have their place. As a business owner there is good reason for them to exist. Non competes have limits on the length of time, typically 2 years, jobs within 50 miles, or being in the same industry. There are lots of employees who take positions for short durations to steal companies information, customers, or technology. Non competes never hold up in court limiting a person from making a living where you take normal positions not detrimental to the prior company. This ruling will be challenged and overturned.

 

[Gator]

So you get out of optometry college, get a job where they treat you right and pay you really really good, and after two years you open up a competing clinic down the street and take all the patients you have met since graduation. That ain't right.

A gentleman who I have great respect for once told me , "People buy from people". This would be a good example of that.

.

 

[Button Pusher]

Will they have to pay reparations?

 

[Bigdave0924]

So you get out of optometry college, get a job where they treat you right and pay you really really good, and after two years you open up a competing clinic down the street and take all the patients you have met since graduation. That ain't right.

It's not nearly that easy but if that's how it works out so be it. Let the people decide who they spend their money with.

 

[Button Pusher]

My eye Dr. retired from a large practice, he took a job to help at a smaller one, it was located 1/10 of a mile past the zone defined in his noncompete.

 

[yellolab]

I just retired, but before that I worked for a $3B company under a non-compete. While it as viewed as largely non-enforceable/never enforced, I get the intent. The company shared with me mission critical information, and did not want me to take that to a competitor.

 

[MacEntyre]

When I was a Raytheon employee in commercial engineering, I had to sign over rights to anything I invented or patented, whether on the job or not.

 

[NCLivingBrit]

When I was a Raytheon employee in commercial engineering, I had to sign over rights to anything I invented or patented, whether on the job or not.

Sounds like a good way to guarantee nothing gets invented until 1 day after you leave.

 

[Exspiravit]

This is a big topic of discussion is academic medicine. Some hand-wringing going on.

Boohoo, our doctors might open up their own practice or go somewhere with better pay.
I'm so sad for the 2 or 3 systems who own the majority of healthcare in NC.

 

[MacEntyre]

No, you should be free to enter into an agreement or not.

This is the key. Non-competes that are reasonable in distance and duration are fine, especially if both parties agree.

 

[Chuckman]

Boohoo, our doctors might open up their own practice or go somewhere with better pay.
I'm so sad for the 2 or 3 systems who own the majority of healthcare in NC.

I try to not be around those discussions too much. I have my own problems lol. I guess a radiologist left for UNC and there were issues, one of which was what was personal property vs what was Duke intellectual property which she could not take nor from which she could financially benefit.

This is a great thing for the big-ass healthcare 'systems'.

 

[Jeppo]

Years into my job with the Eye-talians, a guy from Legal showed up in my office with a document he wanted signed. He explained the company was requiring all managers to sign a Non Compete. I responded in French but, I’m sure the Eyetalian understood anyway. 😂

 

[pinkbunny]

Sounds like a good way to guarantee nothing gets invented until 1 day after you leave.

Yeah, at Bank of America, we're required to submit one patent per year. So we all just make up BS that will get kicked back. Hey, we submitted.

Years into my job with the Eye-talians, a guy from Legal showed up in my office with a document he wanted signed. He explained the company was requiring all managers to sign a Non Compete. I responded in French but, I’m sure the Eyetalian understood anyway. 😂

Surrender?

 

[NCLivingBrit]

Yeah, at Bank of America, we're required to submit one patent per year. So we all just make up BS that will get kicked back. Hey, we submitted.

I mean the pay is garbage, the conditions are awful, the benefits are a joke..... But at least I'm not expected to fork over ideas on schedule for the corporation to exploit like some some of intellectual property Santa Claus.

 

[Exspiravit]

one of which was what was personal property vs what was Duke intellectual property which she could not take nor from which she could financially benefit.

Is that the one where there was a lawsuit because Duke and UNC had a handshake deal not to hire each other's doctors?
Or did the rad tech talk about Duke's super secret X-ray protocols and button pushing methods? Heaven forbid they disclose the kind of DEI training they are required to sit through yearly.

 

[pinkbunny]

I mean the pay is garbage, the conditions are awful, the benefits are a joke..... But at leary I'm not expected to fork over ideas on schedule for the corporation to exploit like some some of intellectual property Santa Claus.

Yeah, story I heard is that a few years back they got hit by some patent trolls, so the brilliant idea from some business guy is that if we make tons of patents, we can point to them in a lawsuit and claim that we're using our patent, not infringing.
'course, it forgets the idea that people act in their own self interest...

 

[fishgutzy]

F.T.C. Issues Ban on Worker Noncompete Clauses

The rule would prohibit companies from limiting their employees’ ability to work for rivals, a change that could increase competition and boost wages.

www.nytimes.com

This is interesting. I've had to sign one of these myself in the past and it felt like indentured servitude. Work for us or don't work at all.
There may be a downside to this somewhere but it seems like a win for freedom to me.

Non-compete clauses were unenforceable before this when they prevent someone from working. I have never had an employer have me sign an noncompete agreement. NDA, yes.
But this is certainly good news for those it may have applied to.
Sue Joy had to work behind the scenes for a couple years when she changed TV stations sever years ago. Today, she can go from front desk on one station right to another mid-week.

 

[Chuckman]

Is that the one where there was a lawsuit because Duke and UNC had a handshake deal not to hire each other's doctors?
Or did the rad tech talk about Duke's super secret X-ray protocols and button pushing methods? Heaven forbid they disclose the kind of DEI training they are required to sit through yearly.

That was part of it, the other part was a patent or something that the doc claimed was her, and Duke claimed it was its.

 

[yard mongrel]

If the sum totale of your business acumen can be pumped out of a low performance simpleton at an interview, there wasn’t much there to begin with.