getting rid of truely nonsense 'gun free' zones, why aren't we working on that?

Jayne

Jayne

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While we've got a majority and can do some good, why aren't we pushing for removal of the nonsensical of 'gun free' zones?

I get schools will be contested forever, but what about libraries and THE DUMP. Why exactly is the dump a gun free zone? Or the buildings in parks? I can carry in the park but not in the snack bar? Or the DMV. Just because it's a bureaucratic hot spot doesn't preclude legal carry.

Clear out the nonsense and make some solid rules going forward on exactly what's required for new 'gun free' zones so that when we lose the majority we don't end up with everything being 'sensitive' because of the feels as we're seeing in the crappy states.
 
If the penalties are particularly onerous, i.e. educational facilities, government buildings, etc, I either avoid them, or comply, but usually avoid.

Everything else is usually 65 in a 55. Right?

It’s all about risk reward/penalty.
 
not enough legal action or strongly worded letters coming from our side. Michigan has Michigan Gun Owners, Michigan Open Carry, and Michigan Coalition of Responsible Gun Owners - all 3 are non-profit civil rights groups that have lawyers on retainer to do what needs to be done.
NC has GRNC and who else? GRNC is already fighting at full capacity on what they think they have a chance to win.

Oh, I know... call the NRA. I'm sure they'll help.

I will admit that even with 3 gun groups fighting up north, their laws are getting worse and worse because of the lock the libs have on the gubmint up there for the last few years. purple is going blue all over.
 
In Raleigh, about ten years ago all the water towers old and new had 'no gun' signs posted on the chain link fences. They disappeared for some reason.
 
You bring up a great point. We should pick up on a couple plays from the other side. We should be working hard to chip away at all the easy targets. Making concealed carry more normalized, so when we do take on hardened targets like schools, it’s not that wild of an idea. Exactly what they have been doing with gender identity.
 
You can get yourself some cards that say "no guns, no money" and go to all the places of business you know that are posted and have a word with management while leaving a card.

Free "No Guns, No Money" Cards

Free 'No Guns, No Money' Cards at LearnToCarry.com - Educate and enlighten business owners who post signs that discriminate against customers with ccw permits!
www.learntocarry.com www.learntocarry.com
 
fieldgrade said:
If the penalties are particularly onerous, i.e. educational facilities, government buildings, etc, I either avoid them, or comply, but usually avoid.
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Right, why are the penalties for "government buildings" so onerous? Let's get that set back to the same as Harris Teeter.

fieldgrade said:
Everything else is usually 65 in a 55. Right?
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I've heard that.... but would never think it.
 
noway2 said:
The dump is off limits? Damn if I knew, and I guess my dog Daisy isn’t going to get her treats from the dump lady :(

Seriously, though, I agree 100% and you raise a valid point.
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The Chatham county trash/recycle drop off centers used to be posted, but I think those signs are gone now. Are we talking about specific counties, or maybe only the main county dump facility?
 
Problem was… getting the CC permit was difficult or impossible for most people.
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“Gun Free Zones” were a state’s response to not only reverse the USSC, but to make things even worse than before.
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So if the vast majority of the people could not get concealed permits to begin with, it doesn't sound like very many actually ended up being negatively affected. But, yes, I see your point.
 
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noway2 said:
The dump is off limits? Damn if I knew, and I guess my dog Daisy isn’t going to get her treats from the dump lady :(

Seriously, though, I agree 100% and you raise a valid point.
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yeah, all dumps around here have the no guns rules posted. though one of the full time ladies that ran the local dump site is my neighbor, and she told me she didn't mind one bit when good people carry there, because she'd had one or two good folks help her out with some grumpy junkies in the past. I told her i'd still 100% comply with the laws, and suddenly not have a gun with me when i pulled in to drop off stuff.
 
Jayne said:
While we've got a majority and can do some good, why aren't we pushing for removal of the nonsensical of 'gun free' zones?

I get schools will be contested forever, but what about libraries and THE DUMP. Why exactly is the dump a gun free zone? Or the buildings in parks? I can carry in the park but not in the snack bar? Or the DMV. Just because it's a bureaucratic hot spot doesn't preclude legal carry.

Clear out the nonsense and make some solid rules going forward on exactly what's required for new 'gun free' zones so that when we lose the majority we don't end up with everything being 'sensitive' because of the feels as we're seeing in the crappy states.
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The answer to your question is simple. MONEY.

Example: The ILA branch of the NRA is there to fight anti gun laws. To do so they need money. Same thing for the opposite side of the isle. They need money to fight the NRA/ILA. If either side actually wins the battle the war is over and the money drys up. So neither side wants a win. They want a well funded war.
 
Schattenreiter said:
To do so they need money. Same thing for the opposite side of the isle. They need money to fight the NRA/ILA.
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And they have it. Your tax dollars at work. Endless resources. So you're paying your enemy to take away your rights and then have to pay again, to fight for them
 
Toprudder said:
So if the vast majority of the people could not get concealed permits to begin with, it doesn't sound like very many actually ended up being negatively affected. But, yes, I see your point.
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Everyone was negatively affected before by the onerous system in place to get a permit. Let's not forget that you need a permit to even buy a pistol.

Depending on the county, the permitting process would take anywhere from 6 to 24 months. It would cost, in average, $150 - $200.

With the changes after Bruen, it will now take a year at least and cost ~$500+. And it's essentially no good outside of your property.
 
I was sitting with the branch manager at our credit union. After our business was done, I asked how to contact a big-wig able to influence policy. She asked what was the issue. I mentioned that their gun buster signs made certain that only criminals would enter the branch with firearms. The policy did nothing more than putting employees and customers at increased risk.

She told me to forget it. She herself must disarm before coming to work and no amount of conversation “upstairs” did any good at all.
 
Some of it is natural laziness. Groups hit up the downtown Durham merchants and gave them free "no guns" stickers for their doors. I have personally convinced 3 merchants to remove theirs, but they were not willing to have "legal carry welcome here" signs because of the Karens.

We are far behind the left in normalizing behaviors.
 
Ferrisfan said:
Some of it is natural laziness. Groups hit up the downtown Durham merchants and gave them free "no guns" stickers for their doors. I have personally convinced 3 merchants to remove theirs, but they were not willing to have "legal carry welcome here" signs because of the Karens.

We are far behind the left in normalizing behaviors.
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Even though our behaviors are the "normal" ones.
 
Me. said:
To sum up… the Supreme Court of the US said people have the right to carry. “Gun Free Zones” were a state’s response to not only reverse the USSC, but to make things even worse than before.
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Exactly. We're going to go backwards on this before too long. OK, here's your permit or your constitutional carry.... but you can't actually carry anywhere because the whole world is a sensitive place.

GRNC is going big on constitutional carry but since that seems to be going nowhere, get on with keeping the permits we do have actually useful. The karens will hear about blood in the streets when everyone is carrying, but maybe they won't notice when some criminal penalties are reduced or removed. I mean, those penalties disproportionately affect women and minorities don't ya know.
 
Don't get too frustrated.

The issue of gun rights will ALWAYS be a battlefield where the lines will move back and forth.

While it may seem bad, we've made great strides since the 70s, which was arguably the height of the gun control period for many reasons. Reciprocity today is phenomenal in comparison. The Firearms Owner Protection Act of 1986 is significant. The demise of the Federal Assault Weapons Ban of 1994 was huge (even given it was due to a 10 year time limit). The recent wins in the Supreme Court such as the Heller and Bruen cases.

You do have a good point...but the plain truth of the matter is that we HAVE been pushing back and we HAVE been making very significant gains. We just can't fight every battle all at once. They have to be very strategically planned and fought, not only to gain victories, but to gain significant ones which have a solid and lasting foundation which lends itself to both longevity and the bedrock from which to continue pushing back.

And we ARE making gains in some of the areas you mentioned. They may be "silent" gains, but they are there nonetheless.

I know for a fact that "no guns" signs have come down in many places over the years. While this doesn't have anything to do with the laws themselves which make certain areas "gun free", it's getting there. Restaurants, banks, malls, etc. And some places have pushed back enough to get firearms IN SCHOOLS. Currently there are 32 states which allow teachers and staff to carry.

 
RetiredUSNChief said:
Don't get too frustrated.

The issue of gun rights will ALWAYS be a battlefield where the lines will move back and forth.
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So I want GRNC to start working on things that impact our lives in a positive way now while they pursue the big ticket items. Use the liberal playbook, call out for the world to draw everyone's attention and then chip away at things in the background.
 
Jayne said:
So I want GRNC to start working on things that impact our lives in a positive way now while they pursue the big ticket items. Use the liberal playbook, call out for the world to draw everyone's attention and then chip away at things in the background.
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GRNC is always looking for volunteers and alert writers.
I was pretty active in the 2nd rights community in Illinois before I moved. I've gotten lazy. Honestly I'm nearly burned out from the constant vigilance and seeming futility of the efforts. That said, when I was involved in that it was frustrating to read comments on the boards about how Illinois Carry, Guns Save Life, ISRA failed coming from people who didn't help in the effort. They didn't call the reps or write letters or show up to the capital on lobby day. They expected everything to be done for them and could only offer spittle laden tirades about how the rights groups failed to hold off or unwind millions of dollars of Bloomberg money influence from pushing through bad legislation.
I'm guessing that if you want something specific worked on and volunteer to lead the effort GRNC would welcome the help.
 
Timfoilhat said:
GRNC is always looking for volunteers and alert writers.
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I've contacted them several times about volunteering, never heard back. So, I just make my monthly donation and bitch about things on the internet.
 
Jayne said:
Use the liberal playbook, call out for the world to draw everyone's attention and then chip away at things in the background.
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Paul Valone wrote a book “Rules for Anti-Radicals” that is worth reading. It is basically a playbook on how to use the leftist methods against the leftists.
 
Jayne said:
So I want GRNC to start working on things that impact our lives in a positive way now while they pursue the big ticket items. Use the liberal playbook, call out for the world to draw everyone's attention and then chip away at things in the background.
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Work with them, then.

Hasn't NC just recently made a significant step forward for gun rights activists, for example? No more pistol permit requirements now, as I recall.

The problem with the "liberal playbook" is that they quite often use outright lies and deceptions. If you use their playbook, make sure you leave that part out.

If you don't, all you end up doing is giving them ammunition to use against you because they can easily point out your own lies as such.

Much of the liberal gun control effort is, in fact, centered around lies and deceptions. Which is why I point this out. It's their biggest weakness. Just be sure you don't also make it their biggest strength by using the same tactic.
 
Jayne said:
I've contacted them several times about volunteering, never heard back. So, I just make my monthly donation and bitch about things on the internet.
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have you considered tracking them down so you can be the guy who answers people when they try to contact?

I would imagine they are sometimes hit with "i want to help" messages that don't pan out (guilty). I'm still a board member of Michigan Gun Owners - and they didn't have enough people to volunteer to run for election to even make monthly phone calls or vote in the board portion of the forum they're already using. I didn't re-run for the election last time around, but they reappointed me anyway, because there just weren't enough people willing to do anything. I have very much drifted away from there, but when they need to make quorum via phone or need one more vote, they'll send me a text and I'll jump on to review motions.

Yes, in MICHIGAN, which is rapidly becoming the new left coast... they couldn't get gun owners to step up. I used to go to events there and there was usually a core of 5-10 people... same volunteers every time, same few faces showing up to testify, etc.
 
RetiredUSNChief said:
Hasn't NC just recently made a significant step forward for gun rights activists, for example? No more pistol permit requirements now, as I recall.
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yes, and they really had to fight for it with the full veto override. The hardest victory. And with that... we have the exact same thing as before, but will less bureaucracy. Winning... but not really anything _new_.

we know that even with permit-free carry, if the libs take over then we'll lose rights quickly as seen in every state that now has to issue. without protections in place there is nothing stopping it. At least get some road blocks in the way for the next time.

RetiredUSNChief said:
If you don't, all you end up doing is giving them ammunition to use against you because they can easily point out your own lies as such.
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how has outright lying hurt the anti-gun movement at all? I'm not saying we should do that part, but I don't see it hurting them in any way. if anything even calling out the lies is used against us.
 
DrScaryGuy said:
have you considered tracking them down so you can be the guy who answers people when they try to contact?
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That's kinda funny. Hi, I noticed you didn't response to my previous offers to volunteer, so perhaps you need someone to volunteer to answer the volunteer emails?

That's not a bad idea though.
 
Jayne said:
yes, and they really had to fight for it with the full veto override. The hardest victory. And with that... we have the exact same thing as before, but will less bureaucracy. Winning... but not really anything _new_.

we know that even with permit-free carry, if the libs take over then we'll lose rights quickly as seen in every state that now has to issue. without protections in place there is nothing stopping it. At least get some road blocks in the way for the next time.



how has outright lying hurt the anti-gun movement at all? I'm not saying we should do that part, but I don't see it hurting them in any way. if anything even calling out the lies is used against us.
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I didn't say outright lying hurt the anti-gun movement. I said WE can't do or condone that because that would give them actual legitimate ammunition to use against US.
 
RetiredUSNChief said:
I didn't say outright lying hurt the anti-gun movement. I said WE can't do or condone that because that would give them actual legitimate ammunition to use against US.
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The lying hasn't hurt them, for a couple of reasons. 1) WE have not been good enough or loud enough when we point out their lies 2) The people that listen to them don't listen to us, they accept everything the liberal media feeds them, and the liberal media won't publish our side.

I guarantee that if WE lie, the media will be quick to point it out.
 
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Toprudder said:
The lying hasn't hurt them, for a couple of reasons. 1) WE have not been good enough or loud enough when we point out their lies 2) The people that listen to them don't listen to us, they accept everything the liberal media feeds them, and the liberal media won't publish our side.
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If everything we might say is ignored, then how can we be good/loud enough to make a difference? Sounds like a fools game, speak the truth and be ignored, speak a lie and be 'pointed out'? At least with the lies they would be listening, but then to what end?

Such a strange game.
 
Jayne said:
If everything we might say is ignored, then how can we be good/loud enough to make a difference? Sounds like a fools game, speak the truth and be ignored, speak a lie and be 'pointed out'? At least with the lies they would be listening, but then to what end?

Such a strange game.
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It's tough because they control the media. If the media would do it's job without slant anybody's lies would be clearly shown as lies.
 
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Jayne said:
If everything we might say is ignored, then how can we be good/loud enough to make a difference? Sounds like a fools game, speak the truth and be ignored, speak a lie and be 'pointed out'? At least with the lies they would be listening, but then to what end?

Such a strange game.
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Yes, it is a strange game.

I believe we should make the truth sound so outrageous that the media couldn't help but broadcast it. Then, anyone who would do any research would find out it is true.
 
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