Going back to irons

Tim

Tim

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Anybody transitioned BACK to irons for competitive pistol?

I’ve been shooting a dot for a couple years now and still struggle with finding the dot from time to time. ESPECIALLY when I’m gassed during a Run n Gun. 2/3-Gun Matches, when I’m a bit more settled pre-stage, don’t seem to be as much of an issue.

Anybody done this?
 
My next range session, I’ll break out the 5.25” XD(m) that I ran for a dozen years and shoot it back to back with the dot-equipped Sig X-5 I’ve run for the last 2 years.

That’ll really tell the difference
 
I shoot in competitions and a few folks I know shoot with dots for the first 10 months of the year and then switch to irons for the last 2 months. They all said they are faster with dots but really enjoy irons.
I'm more accurate with a dot but find I can transition targets quicker with irons. But, that's just me and everyone is different.
I'm not in the carry optics division so don't have to compete against them most of the year.
Funny... when I go to Practiscore after a match I scroll down past the CO guys to find my score. Lol. So, in competitions the dots generally win "Overall Score". I just let them duke it and focus on my division.
 
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I feel ya.

I want to like them but I struggle with finding the dot. So far staying with irons with highlighted front dot.

And while I admit I don't know it all, I have been a shooter for almost 50 years, an officer that shot/shoots "expert" or "master" every year for 34/35 years so far, was a firearms instructor for 16 years, and been to some 2 and 3 day classes on handguns, and when I post here or other places about not finding the dots, many will start posting Handgun 101 tips like I MUST be a new shooter if I don't like red dots and can't shoot them as fast as irons. I was checking out at a large gun shop a few months ago with my father-in-law who is a newer shooter so to speak, and he asked me about them. The clerk heard me telling him my feelings, and he said that he and couple other guys there had started switching back to irons only for that and other reasons.
 
I have an astigmatism in my non-dominant eye and the dot actually looks like a triange of tiny dots... I see several and not just one dominant dot. Always wondering witch one to use. With irons no problem. I shoot with Truglow TFX Pro fiber optic irons... and with outdoor light the darn front sight glows like an electronic dot. Easy to see... for my eyes at least. Almost feels like cheating.

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A lot may depend on the types of matches you shoot most often- what degree of accuracy is required for most shots ? Some rule sets are any 2 hits on brown is good , while others may require a more precise shot. For me - I am much better with a dot at far shots and/or shots that reward higher precision, on any given day our pistol matches often have shots out to 40 yards or might have a lot of little 4” steel plates at 10-25 yards
 
IMO, dots require more dryfire. And, it's a more difficult transition than people think because it is a transition from sight focus to target focus.

I'd still use irons if I could see them. But I enjoy red dots.
 
Yes and no. All that is true but I haven't given up on it yet and I'll carry either/or. Support hand only is my biggest problem. I just can't seem to train the left hand to present me with a dot.
 
I have a very thin Dawson front post and can hit pretty small targets with it that I can’t with my red dot at distances as easily
 
MacEntyre said:
I finally found a use for a pistol red dot... mounted it on a Ruger Gunsite Scout Rifle in 308. 👌
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Thats similar to me finding the best use for my Blackhawk single point sling (which was all the rage back in the late 2000's-a buddy that did some Blackwater contracting swore by them and said "almost everyone over there is running them"). I ran one for about a year and after a 3-day, 750 round carbine course, I hated it.

It now resides on my weedeater. :p
 
Big Dave said:
Thats similar to me finding the best use for my Blackhawk single point sling (which was all the rage back in the late 2000's-a buddy that did some Blackwater contracting swore by them and said "almost everyone over there is running them"). I ran one for about a year and after a 3-day, 750 round carbine course, I hated it.

It now resides on my weedeater. :p
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Damn that’s a good idea
 
Red Marley said:
I am happy to see this thread and learn that some are going back to iron sights
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I haven't made the switch yet. I'm going to set up a 'qualifier' type stage for my next range visit and see what the shot timer has to say.
 
What dot are you using, and do you have cowitness irons?
 
Supermatch said:
What dot are you using, and do you have cowitness irons?
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Essentially a Holosun 509t, it's the model cut specifically for a P320. I have a front sight, but not a rear.

Not really looking for training/acclimatization tips here; I've run the dot long enough, dry fired and competed enough to know where I'm at with it. At this point I just need to figure out if I've hit *my* max potential or if the gear is a factor.
 
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Tim said:
Essentially a Holosun 509t, it's the model cut specifically for a P320. I have a front sight, but not a rear.

Not really looking for training/acclimatization tips here; I've run the dot long enough, dry fired and competed enough to know where I'm at with it. At this point I just need to figure out if I've hit *my* max potential or if the gear is a factor.
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It’s always the gear. You need to go buy the latest and greatest red dot pistol. 👻

At least that’s what I tell my wife.
 
Tim said:
Essentially a Holosun 509t, it's the model cut specifically for a P320. I have a front sight, but not a rear.

Not really looking for training/acclimatization tips here; I've run the dot long enough, dry fired and competed enough to know where I'm at with it. At this point I just need to figure out if I've hit *my* max potential or if the gear is a factor.
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Reason I ask is that I am accurate to longer distances with the dot. It's a combination of my ability to focus and the front sight obscuring what I'm aiming at on smaller targets or focus areas. For me, it's a wash under 10 yards, but is a tangible difference at 15 yds+.

When I'm tired, my speed with the dot-only pistol goes down somewhat because I also hunt for the dot as form breaks down - and in turn, end up with more bad shots as I try to make up for lost time.

On my cowitness pistols, my speed doesn't drop off as much. I didn't know why at first, but the result was consistent. I later realized that I was compensating for bad form by instinctively using the cowitness irons to regain alignment faster. Not that its a great practice, but I find the cowitness setup presented the fastest, most accurate all-around combination for me, for the simple fact that yes, you will recompose yourself more quickly when you have more than one reference point to use to regain alignment.
 
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Never tried a dot, but I spend too much money on this hobby already. Not to mention, it's one more thing to break.

I also drive a cheapo compact hatchback with manual locks, manual windows, and a standard transmission. I like my stuff to be simple and dirt cheap to maintain.
 
In order to shoot irons, I have to change my eyeglasses from my daily-wear progressive lenses to my shooting lenses.
Then, when I am not shooting, such as writing down a score, I have to put the other ones back on.

It reminds me of Fred Sanford swapping eyeglasses just to find other eyeglasses.

For the dot equipped pistols, I can keep on my regular daily-wear glasses.
 
It’s fun to shoot irons every once in a while. I prefer irons for precision matches because they conceal wobble better and “settle” more. Irons are nice for practical shooting whenever I get in a rut of staring at my dot (dot occlusion is not an option with my astigmatism).

I don’t get the motivation for doing it, though, in this thread.

Look at thing, point gun at thing, put lens between eye and thing. If the gun is not pointed near my visual focus (i.e. dot off the glass on the draw or coming onto a target after transition), I am not fixing the problem (having a soup sandwich grip) by switching sights.

I am fixing the grip until the gun points where I look.
 
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When ammo gets cheap again ill spend the 10k rounds to relearn the red dot. Its fine for me to draw and shoot. But you put in some movement and i play the find the dot game.
 
I’ve spent the past 4-5 years training with several RDS equipped glocks including a G47 with holosun SCS allowing for the lowest possible height over bore. Despite all these rounds and practice, none of my carry pistols have a red dot. While the dot lends itself to precision and speed under ideal conditions, there are too many scenarios where the benefits of the red dot turn into a liability. For me these include compromised shooting positions, transitioning to non-dominant hand, shooting one handed, lint or water/sweat occlusion of the window and potential for dot failure. In my hands irons are straight reliable and caveman simple. For my purposes the juice of the red dot is not worth the squeeze.
 
I've never been able to really run dots with my astigmatism, so I've run XS Big Dots on my carry guns that I have used for local comps and have never looked back
 
NKD said:
IMO, dots require more dryfire. And, it's a more difficult transition than people think because it is a transition from sight focus to target focus.

I'd still use irons if I could see them. But I enjoy red dots.
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Sight focus is only for like 25+yds with irons.
The dot made me significantly faster with irons, because it broke me of focusing on the sights, made my index really consistent, and showed me everything I was lying to myself about in dry fire. The dot was faster at distance, inside 15yds or so it had to be a really small target for the dot to win decisively.
Someday I'm gonna shoot again.
 
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Beef15 said:
Sight focus is only for like 25+yds with irons.
The dot made me significantly faster with irons, because it broke me of focusing on the sights, made my index really consistent, and showed me everything I was lying to myself about in dry fire. The dot was faster at distance, inside 15yds or so it had to be a really small target for the dot to win decisively.
Someday I'm gonna shoot again.
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Truth.
I am still struggling with target focus a bit. Getting better but still working it. I wish I would have started out of the gate with that on irons.
But was taught front sight focus at first. Actually, it was beat into my head with a bat. By many of the very same guys who were preaching front sight focus ten years ago, lol.

BUT I think saying "only for 25+" is using an arbitrary number. Why not 21? What about a headshot at 17 with a noshoot in front of it?
I guess this is the stuff we hash out in range practice.

Some day I am gonna shoot again too!
 
I always find myself "looking for the dot" prefer the irons even at my age. Guess I'm spoiled using Bomar Rib Sights for so long
Some say "practice, practice ", still find myself looking for it from time to time. Reminds me of the old says with scopes gotta have that position just right.

-Snoopz
 
NKD said:
Truth.
I am still struggling with target focus a bit. Getting better but still working it. I wish I would have started out of the gate with that on irons.
But was taught front sight focus at first. Actually, it was beat into my head with a bat. By many of the very same guys who were preaching front sight focus ten years ago, lol.

BUT I think saying "only for 25+" is using an arbitrary number. Why not 21? What about a headshot at 17 with a noshoot in front of it?
I guess this is the stuff we hash out in range practice.

Some day I am gonna shoot again too!
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It is arbitrary, will be different for everyone. I walked it back a bit with the small target being slow bit.
 
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At the Coastal Carolina Tier III IDPA match in 2023, Carry Optics placed 7 of the top 10, 14 of 20, 22 of 30, 26 of 40, 29 of 50. It seems the top shooters are about 70% optics, and it falls off a little after that. I shot the Carolina Cup Tier III at True North in October 2020 with optics, and then, for reasons unknown, went back to irons. I have often wondered how much better I would be placing now if I had stuck to optics for the last 3.5 years. Approaching my 70th birthday, I know I won't really get any faster. I am leaning toward optics for the future so I can shoot target focused and not have to worry about which glasses give me the best front sight focus. My far vision is still pretty good.

Here's a video from 1994 and all these guys were shooting optics then.

 
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