Handguns in hospitals in NC

noway2

noway2

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I guess being in the country makes a difference. When I worked security at an Eden hospital the cops would advise us to secure handguns found on patients and pass them discreetly to a chosen relative. One guy didn't have anyone so we secured it in a locked box, in a locked cabinet and waited for him to come back post er visit.

People who brought their carry gun in otherwise were asked to take it back to their vehicle or leave. We had 1 armed and 1 unarmed officer per shift.
 
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Many hospitals are owned by universities, including UNC, Duke, and Rex, and fall under the category of educational property. Which makes carry in there a high end felony.

In the recent Raleigh shooting, the shooter winds up on the table in the ER. It would not be difficult to foresee the family of a victim busting into an ER and killing the POS.

I've seen it said many times on this forum that if someone wants to disarm us, they assume a responsibility for our safety. Seems like that's what the cops were doing. I'd prefer to keep my own gun, but given the circumstances and the neighborhood around the hospital, I'm not sure I have a problem with this.
 
I think given the active shooter situation and the uncertainty of who actually was the shooter that the RPD was being cautious and I don’t like what they did BUT Wake med is a private entity and can legally ask you not to carry and I respect their right to do that even if I do not agree to it. That being said almost all hospitals in major systems are posted anyways
 
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My wife used to work in the hospital er. There was a shooting in town and they brought the victim there. Cops were all around and a gangbanger walked into the hospital with a gun to finish him off. Let’s just say after that he needed medical attention after being tackled to the ground.
 
This is a healthy discussion on M4C right now. One of our colleagues here who used to be a Duke cop has been good with education since most of the guys on that thread are not from NC.

Duke is a no-go, UNC is a no-go, and Wake is a no-go.

When we've had things like this in Durham, though, neither Durham PD nor Duke PD have done anything like that. We lock down the ED, and people can come in the waiting room through the metal detectors and wands like always.
 
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Radar said:
I think given the active shooter situation and the uncertainty of who actually was the shooter that the RPD was being cautious and I don’t like what they did BUT Wake med is a private entity and can legally ask you not to carry and I respect their right to do that even if I do not agree to it. That being said almost all hospitals in major systems are posted anyways
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I don’t think that extends to to RPD frisking people outside the hospital. Much of this was happening in a parking deck.
 
MostWanted said:
In the recent Raleigh shooting, the shooter winds up on the table in the ER. It would not be difficult to foresee the family of a victim busting into an ER and killing the POS.
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You know what would stop that? A law against carrying in a hospital, backed up with the added authority of a sign. Nothing stops crime like a law and a sign.
 
Ferrisfan said:
I don’t think that extends to to RPD frisking people outside the hospital. Much of this was happening in a parking deck.
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That’s a bit over bearing I agree, but the parking deck IS still Wake Med property so they can ask them to enforce any ban once you exit your car. Now, the stop and frisking that’s a big issue related to its constitutionality that is far above my pay grade But I agree It’s seems a bit too much.
 
Chuckman said:
This is a healthy discussion on M4C right now. One of our colleagues here who used to be a Duke cop has been good with education since most of the guys on that thread are not from NC.

Duke is a no-go, UNC is a no-go, and Wake is a no-go.

When we've had things like this in Durham, though, neither Durham PD nor Duke PD have done anything like that. We lock down the ED, and people can come in the waiting room through the metal detectors and wands like always.
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Exactly that’s a more controlled lock down approach. The video showed by Mr guns and gear was actually the Entrance to the ER waiting room like what typically happens. I didn’t see it being done in the videos in the parking lot.
 
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Chuckman said:
When we've had things like this in Durham, though, neither Durham PD nor Duke PD have done anything like that. We lock down the ED, and people can come in the waiting room through the metal detectors and wands like always.
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funny because the policy didn't prevent my colleague from being killed at work
www.wbur.org

A Look At Dr. Michael Davidson, The Surgeon Fatally Shot At The Brigham

Davidson, 44, of Wellesley, was the director of endovascular cardiac surgery at Brigham and Women’s Hospital.
www.wbur.org www.wbur.org

nor this surgeon just a few months ago
www.q13fox.com

Doctor killed in Tulsa hospital shooting worked at Swedish

A surgeon who was killed in a shooting at a Tulsa, Okla., medical office had spent part of his career in Seattle.
www.q13fox.com www.q13fox.com

nor the LEO's weapon from being used by an assailant right here in NC
www.wral.com

After investigation into shooting at Duke hospital, Durham DA recommends new policy for guns in ER

The Durham DA's office used body camera footage, 911 calls, police records and reports and autopsy findings to determine that Duke University 1st Sgt. Lex Allan Popovich used necessary force to shoot and kill Raishawn Steven Jones as Jones struggled with Officer Christopher Stone of the Durham...
www.wral.com www.wral.com

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regardless of policy, one's safety is not even remotely ensured in any hospital. not even close. and yet there is nowhere else one can go for legit medical care. do entire medical centers fall under the "sensitive places" outlined in the various SCOTUS decisions? Doubtful. at this point if someone wants to harm a hospital employee, it would probably be easier to target them at their place of work because one knows they are disarmed. the policies are absurd and no different than making schools "no-gun-zones" then being surprised when psychopaths target them.
 
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92G said:
funny because the policy didn't prevent my colleague from being killed at work
www.wbur.org

A Look At Dr. Michael Davidson, The Surgeon Fatally Shot At The Brigham

Davidson, 44, of Wellesley, was the director of endovascular cardiac surgery at Brigham and Women’s Hospital.
www.wbur.org www.wbur.org

nor the LEO's weapon from being used by an assailant
www.wral.com

After investigation into shooting at Duke hospital, Durham DA recommends new policy for guns in ER

The Durham DA's office used body camera footage, 911 calls, police records and reports and autopsy findings to determine that Duke University 1st Sgt. Lex Allan Popovich used necessary force to shoot and kill Raishawn Steven Jones as Jones struggled with Officer Christopher Stone of the Durham...
www.wral.com www.wral.com

--
regardless of policy, one's safety is not even remotely ensured in any hospital. not even close. and yet there is nowhere else one can go for legit medical care. do entire medical centers fall under the "sensitive places" outlined the various SCOTUS decisions? Doubtful.
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Agreed the policy sucks for legal gun owners and protection of one’s own self
 
92G said:
funny because the policy didn't prevent my colleague from being killed at work
www.wbur.org

A Look At Dr. Michael Davidson, The Surgeon Fatally Shot At The Brigham

Davidson, 44, of Wellesley, was the director of endovascular cardiac surgery at Brigham and Women’s Hospital.
www.wbur.org www.wbur.org

nor the LEO's weapon from being used by an assailant
www.wral.com

After investigation into shooting at Duke hospital, Durham DA recommends new policy for guns in ER

The Durham DA's office used body camera footage, 911 calls, police records and reports and autopsy findings to determine that Duke University 1st Sgt. Lex Allan Popovich used necessary force to shoot and kill Raishawn Steven Jones as Jones struggled with Officer Christopher Stone of the Durham...
www.wral.com www.wral.com

--
regardless of policy, one's safety is not even remotely ensured in any hospital. not even close.
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I would submit few things are 100% foolproof.

Hospitals by nature are porous. That said, all ICUs and the ED are locked, so badge entry but even those can be defeated.

I know more about the Duke incident than I am allowed to discuss.

Generally I like our policy; we have kept rival bangers out of the ED, so we know it works (but not perfectly). But the policy is more than just 'no guns' and metal detectors, too.

Sorry about your friend.
 
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Radar said:
Exactly that’s a more controlled lock down approach. The video showed by Mr guns and gear was actually the Entrance to the ER waiting room like what typically happens. I didn’t see it being done in the videos in the parking lot.
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I am apparently wrong.

The video is saw yesterday looked like the cars lined up on the road and were frisking the people walking along the road to the hospital. That was also on the Mr. Guns N Gear channel, so if he’s not showing it today, it must have been debunked.
 
Chuckman said:
I would submit few things are 100% foolproof.

Hospitals by nature are porous. That said, all ICUs and the ED are locked, so badge entry but even those can be defeated.

I know more about the Duke incident than I am allowed to discuss.

Generally I like our policy; we have kept rival bangers out of the ED, so we know it works (but not perfectly). But the policy is more than just 'no guns' and metal detectors, too.

Sorry about your friend.
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my issue with the policy is not folks like yourself who clearly understand the importance of striking some type of balance in a "sensitive area". unfortunately the leadership that develops and implements these policies aim to 1) collect data about their "effectiveness" and 2) implement them everywhere else. A fine example is inside an airplane. I would consider that to fall under "sensitive place" as outlined in SCOTUS decisions. But as Thomas has pointed out the govt has to make a clear explanation for why a sensitive place is so and it must also be based in tradition of the 2A. Here it becomes obvious that many current laws forced upon us are unconstitutional.
 
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Ferrisfan said:
I am apparently wrong.

The video is saw yesterday looked like the cars lined up on the road and were frisking the people walking along the road to the hospital. That was also on the Mr. Guns N Gear channel, so if he’s not showing it today, it must have been debunked.
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Yeah It might have been. I admit I didn’t watch the GNG video until today so you might be correct
 
92G said:
my issue with the policy is not folks like yourself who clearly understand the importance of striking some type of balance in a "sensitive area". unfortunately the leadership that develops and implements these policies aim to 1) collect data about their "effectiveness" and 2) implement them everywhere else. A fine example is inside an airplane. I would consider that to fall under "sensitive place" as outlined in SCOTUS decisions. But as Thomas has pointed out the govt has to make a clear explanation for why a sensitive place is so and it must also be based in tradition of the 2A. Here it becomes obvious that many current laws forced upon us are unconstitutional.
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I agree, 'they' want to strike a 'one size fits none' policy, and it can never work.
 
MrGunsAndGear is correct, we live in a police state, and are conditioned to that tyranny. Remember what happened in Boston when they were looking for the marathon bombers? Cat's been long outa the bag, not much we can do until we govern ourselves, instead of being governed.
 
falconew said:
My wife used to work in the hospital er. There was a shooting in town and they brought the victim there. Cops were all around and a gangbanger walked into the hospital with a gun to finish him off. Let’s just say after that he needed medical attention after being tackled to the ground.
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And yet another example of uneven playing field. Posted area didn’t prevent the criminal from breaking the law.
 
MacEntyre said:
MrGunsAndGear is correct, we live in a police state, and are conditioned to that tyranny. Remember what happened in Boston when they were looking for the marathon bombers? Cat's been long outa the bag, not much we can do until we govern ourselves, instead of being governed.
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You mean when they were forcing people out of their own homes at gunpoint in order to search for the bomber, even though the families were already locked down and insisting there was no threat in their house? Or when they were pointing rifles at people who dared to look out their windows at them?
I remember, even if google image search has forgotten
 
DrScaryGuy said:
You mean when they were forcing people out of their own homes at gunpoint in order to search for the bomber, even though the families were already locked down and insisting there was no threat in their house? Or when they were pointing rifles at people who dared to look out their windows at them?
I remember, even if google image search has forgotten
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If the bomber was in my house and I was still alive enough to answer the door, I imagine I would be dead within seconds along with my dogs.
 
Why is Mr guns and gear not a member here if he is from NC \SC ??
 
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MostWanted said:
I've seen it said many times on this forum that if someone wants to disarm us, they assume a responsibility for our safety. Seems like that's what the cops were doing. I'd prefer to keep my own gun, but given the circumstances and the neighborhood around the hospital, I'm not sure I have a problem with this.
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So, are you saying that you are OK with cops engaging in unlawful search and seizure if it is to allegedly keep people safe, because that is what was happening.
 
People complain because they take an extra precaution with active shootings going on to make sure no possible shooters get in the hospital with a gun. Let one gun get in that hospital and start taking people out and watch these same people complaining blame the police.
 
Walkabout Dan said:
People complain because they take an extra precaution with active shootings going on to make sure no possible shooters get in the hospital with a gun. Let one gun get in that hospital and start taking people out and watch these same people complaining blame the police.
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Still there are limits placed upon cops and stop and frisk type tactics are a violation of those limits. We might all be safer in a time totalitarian police state, too.
 
Walkabout Dan said:
Tell us how you would make sure no gun got in under the same situation.
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I am not certain that you can. And even if there is no other way, I am still going to oppose a rights violation to achieve it. Unfortunately, for better or worse, that may be part of the price of living in a free society where there are limits on the govt and especially on the police.
 
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noway2 said:
I am not certain that you can. And even if there is no other way, I am still going to oppose a rights violation to achieve it. Unfortunately, for better or worse, that may be part of the price of living in a free society where there are limits on the govt and especially on the police.
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How is anyones rights being violated when your being searched because it is a no guns zone which is the hospitals right ?
 
Walkabout Dan said:
How is anyones rights being violated when your being searched because it is a no guns zone which is the hospitals right ?
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Yeah, kinda have to go with this. To me it fits in the property rights. They have, in my opinion, the right to search/ban certain things on their property. Good for the goose is good for the gander and all. My main issue is the sudden change of policy. I.e. if they post that everyone >entering< will be searched, then I know where the goalpost is and can react accordingly. But then they move that goalpost to the parking deck with no notice then there isn’t time to amend one’s situation.

I could see someone like myself rushing to the hospital to see someone, approaching the door and seeing the scanners and think “I need to head back to the car and disarm”. No harm no foul. But suddenly I jump out of the car and the cops are on me? Not so much. Give people time/warning enough to do the right thing.(by their definition at least)
 
B00ger said:
Yeah, kinda have to go with this. To me it fits in the property rights. They have, in my opinion, the right to search/ban certain things on their property. Good for the goose is good for the gander and all. My main issue is the sudden change of policy. I.e. if they post that everyone >entering< will be searched, then I know where the goalpost is and can react accordingly. But then they move that goalpost to the parking deck with no notice then there isn’t time to amend one’s situation.

I could see someone like myself rushing to the hospital to see someone, approaching the door and seeing the scanners and think “I need to head back to the car and disarm”. No harm no foul. But suddenly I jump out of the car and the cops are on me? Not so much. Give people time/warning enough to do the right thing.(by their definition at least)
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Fully agree , any searches should have been at the doors.
 
Not sure which is more frightening: forum members who 1) eagerly relinquish their god given rights as outlined in amendments 2 and 4, or 2) believe that pursuing #1 will provide any measure of safety whatsoever. so I suppose it’s ok for military to quarter in our homes under some circumstances, or to apply cruel and unusual punishments when it’s needed….so as to ensure our safety of course.

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -Benjamin Franklin
 
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