Handmade VC shotgun with papers

Discussion in 'Military Surplus - Curios & Relics' started by jerrod, Mar 28, 2018.

  1. jerrod

    jerrod New Member

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    Hello, I am new to this forum, but have been gifted a Viet Cong shotgun by my father who just passed. I have the papers Uncle Sam gave him as he brought it over on his last tour. I was just wondering if anyone has any idea on values for such items, and/or is interested in purchasing. I will follow with some pics. Thanks for reading!
     
  2. jerrod

    jerrod New Member

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  3. jerrod

    jerrod New Member

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  4. Pink_Vapor

    Pink_Vapor Well-Known Member Supporting Member

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    Cool.
    If it was my dad's WITH history, I couldn't let it go unless we were in dire straights.
     
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  5. jerrod

    jerrod New Member

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    Yeah, I’m back and forth. Not in dire straights, just want an idea and see if anyone is interested. If you knew the estate battle we are in right now, that might shed some light on it. But thanks for the comment. I’ll keep thinking on it
     
  6. rdinatal

    rdinatal Better late then never...

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    If you are in an "estate battle" and you are in possession then the value is $0, nada, zip... Then revisit this when the estate is settled.
     
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2018
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  7. rintintindog68

    rintintindog68 Active Member

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    Interested. Really hard to come up with a value, clearly war bring backs with provenance fetch higher prices of course. This is a bit of an oddball among Vietnam Conflict bring-backs vs. the typical AK's and SKS rifles that fall in a clear range.

    Very cool piece.
     
  8. abby

    abby New Member

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    The VC gun was gifted prior to us prior to date of death, so it is not a part of the estate. Thanks for comment.
     
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  9. abby

    abby New Member

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    Now back to the item at hand, dad always called it a “Vietnamese shotgun” I’m not sure if he removed it from a soldier or whether it was just available to bring back. It won’t take a 16gauge shell, nor a .410. 16 too big, .410 too small. Thinking a 28guage might do the trick. Anyway, any information you would like to share would be grateful. Thanks for reading.
     
  10. rintintindog68

    rintintindog68 Active Member

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    Possibly .20 or a .28 ga
     
  11. abby

    abby New Member

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    Sorry, meant to say .20 was too big too
     
  12. Mirac

    Mirac Epic Replies ---> Charter Member Supporting Member

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    Got calipers to give us some measurements of the bbl. ?
     
  13. abby

    abby New Member

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    I can run some down. I’m a greenie, so what exactly is bbl. bore?
     
  14. Gator

    Gator Parts guy Charter Member Supporting Member

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  15. ronn47

    ronn47 Where's the Scotch? Charter Member Benefactor Life Member

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    ID of the barrel at the rear, also see if you can measure the length of the chamber.
    Google shotgun chamber gauges to see drawings of chambers for dimensions.
     
  16. shadowsbane

    shadowsbane Member

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    It is likely a 24 or a 32 They are pretty much impossible gauges around here but quite popular in Asia and south america.
     
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  17. nchunt101

    nchunt101 Member Charter Member Supporting Member

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    Is it a muzzle loader? Keep in mind I am far from an expert but what makes you think it is actually a shotgun? I would think that a muzzleloader/musket type gun would be easier to produce and wouldn't require uncommon ammo.
     
  18. abby

    abby New Member

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    C4B4CDEF-A036-4CE9-BB65-81AB90CACCE3.jpeg
     
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  19. abby

    abby New Member

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    We have always been told and just assumed it was a shotgun. When I get back to North cackalacky, I’ll get the measurements. Could be a muzzleloader? I’ll have to do a little more investigation to see. All of these are great ideas and thoughts. Thank you for your help.
     
  20. shadowsbane

    shadowsbane Member

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    Muzzle loaders would be almost worthless in the hot, humid and rainy Vietnam climate. Could also be a heavily modified sporting gun that was repurposed after the French pulled out.
     
  21. nchunt101

    nchunt101 Member Charter Member Supporting Member

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    I agree that a muzzleloader would have issues but the gun looks like something used by the Montagnard tribe. IIRC the few girearms they had before we supplied them in Vietnam were black powder. Keep in mind I am basing this off of something I read a few years back so I could be wrong. I have also had a Vietnam Vet tell me that protecting shotgun shells from the damp was a royal PITA.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2018
  22. shadowsbane

    shadowsbane Member

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    Far as value. Probably not much. Unless it has unit markings or could be linked to a particular high-profile battle, or figure.

    Maybe a museum of vfw might have an interest.
     
  23. cubrock

    cubrock Swell guy Benefactor Charter Life Member

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    Looks like a break action made at least in part from Japanese Arisaka parts, or parts inspired by the Arisaka.

    The description on the bringback paper could apply to a host of VC-made shotguns. Many of those they made were crude slam-fired single shots. Since the paper doesn’t tie to the gun specifically, like by serial number, it doesn’t add a whole lot of value.

    What is the green sticker on it? Looks like an auction house tag.
     
  24. LizardKing

    LizardKing Alright Alright Alright Charter Member Supporting Member

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    Sticker looks like a moving company tag
     
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  25. cubrock

    cubrock Swell guy Benefactor Charter Life Member

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    Ah, that could be. There are auction houses that use similar tags, too.
     
  26. molonlabe

    molonlabe Member

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    Looking at the hammer and "breech" could it be a modded martini Henry or other breech loader converted to a shotgun. If I remember right this happened to Martini Henry rifles after the boer and zulu wars.
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2018
  27. jerrod

    jerrod New Member

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    Sorry for the long delay. I don't visit the internet much. I'm very grateful for all of you showing interest in this gun and helping me find out what to make of it. I am having it appraised soon and will post once it's completed.
    I don't see any markings on it. And I don't think it's muzzleloading. I'll update soon. Thanks again!
     
  28. jerrod

    jerrod New Member

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    18AD8C66-10C9-48C0-8647-2F9B2950CE8E.jpeg 954F9A9B-BDFC-4E1E-B5C0-8C735C18F45F.jpeg
    The sticker is a moving tag. I am fairly certain this isn't a muzzleloader, but not 100% positive. I hope to have an answer soon.
    I also have a 1903 apringfield with the following markings:
    I know the OGEK to be a specific inspector I think and the "P" to be a proof marking. Anyone know what the R LAFK might mean?
     
  29. cubrock

    cubrock Swell guy Benefactor Charter Life Member

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    Rock Island Arsenal, inspector Frank Krack.

    OGEK would be a WWII era reinspection - Ogden Arsenal, Elmer Keith.
     
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  30. Tombstone

    Tombstone New Member

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    Like mentioned above, the value will be pretty low - I would think $150 tops IF someone accepts the connection. You must also realize it is not a widely prized or sought after weapon. It’s not a SKS, Mosin, Mauser, MAS-36, TT-33, or anything else military collectors seek out – but you never know with today’s crazy prices. The main value for 'bring backs' it the paperwork. Unfortunately, the proof of provenance between the paperwork and firearm is lacking. The DD Form 603 was supposed to be used for war trophy firearms, but a generic letter like yours was often used. The 603 had a block for serial number, model, caliber, type, etc. that (if filled out) would more directly connect the rifle to the paperwork. Even though your shotgun probably has no S/N, any additional information besides “locally made shotgun” would have been a plus – such as break-barrel, single shot, 28ga, two-piece wood stock and handguard, etc. I know most military clerks would only do the minimum required to get it approved, which hurt the value in situations will like yours.

    I vote you keep it in the family…..That will always trump poor provenance. Professionally frame the paperwork so it wont fade and hang it in your house with the shotgun and a pic of your dad in his uniform. Otherwise, find someone else in the family that will appreciate it for what it is and give it to them for future safekeeping. Trust me, someone in your family – whether now, or 30 years from now, will appreciate this piece of family history more than a stranger ever will. Be a good caretaker until you find it a good home with a relative, sibling, or offspring.

    TOM
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2019
  31. jerrod

    jerrod New Member

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    You guys have been great. Thank you so much for your attention and suggestions. Your insite is invaluable.
     
  32. tanstaafl72555

    tanstaafl72555 This member has been permanently banned Life Member

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    Not really. Just because it came down to him thru his dad does not mean it is a part of the estate.
     
  33. rdinatal

    rdinatal Better late then never...

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    I understand. It really depends upon the judge.
     
  34. tanstaafl72555

    tanstaafl72555 This member has been permanently banned Life Member

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    No. Not really. I am only a little anal about this right now because I may be obtaining my insurance license (again.... sold my biz 5 years ago) and am in the midst of all this stuff about policies, annuities, estates and whatnot.

    Anyway, if his dad gave him the weapon BEFORE passing, then it would not be a part of the estate.

    Forget that I mentioned it. I am just slaphappy with studying right now.

    However, if he says the weapon was given to him by his dad in the past, he should be able to sell it without any worries. If there is drama about the estate and family, that might complicate it all.
     
  35. rdinatal

    rdinatal Better late then never...

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    I guess I read this as 'gifted' which means after death (sorry for your loss BTW) vs. 'given' while the farther was still alive.
     
  36. jerrod

    jerrod New Member

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    Dad gave it to me prior to his passing. Thank you for expressing your condolences also. In addition to that, the estate is settled.
     
  37. jerrod

    jerrod New Member

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    I worded it as "gifted" intentionally. Uncle Sam loves to stick his fingers in wherever he can.
     
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  38. rufrdr

    rufrdr Active Member

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    As a teen in 1970, a returned Navy SEAL (I had never heard of the SEALs back then) who was associated with my scout explorer group showed me a blow-back VC 12 ga shotgun. It fired from an open bolt and the act of firing ejected the fired shell and held the bolt open to load another round. I thought the whole thing was ingenious in its simplicity.
     
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