How Long is too Long?...And What would you do?

Jfriday1961

Jfriday1961

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Greenville, NC
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In September 2020 I engaged a local gunsmith to do some work on 2 of my rifles. I asked him for a price on the work. He quoted me a price of $800. I agreed on the price. He came to my home and got the rifles, and I paid him a $400 deposit. Rifle #1 is a pre-64 Winchester Model 94. The work was to be a case-coloring of the receiver, along with polishing some rust off the barrel and re-bluing. Rifle #2 is a 70s vintage Winchester model 9422XTR. The work was an adjustment of the sights. I figured this work would take about 3-4 months for the Model 94, and a few weeks for the Model 9422XTR.

It has now been over 1 year, and I have no information about the progress of either rifle. I had contacted the gunsmith about the work back in the early part of this year. He gave me a firm date of June, 2021 for delivery of my rifles. I contacted him again in July, requesting updates and info, and only received an "OK" as a response. I contacted him again yesterday, and have no response as yet.

I've known this man for over 25 years. He may be a member of this website, I don't know. He has done work for me in the past, and is a talented gunsmith. He is a one-man operation as far as I know. I consider him a friend. But, in this instance I paid him money to do a job. I expected him to proceed with some level of vigor. But, now I'm afraid he's thinking of this as something to do whenever he gets around to it. That is not how I view it. If he is a member of this forum, and he reads this, I hope he will understand that my point of view is that I hired him and paid him to do a job, and I expect him to do it in a timely manner.

To anyone who reads this thread--Am I being unreasonable? Is there something I am not understanding? What would you do in my situation?

Thanks for reading.
 
First thing, NEVER pay someone until the job is complete!
Second, it shouldn’t take long to do what you indicated. You should at least already have the 9422 back.
Third, I’d be going over there if no response soon. May be out $400 but I’d have my guns back or a reasonable explanation why they aren’t done
 
I would go talk with him in person. Tell him by failing to deliver by the agreed upon dates, he has broken the agreement. And at this time you are no longer interested in continuing your business with him and request a full refund and your rifles back immediately.


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The problem dealing with "friends" is that we feel we can "abuse" them. Not in a mean way, but we tend to think, they'll understand or they won't mind if I push this back a little. And that usually IS OK to a certain extent. This goes both ways with expectations.
He may be swamped. Many gunsmiths are. One man operations can get over their heads quickly. He may have health issues. But, yes, it's been long enough. He needs to make it right. I'd still be nice about it.
 
I wouldn’t have given him both guns. Would have let him do the first, pay him and if the work was satisfactory give him the second. I’d go see him asap and get your rifles and or actually see work in progress. My horror story. I dropped off a complete operational AR .45 acp rifle to be sbr’ed and have a left side charger done. Almost a year later and after many calls I get told they are finally starting work, picked out a paint scheme etc, only to get called 2 weeks later to come by and pick up my unworked on rifle. Get there and parts are missing from what I gave them. The gunsmiths shop had moved twice during the time AND the company had changed hands. Plus the smith had stolen equipment and customers stuff. A real mess. The current owners reimbursed me for what was lost. After hearing the full horror story I felt lucky to get my rifle back. I eventually got brave, cut my bbl and did the work myself. Became my first real rifle build so I guess it ended well. Good luck.
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I think the problem here is the “friend” part. You trust him so expectations may not have been clearly defined. He knows there is a level of comfort and trust, so he doesn’t have to prioritize your work.

If he’s a friend, there would be no need for this thread. I’d simply go over there and ask “what’s going on in your life?… why haven’t you called me to pick up my guns? 1yr is unacceptable.” That’s the good part about being friends w guys, we can speak plainly, whereas women are always trying to read between the lines or find another meaning.

See what he has to say and go from there. If he wants to take another 2mo+, I’d go find another smith who can do it when he tells you he can, even if that’s 8mo.
 
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Never give more than 50 percent up front. If its more than a week lead time give nothing upfront. Once someone has your money their motivation diminishes.

Go get your guns and your money. That’s no friend.
 
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Had a "gunsmith" take almost a year to put replacement grip screw threaded inserts into a Ballester Molina. He probably spent more time explaining his tales of woe to me over a 9 month period than it ultimately took him to do the work.

Never again.
 
You also asked what would I do? I would ask for a plan and listen to his response. if he actually has a plan and convinces you he will follow it, carry on. if he cant/wont give you a definite finish date, take them back now.
 
I see one man operations get in trouble all the time. It happens quick. I used to consult independently and you can get overwhelmed with administrative and other time consuming things. We did research that showed a phone call interruption to an ongoing task takes 15-20min to get back to speed at that task. The "one man" shop needs an administrator to handle calls/inquires, scheduling of work and limiting access to the craftsman. Then you need an apprentice to handle the mundane, but time consuming task.
Sam Long of Pineville Gun Shop (RIP) was a friend of mine and I used to see his stuff pile up all the time.
Not necessarily making excuses for this guy, but the OP said he was a good guy and this is what happens. How, many time have you heard the same thing about another gunsmith? That's one reason I never did it professionally. It stops being fun.

Just sayin'
 
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Just a thought.
You mentioned "color case hardening" on the 94. Does he do that "in house," or shipped out? That's a specialized job. And as for blueing,, I know a small shop that tries to wait until he has several pieces to blue before he mixes chemicals, and fires up the blueing tanks.

And I know several GOOD custom gunsmiths that can take 1-3 years to complete a project. (Huntington, Clemments, Bowen, come to mind.) They are all small operations too.

Communication is the key.
 
Yes sir, communication goes a long, long way to satisfying things. He told me upfront that he would ship out the case coloring task. I wouldnt be so concerned, but for the sparse communication and the expressed delivery date of June. I have heard from him since last week, finally. We'll see how things proceed. I appreciate the feedback from all who posted here.
 
For service based businesses......expect more time that what they quote you. They normally over book business to some degree for the purpose of keeping business for the weeks and months to come. And the last year + and lot of things are behind. A gunsmith whose sole income is gunsmithing......needs a lot of business to stay in business!! Im fortunate to not have dealt with these problems. A buddy of mine was quoted 6-8 months for a bolt rifle build, that would up taking about twice that iirc.
 
I never do contract work with friends because of this reason..I do got to say tho I'm having a dp28 built and the guy told me March of next year gunsmithing is way behind... but color case hardening is a very niche market and it requires special attention and even more special chemicals...it could be that he didn't have the chemicals and had to order them and due to covid its taking a long time... if you want to get out of it without hurt feelings just simply tell him you've changed your mind with deer season approaching you. Need them back or forget about feelings and just get your guns ...I'm a guy who doesn't like burning bridges
 
Hello Everyone,

Today is June 23, 2023, and here I am providing an update on this issue.

Not wishing to burn any bridges, I continue to send email messages to the gunsmith. I was given a "It will be ready in 30-days" message. That was in November, 2022. In January I was told he got behind schedule and will complete it as soon as possible.

It will have been 3 years, come September.
 
Jfriday1961 said:
Hello Everyone,

Today is June 23, 2023, and here I am providing an update on this issue.

Not wishing to burn any bridges, I continue to send email messages to the gunsmith. I was given a "It will be ready in 30-days" message. That was in November, 2022. In January I was told he got behind schedule and will complete it as soon as possible.

It will have been 3 years, come September.
Click to expand...
You're joking, right?

Really?!?!
 
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The beauty of "friends" is you can cut through all the crap and say what's on your mind. Id go see him in person, get my guns, and let him and the whole neighborhood know how i really felt.
 
Jfriday1961 said:
Hello Everyone,

Today is June 23, 2023, and here I am providing an update on this issue.

Not wishing to burn any bridges, I continue to send email messages to the gunsmith. I was given a "It will be ready in 30-days" message. That was in November, 2022. In January I was told he got behind schedule and will complete it as soon as possible.

It will have been 3 years, come September.
Click to expand...


Go get your property. At this point I'd worry about whether my job gets done, but whether or not I'd ever see my rifles again.

Then let us know who this is so that nobody else gets burned. You have the patience of Job.
 
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Man up. Go get your guns back. If no work done, get your money too. Small claims court if needed. He's not your Pal anymore when he's humping your leg like that.
 
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Three years is a long, long time. Your guns could’ve gotten a degree in that time. Tell him you want your guns back or you’ll report them as stolen (it really sounds like theft at this point). Make sure you have his information beforehand. Also, $800 for the work you described seems obscene. I’ve never worked with a gunsmith who had me pay upfront too.
 
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UPDATE: June 24, 2023

Thank you all for the advice and opinions. The consistency of your responses really hit home. My nature is that I am not a confrontational person and I have been avoiding a face-to-face meeting with this guy, yet still hoping for a positive outcome. The responses given here helped prompt me to finally go to the man's house.

Today another friend and I went there. I knocked on the front door for about 3-5 minutes without an answer. My friend told me that he saw someone move the blinds and look outside. I went to the side door and continued knocking. There was a dog barking inside.

Finally, a woman answered the door. I told her I had come to see Edward. She said okay and closed the door. She came back in a minute and said he was coming out. A minute went by and he came outside. I told him I wanted to get my rifles back, he said okay, and turned around and went back inside. A minute later he came outside with my rifles and with four $100 bills.

I was stunned. He apologized humbly and profusely. I told him that I was never mad at him, but that I was frustrated and disappointed because so long as I had known him, (30 years) he had always enjoyed repairing and tinkering with firearms. I told him I thought this was a project that he would have enjoyed doing and that I knew he could do really quality work. (Sidenote: about 18 years ago he parkerized an M1 Garand for me and it looked brand new.. A CMP January 1944 Springfield Armory with January '44 SA barrel). He was very apologetic and was obviously contrite. He appeared downtrodden and depressed. He did at least say that he was experiencing some issues.

Anyway, I told him again I was not mad at him. I wished him the best. We talked for a few more minutes. I then turned and left.

In afterthought, I don't know why he didn't complete the work. The fact that he never even started has me baffled the most. My rifles sat all this while there in his house, for no discernable reason. The part of this story that bothers me in a bad way, really, are the lies he told me (ready in 6 months,...ready in 30 days..etc.) I cannot fathom the why of it all. But I am grateful that this is over. This person has always been a likeable character. I actually feel sad about the whole situation, and sorrowful for this man. I am glad it's over.

Thanks for reading this and for the responses. Best wishes to all.
 
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