Israel-Palestine getting at it...

[P01135809]

*Breaking news:* Israeli Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu just made the following speech in front of the Knesset:
----
To Ismail Haniya, and the leaders and operatives of Hamas:
We, the people of Israel, owe you a huge debt of gratitude. You have succeeded where we have failed. Because never before, in the history of the modern State of Israel, has the Jewish people been so united, like one person with one heart. Everyone in Israel, from Left to Right, secular and religious, in united in the knowledge that there is no accommodating an enemy that is sworn to the genocide of our people.
And now, as you continue to launch deadly missiles indiscriminately, intended to maim and murder as many civilians as possible, while you take cowardly refuge behind your own civilians - you continue to inspire us to hold strongly onto our unity. Whatever disputes we Jews may have with each other, we now know that we have one common goal: we will defeat you.
But we are offering you now one last chance. Within 24 hours, all rocket fire - and I mean all rocket fire - will cease. Completely. Forever.
I give you formal notice that our tanks are massed at the Gaza border, with artillery and air support at the ready. We have already dropped leaflets over the northern parts of the Gaza strip, warning civilians of our impending arrival, and that they should evacuate southward, forthwith. If you fail to meet our ultimatum, we are coming in, and, with God's help, this time we will not leave. Every centimeter of land that we conquer will be annexed to Israel, so that there will *never* be another attack launched at our civilians from there.
Even so, we will continue to keep the door open to allow you to surrender gracefully. The moment you announce that you are laying down arms, we will halt our advance, and there we will draw our new borders. If you continue to attack our citizens, we will continue to roll southwards, driving you out of territory that you will never again contaminate with your evil presence.
It pains me deeply that your civilians will be made homeless. But we did not choose this war; you did. And if our choice is between allowing our citizens to be targeted mercilessly by your genocidal savagery, versus turning your civilians into refugees, I regret that we must choose the latter. If only you loved your people as much as you hate ours, this war would never have happened.
To the rest of the world: Israel has tired of your ceaseless chidings that we should "show restraint". When you have your entire population under constant missile fire from an implacable enemy whose stated goal is the murder of every man, woman and child in your land, then you may come and talk to us about "restraint". Until then, we respectfully suggest that you keep your double standards to yourselves. This time, Hamas has gone too far, and we will do whatever we have to in order to protect our population.
Hamas, once again, I thank you for bringing our people together with such clarity of mind and unity of purpose. The people of Israel do not fear the long road ahead. Am Yisrael Chai.

seems fake 🥸

 

[Chuckman]

seems fake 🥸

I did some digging. It is indeed real, but it is dated. Which is ironic because it came from a speech when Hamas was getting frisky. Probably just as well to keep it in the top desk drawer, pull it out, blow the dust off, and re-issue the proclamation.

 

[OldNascar]

Does it change the equation for you if you'd offered reasonable compromises to coexist with the neighbor for over 40 years, and he kept turning those offers down while his buddies worked on a nuclear weapon in the garage and constantly crowed about how they were going to wipe you off the face of the earth?

Just curious.

ETA, for the record I have wished we would just get out of the middle of all that ancient war for a long time. I even thought that we should scale down aid to Israel progressively to push them into a peace treaty. But then I realized Iranian Muslims are behind the conflict and it was never going to end without the destruction of Israel.

Speaking of nukes, who in the whole Middle East has them? Would you be able to live next to an enemy state without possession of one yourself? I don’t believe any nation in that area should be allowed one especially Israel. Them having a stock pile forces the other side to go desperate in their quest for one and in time we will have to deal with that inevitable day, a day that will live in infamy past forever.

 

[Chuckman]

Speaking of nukes, who in the whole Middle East has them? Would you be able to live next to an enemy state without possession of one yourself? I don’t believe any nation in that area should be allowed one especially Israel. Them having a stock pile forces the other side to go desperate in their quest for one and in time we will have to deal with that inevitable day, a day that will live in infamy past forever.

Pakistan. Iran is closer than not. I've no problems with Israel having them. They have shown remarkable restraint in NOT using them over the past 60-whatever years.

Israel was literally punching in the codes during the Yom Kippur War but chose to 'stay conventional', not too shabby of clear thinking when Syrian army officials were beheading Israeli POWs with an axe.

I think them having them is a great deterrent. I think Egypt is OK not wanting to tangle with Israel anymore, but I could see Syria, with Iran backing, full-out invading.

 

[OldNascar]

Pakistan. Iran is closer than not. I've no problems with Israel having them. They have shown remarkable restraint in NOT using them over the past 60-whatever years.

Israel was literally punching in the codes during the Yom Kippur War but chose to 'stay conventional', not too shabby of clear thinking when Syrian army officials were beheading Israeli POWs with an axe.

I think them having them is a great deterrent. I think Egypt is OK not wanting to tangle with Israel anymore, but I could see Syria, with Iran backing, full-out invading.

Hope you’re right. I don’t think there will ever be another coordinated war by the Muslim nations against Israel due to their strength but if and when one of those countries in the area get a nuke then the game changes and drastically if they can come up with a working delivery system.

 

[vaskeet]

Having spent a lot of time in that region I 1000% SUPPORT ISRAEL

 

[DurhamDad]

Speaking of nukes, who in the whole Middle East has them? Would you be able to live next to an enemy state without possession of one yourself? I don’t believe any nation in that area should be allowed one especially Israel. Them having a stock pile forces the other side to go desperate in their quest for one and in time we will have to deal with that inevitable day, a day that will live in infamy past forever.

Well, Pakistan definitely has them, so I have little doubt if things were really desperate that any muslim ally could get them.

And no, if a neighbor was threatening me with nukes I'd want to have them too or some similar city-ending capability to deter them from using them.

But there is the difference. Is Israel constantly threatening to turn Iran into glass? No. They mainly seem to want to just be left alone on their patch of desert. Iran, Syria, etc. are enemies of Israel only because they themselves have declared they are, in the most extreme terms.

Your bb gun metaphor isn't even as extreme as the reality of rock throwing teens versus a nuclear power. If the Israelies were not responsible enough to have nukes, based on the attacks they've already endured I would think they would have already used them.

I think it is mighty hypocritical of anyone living in the US or any other nuclear power to say nobody else should have them. I am pretty sure we are still the only nation that has deployed them, and we did it against a non nuclear enemy that was no longer a direct threat to our homeland. And history has probably shown that it was justified given the threat we were facing and the casualties that a conventional battle would entail.

I certainly hope it never happens, and I would hope we would stay out of, or at least not escalate, any nuclear conflict that occurs.

 

[Chuckman]

Hope you’re right. I don’t think there will ever be another coordinated war by the Muslim nations against Israel due to their strength but if and when one of those countries in the area get a nuke then the game changes and drastically if they can come up with a working delivery system.

I think the 73 war scared the crap out of a lot of the neighboring states. The invading states had strategic and tactical superiority, speed, surprise, violence of action, Israel was 'this' close to going full-on Berserker, and still fought their way to a win.

The Gaza/Hamas thing is bigger than a thorn in their side, but isn't going to topple the state. I think Israel's only 'real' state extinction threat is Iran, either alone or via Syria, and I think if Iran had a nuke, even a small, tactical nuke, and had a reasonable chance to use it against Israel without having the world come down on them, they would.

 

[richardlc]

I think the 73 war scared the crap out of a lot of the neighboring states. The invading states had strategic and tactical superiority, speed, surprise, violence of action, Israel was 'this' close to going full-on Berserker, and still fought their way to a win.

The Gaza/Hamas thing is bigger than a thorn in their side, but isn't going to topple the state. I think Israel's only 'real' state extinction threat is Iran, either alone or via Syria, and I think if Iran had a nuke, even a small, tactical nuke, and had a reasonable chance to use it against Israel without having the world come down on them, they would.

Much like the US the only realistic cause for Israel's fall will be internal.

 

[john galt]

Israel needs a bogey man which is Hamas. Hamas needs a bogey man which is Israel. Gotta keep your people on point. Either side could really blunt the other IF they were prepared for casualties x 10 . BUT neither side can occupy the other. And you haven't won until your boots are on their ground. Problem starts when Hamas egged on by Syria or Iran.

 

[richardlc]

Should be an interesting listen,the Israeli ambassador to Great Britain will be taking calls on a Brit radio show.

 

[Chuckman]

Much like the US the only realistic cause for Israel's fall will be internal.

You are right....I think a big difference is that Israel being only 70-something years old still has a strong national consciousness, they 'know' who they are, and they really use the 'we're-Jews-always-the-underdog' storyline to keep the people in check. We lost our national consciousness a long time ago. Now we're basically Yugoslavia.

Israel needs a bogey man which is Hamas. Hamas needs a bogey man which is Israel. Gotta keep your people on point. Either side could really blunt the other IF they were prepared for casualties x 10 . BUT neither side can occupy the other. And you haven't won until your boots are on their ground. Problem starts when Hamas egged on by Syria or Iran.

Largely agree. Israel could occupy the settlements in a heartbeat, but the political and economic toll is too steep. So, a tension betwixt the two, doing this dance every few years.

 

[DurhamDad]

Israel needs a bogey man which is Hamas. Hamas needs a bogey man which is Israel. Gotta keep your people on point. Either side could really blunt the other IF they were prepared for casualties x 10 . BUT neither side can occupy the other. And you haven't won until your boots are on their ground. Problem starts when Hamas egged on by Syria or Iran.

Sadly you are right... Conflict is just too profitable, both politically and financially, for these things to end.

I think Trump had found an economic replacement formula that was working. Maybe some day that progress can be continued until Iran simply has to relent, at least at a level that is truly dangerous.

 

[BatteryOaksBilly]

I think the 73 war scared the crap out of a lot of the neighboring states.

Chuck, we're closing in on almost a half Century since that show of force. Think about the 15-24 year olds Here in the streets causing chaos. Now remove Mom and Dad's basement support for all their electronics and MacDick's feasts and replace that with Mom and Dad's constant..we hate Jews, from birth on. Very few ass whoopins last a half century. New Martyrs ready to do battle.

Sadly you are right... Conflict is just too profitable, both politically and financially, for these things to end.

Thus^^^^^^^^^ Endeth the lesson. Always follow the money...

 

[railsplitter]

What if your neighbor had a BB gun and stood his ground...his ground, while you encroached, would you then drop him with your 50 cal just because you can and by doing so suffer an occasional BB falling on your roof.

The following is neither pro one side or the other, so with that being said,.....

First of all, that's the dumbest comparison ever. The rockets being fired into Israel aren't BB's, especially considering there have been over 1,500 of them launched. Comments like those above are very telling,.... I guess basically you believe in a "proportional response"? against an aggressor? Yeah, EFF that.... If someone ever breaks into your house, are you going to verify what they're armed with first so you can make sure you don't arm yourself with something more powerful? I would say not, but in your case I'd have my doubts.

I bet that whole Hiroshima and Nagasaki thing really pisses you off LOL.

 

[OldNascar]

First of all, that's the dumbest comparison ever. The rockets being fired into Israel aren't BB's, especially considering there have been over 1,500 of them launched. Comments like those above are very telling,.... I guess basically you believe in a "proportional response"? against an aggressor? Yeah, EFF that.... If someone ever breaks into your house, are you going to verify what they're armed with first so you can make sure you don't arm yourself with something more powerful? I would say not, but in your case I'd have my doubts.

I bet that whole Hiroshima and Nagasaki thing really pisses you off LOL.

All right smarty pants, how many of those sophisticated Roman candles hit any thing of matter. I’ll tell you, very little and the comparison between the two sides abilities is laughable at best. Shooting rats in a barrel may be a better comparison. I’m sure in the world you exist rats would be a fair word to use for the Palestinians.

 

[DCGallim]

I don’t expect it to change any minds but I’ll leave it here.

 

[vaskeet]

All right smarty pants, how many of those sophisticated Roman candles hit any thing of matter. I’ll tell you, very little and the comparison between the two sides abilities is laughable at best. Shooting rats in a barrel may be a better comparison. I’m sure in the world you exist rats would be a fair word to use for the Palestinians.

they have not hit as much as they could due to the Iron Dome but some still get through. Israel has shown restraint for many years its time to end the problem

 

[Matt.Cross]

All right smarty pants, how many of those sophisticated Roman candles hit any thing of matter. I’ll tell you, very little and the comparison between the two sides abilities is laughable at best. Shooting rats in a barrel may be a better comparison. I’m sure in the world you exist rats would be a fair word to use for the Palestinians.

So killing Israeli civilians (human beings for the uninformed) isn't a "thing of matter", but calling Palestinians rats is definitely bad...

Joe Biden's sleep talk makes more sense than what you just posted.

 

[OldNascar]

Please don’t pretend Israel’s existence is in jeopardy. No, it’s not one bit. The killing is so one sided only the most brain washed can see any justification to the current slaughter.

 

[Disgruntledelf7]

Wait a minute, don’t cry poor pitiful me as the Israelis claim and then go about killing in mass believing all the time they are justified in doing so. This is not a fair fight in any stretch of the imagination and if studied the word genocide can be used in truth.

The Palestinian population has grown from 1 million to 5 million in the West Bank and Gaza since 1948. How does a population increase 5x during a period of genocide?

 

[Matt.Cross]

The killing is so one sided only the most brain washed can see any justification to the current slaughter.

Israel is so good at self-defense that it's practically murder? 😂

Dare I ask what you thought of the war on terrorism post 9/11?

 

[OldNascar]

The Palestinian population has grown from 1 million to 5 million in the West Bank and Gaza since 1948. How does a population increase 5x during a period of genocide?

Might ask the Armenian’s, the American Blacks, or any of the other impoverished poor souls that inhabit this earth.

 

[OldNascar]

Israel is so good at self-defense that it's practically murder? 😂

Dare I ask what you thought of the war on terrorism post 9/11?

9/11?....the war that will never end because we’re too stupid to mind our on business and keep our affairs to ourselves. Anybody that deals with that part of the world is guaranteed to come out on the loosing end. Do you think for one moment that all our efforts since 9/11 have us anymore secure from a similar attack?

 

[Disgruntledelf7]

Might ask the Armenian’s, the American Blacks, or any of the other impoverished poor souls that inhabit this earth.

You specified genocide, not oppression/persecution. The Armenian population did not increase during the period of the Armenian Genocide.

Words have actual meanings. I know this may confuse you based on your posts thus far. I would suggest Dictionary.com

 

[Matt.Cross]

9/11?....the war that will never end because we’re too stupid to mind our on business and keep our affairs to ourselves. Anybody that deals with that part of the world is guaranteed to come out on the loosing end. Do you think for one moment that all our efforts since 9/11 have us anymore secure from a similar attack?

There is no virtue in being harmless. None. And to answer your last question, yes. We've taken considerable steps to be better protected and better prepared.

 

[OldNascar]

You specified genocide, not oppression/persecution. The Armenian population did not increase during the period of the Armenian Genocide.

Words have actual meanings. I know this may confuse you based on your posts thus far. I would suggest Dictionary.com

Play your intellect card all you want but the bottom line is our nation is past stupid for ever giving that whole region one bit of interest or concern. Let them kill one another forever, it’s their one and only purpose in life.

 

[RetiredUSNChief]

*Breaking news:* Israeli Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu just made the following speech in front of the Knesset:
----
To Ismail Haniya, and the leaders and operatives of Hamas:
We, the people of Israel, owe you a huge debt of gratitude. You have succeeded where we have failed. Because never before, in the history of the modern State of Israel, has the Jewish people been so united, like one person with one heart. Everyone in Israel, from Left to Right, secular and religious, in united in the knowledge that there is no accommodating an enemy that is sworn to the genocide of our people.
And now, as you continue to launch deadly missiles indiscriminately, intended to maim and murder as many civilians as possible, while you take cowardly refuge behind your own civilians - you continue to inspire us to hold strongly onto our unity. Whatever disputes we Jews may have with each other, we now know that we have one common goal: we will defeat you.
But we are offering you now one last chance. Within 24 hours, all rocket fire - and I mean all rocket fire - will cease. Completely. Forever.
I give you formal notice that our tanks are massed at the Gaza border, with artillery and air support at the ready. We have already dropped leaflets over the northern parts of the Gaza strip, warning civilians of our impending arrival, and that they should evacuate southward, forthwith. If you fail to meet our ultimatum, we are coming in, and, with God's help, this time we will not leave. Every centimeter of land that we conquer will be annexed to Israel, so that there will *never* be another attack launched at our civilians from there.
Even so, we will continue to keep the door open to allow you to surrender gracefully. The moment you announce that you are laying down arms, we will halt our advance, and there we will draw our new borders. If you continue to attack our citizens, we will continue to roll southwards, driving you out of territory that you will never again contaminate with your evil presence.
It pains me deeply that your civilians will be made homeless. But we did not choose this war; you did. And if our choice is between allowing our citizens to be targeted mercilessly by your genocidal savagery, versus turning your civilians into refugees, I regret that we must choose the latter. If only you loved your people as much as you hate ours, this war would never have happened.
To the rest of the world: Israel has tired of your ceaseless chidings that we should "show restraint". When you have your entire population under constant missile fire from an implacable enemy whose stated goal is the murder of every man, woman and child in your land, then you may come and talk to us about "restraint". Until then, we respectfully suggest that you keep your double standards to yourselves. This time, Hamas has gone too far, and we will do whatever we have to in order to protect our population.
Hamas, once again, I thank you for bringing our people together with such clarity of mind and unity of purpose. The people of Israel do not fear the long road ahead. Am Yisrael Chai.

Honestly, this "speech" has the smell of bullsh*t. It reads exactly like internet hype someone would post.

Who has a link to this, because I can't find one.

 

[vaskeet]

9/11?....the war that will never end because we’re too stupid to mind our on business and keep our affairs to ourselves. Anybody that deals with that part of the world is guaranteed to come out on the loosing end. Do you think for one moment that all our efforts since 9/11 have us anymore secure from a similar attack?

911 the war that will never end because the politicians dont have the guts to allow the US military to destroy that region. We are to kind hearted to win against people who will hide in the civilian population. When the Americans were killed in Felujiah and they were celebrating their deaths a AC-130 SHOULD HAVE MADE HAMBURGER of that celebration. in Benghazi we should have destroyed the neighborhoods around the attack. I would rather see 100 Arab lives lost rather than 1 American

 

[fieldgrade]

Wait. You guys are arguing with OldNascar?

I have a ball pean hammer youse can use to hit yourself in the head with. It won’t hurt as much.

 

[Disgruntledelf7]

Play your intellect card all you want but the bottom line is our nation is past stupid for ever giving that whole region one bit of interest or concern. Let them kill one another forever, it’s their one and only purpose in life.

Play the intellect card? You said in no uncertain terms it was a genocide and then demonstrated a complete lack of understanding of what genocide means. If by intellect card you mean that I don’t use words that I don’t understand their meaning...well I guess I’m a regular Einstein.

And you are half right. In the words of Golda Meir "If the Arabs put down their guns there would be no more fighting. If the Israelis put down theirs there would be no more Israel."

Also probably an interesting note, more Palestinians have been killed by Egypt, Jordan, Lebonan and Syria than Israel. And if you are concerned about Palestinian rights, the surrounding Arab countries actually have laws denying Palestinians full rights, and even barring them from occupations. Israeli law actually guarantees Arab Israelis full rights and representation.

 

[OldNascar]

Wait. You guys are arguing with OldNascar?

I have a ball pean hammer youse can use to hit yourself in the head with. It won’t hurt as much.

Schhhhh.....don’t spill the beans, those in the know are just coming to surface.

 

[Chuckman]

Honestly, this "speech" has the smell of bullsh*t. It reads exactly like internet hype someone would post.

Who has a link to this, because I can't find one.

I think I posted it earlier, it's real, but it's dated. 2014, during the last big Hamas incursion.

 

[Matt.Cross]

You guys are arguing with OldNascar?

Not at all, he's clearly being enlightened.... Just look at his responses.

 

[wheelgun_man]

From what I can discern, and as yet I can find no other evidence contrary, the "speech" is a hoax, penned in 2014 by someone named "Shaul B."

From Shaul B. himself: https://sgb-free-thought.blogspot.com/2014/07/i-go-viral.html
"...a few days ago, in a moment of frustration at Israel's lame leadership, I penned the speech I wish we could hear from our Prime Minister ending it with the line, "... and then I awoke, and it was all a dream", and shared it on Facebook."

Other information: https://www.sajr.co.za/netanyahus-speech-to-hamas-a-hoax/

Hell of a "speech" nonetheless.

 

[Clark]

This is not a fair fight in any stretch of the imagination and if studied the word genocide can be used in truth.

To paraphrase - If you find yourself in a 'fair' fight your tactics suck.

 

[OldNascar]

Play the intellect card? You said in no uncertain terms it was a genocide and then demonstrated a complete lack of understanding of what genocide means. If by intellect card you mean that I don’t use words that I don’t understand their meaning...well I guess I’m a regular Einstein.

And you are half right. In the words of Golda Meir "If the Arabs put down their guns there would be no more fighting. If the Israelis put down theirs there would be no more Israel."

Also probably an interesting note, more Palestinians have been killed by Egypt, Jordan, Lebonan and Syria than Israel. And if you are concerned about Palestinian rights, the surrounding Arab countries actually have laws denying Palestinians full rights, and even barring them from occupations. Israeli law actually guarantees Arab Israelis full rights and representation.

Quoting Meir states nothing that a Palestinian leader can’t reverse against Israel. Now you write about rights yet this last uprising was caused by the current removal of citizens from their houses, houses that have been passed down for ages....where are those rights again? No doubt the Palestinians are high grade stooges that can be played at anytime but even they have sense enough to make a stand against glaring injustices, although totally frugal. Why any Palestinian chooses to stay in Israel is beyond me.

 

[OldNascar]

To paraphrase - If you find yourself in a 'fair' fight your tactics suck.

Lol, if you find yourself in a fight, your strategics suck.

 

[OldNascar]

I think I posted it earlier, it's real, but it's dated. 2014, during the last big Hamas incursion.

Not to worry, the speech will be good for years to come.

 

[railsplitter]

Wait. You guys are arguing with OldNascar?

Not me, I'm just playing "crazy stuff OldNascar says" Bingo!

I'm almost there - all I need to have Bingo! at this point is (1) him to wish death upon someone who disagrees with him, and (2) him to claim that we're twisting his words around. 😎