long trust name, short engraving

DrScaryGuy

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I'm getting that Form 1 itch again
My trust is currently established as "SURNAME REVOCABLE NFA TRUST AGREEMENT" (surname isn't my real name).
I shot an email to the lawyer who made it for me asking about getting a second trust with a shorter name just for future form 1 items
his simple response: "Just use SURNAME NFA TRUST".

I think I've only done 2 form 1 before, and both had trouble fitting the full name in when doing the engraving. one did it in a way that i'm not all that happy about and I may re-engrave and lazer out the original engraving.

so from now on, imma just get myself an etching pen and do it myself with the short name. form 1 items won't be collectible or appreciate anyway - not unless we're long past the point where EVERYTHING grandfathered has gone up in value...
 
Are you asking a question?

Because your lawyer doesn’t understand the NFA laws.
 
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It’s possible in some cases to draft an amendment that basically creates an AKA name for a trust. I couldn’t do that with mine. I was able to get the name of the first one clarified after a Disapproved form…but couldn’t actually change the name.

You could take your existing thread and do a Find & Replace and change the name to whatever you wanted…and use that trust going forward.
 
And what I meant by he doesn’t know NFA regulations…

27 CFR § 479.102 - How must firearms be identified?​


(2) By engraving, casting, stamping (impressing), or otherwise conspicuously placing or causing to be engraved, cast, stamped (impressed), or placed on the frame, receiver, or barrel thereof certain additional information. This information must be placed in a manner not susceptible of being readily obliterated, altered or removed. For firearms manufactured, imported, or made on and after January 30, 2002, the engraving, casting, or stamping (impressing) of this information must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch. The additional information includes:

(i) The model, if such designation has been made;

(ii) The caliber or gauge;

(iii) Your name (or recognized abbreviation) and also, when applicable, the name of the foreign manufacturer or maker;

(iv) In the case of a domestically made firearm, the city and State (or recognized abbreviation thereof) where you as the manufacturer maintain your place of business, or where you, as the maker, made the firearm; and

(v) In the case of an imported firearm, the name of the country in which it was manufactured and the city and State (or recognized abbreviation thereof) where you as the importer maintain your place of business. For additional requirements relating to imported firearms, see Customs regulations at 19 CFR part 134.

I would argue that omitting two words is not what’s meant by “or recognized abbreviation” as far as the maker’s name is concerned.
 
BigWaylon said:
And what I meant by he doesn’t know NFA regulations…

27 CFR § 479.102 - How must firearms be identified?​


(2) By engraving, casting, stamping (impressing), or otherwise conspicuously placing or causing to be engraved, cast, stamped (impressed), or placed on the frame, receiver, or barrel thereof certain additional information. This information must be placed in a manner not susceptible of being readily obliterated, altered or removed. For firearms manufactured, imported, or made on and after January 30, 2002, the engraving, casting, or stamping (impressing) of this information must be to a minimum depth of .003 inch. The additional information includes:

(i) The model, if such designation has been made;

(ii) The caliber or gauge;

(iii) Your name (or recognized abbreviation) and also, when applicable, the name of the foreign manufacturer or maker;

(iv) In the case of a domestically made firearm, the city and State (or recognized abbreviation thereof) where you as the manufacturer maintain your place of business, or where you, as the maker, made the firearm; and

(v) In the case of an imported firearm, the name of the country in which it was manufactured and the city and State (or recognized abbreviation thereof) where you as the importer maintain your place of business. For additional requirements relating to imported firearms, see Customs regulations at 19 CFR part 134.

I would argue that omitting two words is not what’s meant by “or recognized abbreviation” as far as the maker’s name is concerned.
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At one time, didn't they used to let you use abbreviations like RLT for Revocable Living Trust, but then changed it?


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mig1nc said:
At one time, didn't they used to let you use abbreviations like RLT for Revocable Living Trust, but then changed it?


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Possibly. Although, there’s nothing stopping you from engraving it how you want…as you know, the engraving itself isn’t anything that gets approved.
 
It seems a myth that the trust name include any specific words. I think my second trust is named simply “JAB2” and its property includes a single suppressor. Need to do JAB4 for a form 1 sbr. Now that I wrote that, it might have been JAB2 RLT, it’s been a while.
 
My SBR has my 'last name Family Trust' on it, just like my trust says on it. Smith Family Trust
 
For me personally, while I love a good meme lower, I think the silly trust names aren’t anything I’m interested in. My current one is Lastname Trust. No need to have “family” or “NFA” or “Firearm” or “Gun” in the name. Although I do have a non-family member on mine, it’s nice for most of us that the trust name matches my DL.
 
I can just about guarantee that nobody in my family has trusts registered with the ATF, so identifying me shouldn't be a problem.
My name is fairly unique, and if you know the name (not likely at all), you know somebody who is related to me.
 
Abbreviation of surname and trust for me. Easy and unique.
 
While the letter of the law says you have to put the complete trust name in practice no one cares.

When I made trust form 1 cans way back when I did one like that then made a new trust and after it was drafted I changed the name of the trust to ("My initials" Trust). 8 letters. That is legal.

After 41P theyre all individual
 
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wired said:
While the letter of the law says you have to put the complete trust name in practice no one cares.

When I made trust form 1 cans way back when I did one like that then made a new trust and after it was drafted I changed the name of the trust to ("My initials" Trust). 8 letters. That is legal.
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This seemed to be my lawyer's interpretation trust too.
I replied that i was surprised that was all it took, and he said he could make it more difficult if i was interested.

I'm wondering if I could send a letter and just toss the response in with my trust paperwork if they say an abbreviated name would not preclude identification and would be acceptable.
 
The concerns around engraving are exactly why I made mine only 15 characters. I figured keep it simple and that’s one less thing to worry about.
 
DrScaryGuy said:
This seemed to be my lawyer's interpretation trust too.
I replied that i was surprised that was all it took, and he said he could make it more difficult if i was interested.

I'm wondering if I could send a letter and just toss the response in with my trust paperwork if they say an abbreviated name would not preclude identification and would be acceptable.
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Whatever you engrave has to be what is on the form. What is on the form has to be what is on the trust. Make the trust name short. Easy as that. It doesnt have the be "Your full name revocable living trust"
 
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wired said:
Whatever you engrave has to be what is on the form. What is on the form has to be what is on the trust. Make the trust name short. Easy as that. It doesnt have the be "Your full name revocable living trust"
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Yeah I don’t see any gray area. It seems pretty clear.
 
I think many people over think their trust names, keep them short and simple.
 
Average Joe said:
I think many people over think their trust names, keep them short and simple.
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Its not really an overthinking thing. A lot of software pops out along trust name because it has no reason not too. I know with the quicken willmaker you have to export it as a word doc and then change the name.
 
wired said:
Its not really an overthinking thing. A lot of software pops out along trust name because it has no reason not too. I know with the quicken willmaker you have to export it as a word doc and then change the name.
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Ah! I did not know that, I’m not very computer literate. That is one of the reasons why I went with an attorney to prepare my trust.


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I still like the idea of the In God We trust.
 
Tim said:
Mine is simply "<Surname> Trust". NO reason for it to be named "NFA Trust" or anything more than a simple name.
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BigWaylon said:
For me personally, while I love a good meme lower, I think the silly trust names aren’t anything I’m interested in. My current one is Lastname Trust. No need to have “family” or “NFA” or “Firearm” or “Gun” in the name. Although I do have a non-family member on mine, it’s nice for most of us that the trust name matches my DL.
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This.

Like you guys, I kept mine as a simple, two-word name. Unlike you, I chose something I liked for the first word knowing that after I die the beneficiary will not have my surname. Still, two words to keep it simple, as the trust can be named anything one likes.
 
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