Man accidentally shot inside restaurant in Garner

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www.wral.com

Man accidentally shot at Carolina Ale House in Garner

Police were investigating a shooting inside a restaurant in Garner on Thursday night.
www.wral.com www.wral.com

Article is short on details but a gun “accidentally” went off and shot a guy in the hip. Dollars to donuts the guy carrying displayed the gun and screwed up reholstering.

For those that don’t want to click:


Police say a 19-year-old was accidentally shot inside the Ale House at White Oak late Thursday night.

The man was shot in the hip before 11:30 p.m. while eating at the restaurant on Conservation Road near U.S. Highway 70.

Police said a gun belonging to an acquaintance sitting beside the man at a table accidentally discharged.

The man's injuries were not life-threatening, although he was taken to WakeMed to be treated.

No charges were filed
 
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Carolina Ale Houses are posted are they not?
 
Stogies said:
Carolina Ale Houses are posted are they not?
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Really, I do not see the signage.

1631382968991.png

Later aside: if I am not mistaken, it was Nelson's right eye and right arm that had been damaged/amputated well before the Battle of Copenhagen during which the famous scene arose. So I think the sketch here should have his left (good) arm holding the telescope to his right (weaker) eye. See, for example: https://www.aao.org/senior-ophthalm...iral-horatio-nelson-failing-eyesight-napoleon
 
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Stogies said:
Carolina Ale Houses are posted are they not?
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I know that one is.
...or they were last time I stood there looking at the sign and leaving.
 
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GreatGazoo said:
Really, I do not see the signage.

View attachment 375773

Later aside: if I am not mistaken, it was Nelson's right eye and right arm that had been damaged/amputated well before the Battle of Copenhagen during which the famous scene arose. So I think the sketch here should have his left (good) arm holding the telescope to his right (weaker) eye. See, for example: https://www.aao.org/senior-ophthalm...iral-horatio-nelson-failing-eyesight-napoleon
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ah, BUT... this is a woodcut print. the wood would be backwards, so should we consider that maybe the wood is good, but the print could be wrong?
 
DrScaryGuy said:
ah, BUT... this is a woodcut print. the wood would be backwards, so should we consider that maybe the wood is good, but the print could be wrong?
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Umm, but the point is that arm and eye should be opposite, whether or not the print is reversed from the woodcut.

As per the article cited in #12, the artist might have been confused as there are extant images of Nelson's famous "green eye patch" which actually covered his undamaged (but apparently problematic) left eye. So my guess is that an artist taking their cue from those paintings or prints rather than the historical eye injury itself might have misconstrued the actual "blind" eye.

Certainly, it was Nelson's right arm that was amputated at Santa Cruz de Tenerife and hence his left arm must have been holding the telescope as in the print image.
 
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vp9c said:
i thought it was either a fine or give up your permit
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As I remember, if you are drinking while carrying it is automatic revocation of your permit. If there was a gun busters sign on the door pretty much for sure. Maybe someone here who teaches the classes can straighten us out. It has been quite a while since I took the class.
 
Not arguing. Just couldn't remember so I looked some stuff up. I underlined what I thought was the relevant stuff. Definitely not legal to consume alcohol while carrying concealed (I think it is OK to open carry and consume alcohol-ie not expressly prohibited). https://www.ncleg.net/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/HTML/ByArticle/Chapter_14/Article_54B.html

§ 14-415.21. Violations of this Article punishable as an infraction.


(a) A person who has been issued a valid permit who is found to be carrying a concealed handgun without the permit in the person's possession or who fails to disclose to any law enforcement officer that the person holds a valid permit and is carrying a concealed handgun, as required by G.S. 14-415.11, shall be guilty of an infraction and shall be punished in accordance with G.S. 14-3.1. Any person who has been issued a valid permit who is found to be carrying a concealed handgun in violation of G.S. 14-415.11(c)(8) shall be guilty of an infraction and may be required to pay a fine of up to five hundred dollars ($500.00). In lieu of paying a fine the person may surrender the permit.


(a1) A person who has been issued a valid permit who is found to be carrying a concealed handgun in violation of subsection (c2) of G.S. 14-415.11 shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.


(b) A person who violates the provisions of this Article other than as set forth in subsection (a) or (a1) of this section is guilty of a Class 2 misdemeanor. (1995, c. 398, s. 1; 2011-268, s. 21(a); 2013-369, s. 16; 2015-195, s. 9.)

§ 14-415.11. Permit to carry concealed handgun; scope of permit.


(a) Any person who has a concealed handgun permit may carry a concealed handgun unless otherwise specifically prohibited by law. The person shall carry the permit together with valid identification whenever the person is carrying a concealed handgun, shall disclose to any law enforcement officer that the person holds a valid permit and is carrying a concealed handgun when approached or addressed by the officer, and shall display both the permit and the proper identification upon the request of a law enforcement officer. In addition to these requirements, a military permittee whose permit has expired during deployment may carry a concealed handgun during the 90 days following the end of deployment and before the permit is renewed provided the permittee also displays proof of deployment to any law enforcement officer.


(b) The sheriff shall issue a permit to carry a concealed handgun to a person who qualifies for a permit under G.S. 14-415.12. The permit shall be valid throughout the State for a period of five years from the date of issuance.


(c) Except as provided in G.S. 14-415.27, a permit does not authorize a person to carry a concealed handgun in any of the following:


(1) Areas prohibited by G.S. 14-269.2, 14-269.3, and 14-277.2.


(2) Areas prohibited by G.S. 14-269.4, except as allowed under G.S. 14-269.4(6).


(3) In an area prohibited by rule adopted under G.S. 120-32.1.


(4) In any area prohibited by 18 U.S.C. § 922 or any other federal law.


(5) In a law enforcement or correctional facility.


(6) In a building housing only State or federal offices.


(7) In an office of the State or federal government that is not located in a building exclusively occupied by the State or federal government.


(8) On any private premises where notice that carrying a concealed handgun is prohibited by the posting of a conspicuous notice or statement by the person in legal possession or control of the premises.
 
vp9c said:
Not arguing. Just couldn't remember so I looked some stuff up. I underlined what I thought was the relevant stuff. Definitely not legal to consume alcohol while carrying concealed (I think it is OK to open carry and consume alcohol-ie not expressly prohibited). https://www.ncleg.net/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/HTML/ByArticle/Chapter_14/Article_54B.html

§ 14-415.21. Violations of this Article punishable as an infraction.


(a) A person who has been issued a valid permit who is found to be carrying a concealed handgun without the permit in the person's possession or who fails to disclose to any law enforcement officer that the person holds a valid permit and is carrying a concealed handgun, as required by G.S. 14-415.11, shall be guilty of an infraction and shall be punished in accordance with G.S. 14-3.1. Any person who has been issued a valid permit who is found to be carrying a concealed handgun in violation of G.S. 14-415.11(c)(8) shall be guilty of an infraction and may be required to pay a fine of up to five hundred dollars ($500.00). In lieu of paying a fine the person may surrender the permit.


(a1) A person who has been issued a valid permit who is found to be carrying a concealed handgun in violation of subsection (c2) of G.S. 14-415.11 shall be guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.


(b) A person who violates the provisions of this Article other than as set forth in subsection (a) or (a1) of this section is guilty of a Class 2 misdemeanor. (1995, c. 398, s. 1; 2011-268, s. 21(a); 2013-369, s. 16; 2015-195, s. 9.)

§ 14-415.11. Permit to carry concealed handgun; scope of permit.


(a) Any person who has a concealed handgun permit may carry a concealed handgun unless otherwise specifically prohibited by law. The person shall carry the permit together with valid identification whenever the person is carrying a concealed handgun, shall disclose to any law enforcement officer that the person holds a valid permit and is carrying a concealed handgun when approached or addressed by the officer, and shall display both the permit and the proper identification upon the request of a law enforcement officer. In addition to these requirements, a military permittee whose permit has expired during deployment may carry a concealed handgun during the 90 days following the end of deployment and before the permit is renewed provided the permittee also displays proof of deployment to any law enforcement officer.


(b) The sheriff shall issue a permit to carry a concealed handgun to a person who qualifies for a permit under G.S. 14-415.12. The permit shall be valid throughout the State for a period of five years from the date of issuance.


(c) Except as provided in G.S. 14-415.27, a permit does not authorize a person to carry a concealed handgun in any of the following:


(1) Areas prohibited by G.S. 14-269.2, 14-269.3, and 14-277.2.


(2) Areas prohibited by G.S. 14-269.4, except as allowed under G.S. 14-269.4(6).


(3) In an area prohibited by rule adopted under G.S. 120-32.1.


(4) In any area prohibited by 18 U.S.C. § 922 or any other federal law.


(5) In a law enforcement or correctional facility.


(6) In a building housing only State or federal offices.


(7) In an office of the State or federal government that is not located in a building exclusively occupied by the State or federal government.


(8) On any private premises where notice that carrying a concealed handgun is prohibited by the posting of a conspicuous notice or statement by the person in legal possession or control of the premises.
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I believe carrying where posted was downgraded to from a misdemeanor to an infraction a few years ago. Not encouraging anybody to do so but the punishment could be worse.
 
vp9c said:
Not arguing. Just couldn't remember so I looked some stuff up. I underlined what I thought was the relevant stuff. Definitely not legal to consume alcohol while carrying concealed (I think it is OK to open carry and consume alcohol-ie not expressly prohibited). https://www.ncleg.net/EnactedLegislation/Statutes/HTML/ByArticle/Chapter_14/Article_54B.html
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This is how I read it too. Not logical to be able to drink while open carrying and not concealed, but I think maybe that was because the law already permitted open carry before the CC law was passed.

vp9c said:
(a) A person who has been issued a valid permit who is found to be carrying a concealed handgun without the permit in the person's possession or who fails to disclose to any law enforcement officer that the person holds a valid permit and is carrying a concealed handgun, as required by G.S. 14-415.11, shall be guilty of an infraction and shall be punished in accordance with G.S. 14-3.1. Any person who has been issued a valid permit who is found to be carrying a concealed handgun in violation of G.S. 14-415.11(c)(8) shall be guilty of an infraction and may be required to pay a fine of up to five hundred dollars ($500.00). In lieu of paying a fine the person may surrender the permit.
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So, it looks like GS 14-414 (c)(8) is referring to cc in a posted premises, but doesn't specifically refer to drinking while carrying. At least, that's how I read it. It looks like drinking while carrying would be covered under (4), below, but I noticed it says the sheriff may, not shall revoke the permit, so apparently it is not automatic as I thought.
1631470044019.png

Full disclosure, I am not a lawyer, I don't play one on TV and I didn't stay in a Holiday Inn Express last night. I hadn't studied the way this law is written for several years, so thank you for prompting me to do so.
 
premise said:
Never seen a pistol slam fire, have you?
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That is normally a malfunction of the firearm and is not considered accidental. Also if a pistol is designed to slam fire and it does it still is not accidental.
 
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ECNC said:
That is normally a malfunction of the firearm and is not considered accidental. Also if a pistol is designed to slam fire and it does it still is not accidental.
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So a firearm going off isn't accidental until it is, got it.

I'm also not aware of many pistols that are meant to have their firing pins stuck in place when racking the slide.
 
premise said:
So a firearm going off isn't accidental until it is, got it.

I'm also not aware of many pistols that are meant to have their firing pins stuck in place when racking the slide.
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Firing pin being stuck is a malfunction. Not an accident. I put a link below that explains the term "Slam Fire". You did use the term correctly, but the definition goes beyond what you described.

en.wikipedia.org

Slamfire - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
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ECNC said:
Firing pin being stuck is a malfunction. Not an accident. I put a link below that explains the term "Slam Fire". You did use the term correctly, but the definition goes beyond what you described.

en.wikipedia.org

Slamfire - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
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I know exactly what a slamfire (especially in reference to a pistol malfunction) is, but I appreciate you thinking I used the term correctly.

It's almost like a malfunction could cause an accidental discharge, which doesn't exist by your own admission.
 
I had several POF rifles over the years and when the bolt closed it would detent the primer of the cartridge. I contacted POF and was informed that is was normal. Normal or not, I no longer own POF rifles. I believe Slam Fires are real, even though I have not witnessed one, and I don't care what they are called....... either way it is an unintended and unwanted boom.
 
Elenaidan said:
I had several POF rifles over the years and when the bolt closed it would detent the primer of the cartridge. I contacted POF and was informed that is was normal. Normal or not, I no longer own POF rifles. I believe Slam Fires are real, even though I have not witnessed one, and I don't care what they are called....... either way it is an unintended and unwanted boom.
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I have POF, LaRue, Wilson Combat, Barnes and Aero rifles that do this….

My BCM that stays beside my bed has probably had the top round loaded and ejected 30 times over the last couple years and I’ve never had it go off.

Not saying it can’t happen, but it’s unlikely and this is why safe direction pointing when loading is good.
 
CarolinaColtCollector said:
I have POF, LaRue, Wilson Combat, Barnes and Aero rifles that do this….

My BCM that stays beside my bed has probably had the top round loaded and ejected 30 times over the last couple years and I’ve never had it go off.

Not saying it can’t happen, but it’s unlikely and this is why safe direction pointing when loading is good.
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I think what you say is probably correct and I never had a problem. That being said, it still left me with an uneasy feeling.
 
Elenaidan said:
I think what you say is probably correct and I never had a problem. That being said, it still left me with an uneasy feeling.
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it's surprising the first time you see it, but it's far from the only with a floating firing pin that will put a little ding in the primer.
Use harder primers, not soft ones. It's a long known thing that has rarely been a problem even for people not paying a lot of attention. don't get in over your head, read the instructions.
 
Elenaidan said:
I think what you say is probably correct and I never had a problem. That being said, it still left me with an uneasy feeling.
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I’ve seen primer dings on every AR I’ve handled. Not have I seen a slam fire.
That’s why one reloads with CCI 41 primers, they‘re designed with a thicker cup.
 
I get a kick out of the word play when people start arguing about accidental/ neglegent discharges. I lump them all together and use unintended discharge. That takes care of discharges caused by malfunctions, neglegence, or the pranks of wood trolls.

I had a slam fire once with a Mini 14. It was as exciting to me as it was to the folks at the benches on either side of me at the range. It got their attention real fast. It turned out it had nothing to do with the firing pin but rather was caused by a high primer in one of my reloads. The high primer was caused by an improperly adjusted Dillon primer pocket swager that left the primer picked distorted. Lesson learned. Apparently Winchester M100 autoloaders were bad about slam firing if the old style firing pin broke and stuck in the bolt. I put the new firing pin in mine to keep that from happening. I have never had a slam fire that was caused by a floating firing pin. That is not to say that they could not happen.
 
While I appreciate the sentiment behind the fact most all accidental discharges are due to negligence of some sort. And the "No Accidents, Only Negligence" mantra brings focus to this point. I've never liked it, because, it seeks to lay blame. But "crap" happens. If a 1911 falls from your bloody, slippery hand and lands muzzle down, then discharges a round (Which, can happen with a fully functional, in spec '70 series gun.) Is that negligence? If a Walther PPK/S is racked and chambered, then the hammer drop safety applied every day as an officers off duty carry gun. And one day the firing pin breaks just forward of the safety ball and flies forward, discharging a round in the locker room of the local PD, is that negligence?

Just sayin'
 
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