Chuckman
Senior Member
Heresy, I say....heresy!!
https://www.military.com/daily-news...is considering,and women would train together.
https://www.military.com/daily-news...is considering,and women would train together.
The safest place in Korea was right behind a platoon of Marines.
Lord, how they could fight!"
-MGen. Frank E. Lowe, US Army; Korea, 26 January 1952.
Mass hysteria!Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together, male and female recruits training together. What could possibly go wrong.
It's about this... "the real estate in California and South Carolina could prove valuable. "
Somebody has a plan that has to do with real estate developers.
Have you been to either place? PI is a lot like a bigger Bald Head Island, and MCRD San Diego is right beside the airport.
It's just another attempt to destroy our history. Like pulling down statues, not teaching real history or civics in school anymore. Let's "change" things so everything conforms to our PC way of thinking. All the history and traditions of the Marine Corps are instilled at Parris Island. I went through there twice. Two of my brothers went through there after me. My son went through there in 2012. Tens of thousands of men (and women) have earned their title of "Marine" on that hallowed island. Now, they want to erase all of that in the name of "equality" so men and women can train together? OK. Leave it like it is and throw all the recruits in there together and train them to Kill, Kill, KILL!!!!! That's what Marines do - visit strange new lands, meet new people and kill them! Who was the ARMY General that said the safest place to be in combat was behind a platoon of Marines? If the current Commandant of the Marine Corps is pushing this crap he needs to be drummed out of the Corps - literally. I would say more, but this is still in the open part of the forum.
Semper Fi to all my brothers and sisters who have earned the Title!!!!!
people live in tents and crap on the sidewalk in ca, i dont think many would complain about a house next to the airport.
Yep! I loves there when PI was a shit hole and most of Beaufort was as well! 1966!It's about this... "the real estate in California and South Carolina could prove valuable. "
Somebody has a plan that has to do with real estate developers.
There will be pre and post 2020 classifications...at least in the general public's mind. Mine too.My Corps has stood alone for many years. They were the last bastion of sanity and common sense. They spoke the truth and let the chips fall where they may. Men and women are different, both mentally and physiologically. We will allow women in our corps but not in combat arms roles and we will not lower the men’s standards so that women can meet them.
Every other branch has lowered the standards of the men so that women can meet them. And they have suffered because of it.
I don’t know where it went wrong. Which rooster sucking, homosexual that infested my corps decided this was good for the corps. And since this isn’t in a reserved section of our forum where I can truly speak my mind I am limited to the following.
I wish that they would attempt the physiologically impossible act of self insemination and when they get home, I hope their mother comes out from under the front porch and bites them on the ass.
Being a Marine used to mean something. It won’t if they do this.
PLT 203 Jan 1966. Sgt Hughes and Sgt Schaffer were our DIs and the POS SDI I can't even remember his name.Yep! I loves there when PI was a shit hole and most of Beaufort was as well! 1966!
I was starting 1st grade there then. I didn’t do Army BT until 83, retired in 13.PLT 203 Jan 1966. Sgt Hughes and Sgt Schaffer were our DIs and the POS SDI I can't even remember his name.
My Corps has stood alone for many years. They were the last bastion of sanity and common sense. They spoke the truth and let the chips fall where they may. Men and women are different, both mentally and physiologically. We will allow women in our corps but not in combat arms roles and we will not lower the men’s standards so that women can meet them.
Every other branch has lowered the standards of the men so that women can meet them. And they have suffered because of it.
I don’t know where it went wrong. Which rooster sucking, homosexual that infested my corps decided this was good for the corps. And since this isn’t in a reserved section of our forum where I can truly speak my mind I am limited to the following.
I wish that they would attempt the physiologically impossible act of self insemination and when they get home, I hope their mother comes out from under the front porch and bites them on the ass.
Being a Marine used to mean something. It won’t if they do this.
My ten cents says it doesn’t matter where the yellow footprints are, the intensity of the training is what makes the Marine. History is for those that make it and that can be anywhere so build a new hellhole and the former will be last years hat in short order. Now as for the female aspect, they can’t be serious but then they let the peterpuffers have a go and no one cares or dares to say otherwise. Bottom line is the military is pure BS when compared to our former selves.
They will blame President Trump.It's about this... "the real estate in California and South Carolina could prove valuable. "
Somebody has a plan that has to do with real estate developers.
What is interesting are the metrics we choose to use. "New breed" is someone who came after you; you were in the last "hard" class/school/fill-in-the-blank. My dad retired from the Marines (54-75), he maintained the "real" Marines were the ones who fought in WWII and Korea; yet, a lot of Marines in Korea never went to boot camp (reservists).
I do think that training, while mixed gender, won't be any easier. What makes Marines Marines are the six inches between the ears.
Regarding ditching PI and MCRD SD for an integrated site, I do think that is on its' face a bad idea. BRAC has already neutered some historically significant military history, and this would do the same thing.
Honestly the delimitation between the old breed and the new breed, for anyone who knows marines corps history well, is the 4th marines in Shanghai. So anyone who has never served in Shanghai (anyone since 1941) is technically “new breed”.
But the one thing that the Marines have had in spades is its history and it’s traditions. From time to time there are things that are added to the lexicon from battles. The term devil dog from Belleau Wood. The phrase Gung Ho from Carlsons raiders are examples of that.
Tradition and honoring those that came before you are cornerstones of our esprit de corps. This is a bad move even without the combined gender training. Any time that has happened the rigors or the training have been demolished. Men and women cannot train side by side. They will not raise the standards of the women and tell them to keep up. They will lower the standards of the men so that the women can keep up.
First, I am not a fan off integrated training for many reasons (some of which you pointed out).
Second, I have mixed feelings about removing ANY military traditions, especially in the Marines and Navy (aside from my own service, I have skin in the game: my father, my grandmother, and several cousins have been in the Navy and Marines...and in this purpose, I do not hold distinction between the two).
That said, tradition is peer pressure from dead people, and while it holds a significant place, that simply cannot be an argument for why an organization or institution chooses to do something. In fact, arguing tradition is part of the downfall for many organizations, institutions, and cultures. So there must be a balance between tradition and evolution.
Having served and grown up on many fine Marine bases in base housing not fit for an animal (here's looking at you, Lejeune!), I err on the side of history and tradition, and based on my personal beliefs, I think it unwise to git rid of either PI or MCRD SD much less integrate in boot.
Regarding history, your first point is historically spot on (re: 'old breed'), but there remains historical ambiguity about 'devil dogs'; there are some sources that it was created by the mighty USMC PR machine (which, truthfully, is without peer....).
But here's a question: what makes a Marine, a Marine? Asking you to get philosophical. Core values? Esprit de corps? Narrow and rigid culture?
Semper Fidelis Marine I believe were trained to endure what ever comes. the little stuff in bootcamp and the the Corps made us the SOB Gods we are. I also believe they may change training addresses but they can never change THE United States Marine CORPS.Hadn’t heard the bit about devil dogs but it honestly wouldn’t surprise me.
As to what makes a Marine a Marine that’s a complicated question. Esprit de Corps is certainly a large part of that (defined as the knowledge that you are going to get the short end of the stick and figuring out how to win anyway). Then there is the culture and the history. There were many times I kept going simply because I told my self that I was a god damn marine. That title was held by some hard men and I would not disappoint their memory.
But I believe that what truly makes a marine a marine are the horrible conditions we are kept in. The phrase hard times create hard men comes to mind. When you’re in the suck it’s all hard times. And if it isn’t hard they’ll make it worse. Old and worn out equipment, horrible living conditions, used and worn out weapons, barely edible chow.
After studying the Greeks and the Spartans it occurred to me that the marine corps training is a modern version of that. Starving us to force us to “steal” food. Giving us mediocre medical care and supplies to force us to steal those too so that we can take care of the people in our platoon.
It’s the reason there are so many stories of POW’s saying that the Marines they were there with seemed to act like the horrors they suffered were nothing new to them. Lol. Doing things like making and attaching tiny parachutes to rats they killed in their cells and hanging them from the barbed wire to make their captors think the US was dropping trained rats on them.
Not that I know of. I am in touch with a PFC that I convinced to join. He was going nowhere,needed a purpose in life etc. He says Its the best thing he ever has done. I'm as proud of him as if he was my own son. I will ask about the "stress" card" but it seems bootcamp while different from '75 when I went through still makes MARINES!Yes or No...
Is it true they have a STRESS card now?
Hadn’t heard the bit about devil dogs but it honestly wouldn’t surprise me.
As to what makes a Marine a Marine that’s a complicated question. Esprit de Corps is certainly a large part of that (defined as the knowledge that you are going to get the short end of the stick and figuring out how to win anyway). Then there is the culture and the history. There were many times I kept going simply because I told my self that I was a god damn marine. That title was held by some hard men and I would not disappoint their memory.
But I believe that what truly makes a marine a marine are the horrible conditions we are kept in. The phrase hard times create hard men comes to mind. When you’re in the suck it’s all hard times. And if it isn’t hard they’ll make it worse. Old and worn out equipment, horrible living conditions, used and worn out weapons, barely edible chow.
After studying the Greeks and the Spartans it occurred to me that the marine corps training is a modern version of that. Starving us to force us to “steal” food. Giving us mediocre medical care and supplies to force us to steal those too so that we can take care of the people in our platoon.
It’s the reason there are so many stories of POW’s saying that the Marines they were there with seemed to act like the horrors they suffered were nothing new to them. Lol. Doing things like making and attaching tiny parachutes to rats they killed in their cells and hanging them from the barbed wire to make their captors think the US was dropping trained rats on them.
Yea I went to Army base for "training" Ft. "Bliss" Texas. We had to do army PT puleese. run 1 i/2 miles? monkey bars? gotta admit bear crawls were a little hard. We had a game where there was a giant ball and you had to get it over a goal line Marines vs army... guess who won Oh well Juarezz was great as long as the $$$$ lasted.Great post, and a time I wish we had a 'love' button.
I laughed out loud at the bolded/italicized/underlined. I think the phrase we used was something like "doing so much with so little for so long we can do anything with nothing." When I was with recon and they'd send us to multi-service school, they would tell us--unofficially--"rat fu@& any gear adrift..." We had Vietnam-era equipment, always the last to get new stuff. But we made do.