Microscopes

hp468

hp468

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Ok guys bare with me here. Yes I put this in the prep section, hear me out.

I'm looking for some information or recommendations on a microscope. I know we have some pretty smart fellers here with backgrounds in which they use these (some likely for the same purpose I intend to).

So here we go. We have chickens. Chickens sometimes get worms and infections and what not. There are no vets around here that deal with chickens (that I have found) and vet visits would add up quickly if something happens with multiple birds. We're working with a couple semi-rare breeds so the goal is to keep them healthy/alive and start growing our flock. This brings me to my goal. Fecal float tests. They're used to identify worm types and also may intend to use this for identifying bacteria. Call this expanding our capabilities in animal husbandry. I'm looking for recommendation on a microscope that would accomplish said task, i'm fine with used (most likely the most cost efficient option), i'd prefer something "good" quality.

Now, lets throw another wrench in the gears. I work on electronics occasionally, it would be WONDERFUL if I could come up with a dual purpose scope that I could also use for SMC board repair. From what I have seen most stereo scopes don't go much beyond 100-150x while compound scopes provide FAR more magnification. A scope that a camera could be added to would be nice. Not sure if a stereo head on an articulating arm could even be used for float tests but why not ask?

I understand that something dual purpose may not be an option but ya don't know if ya don't know.

Going to tag some smart guys that I think may have input based on profession/schoolin.

@Scsmith42
@mj1angier
@yard mongrel
@DrScaryGuy
@Chuckman
 
I have not used a microscope in a minute, but for critters you want to see bacteria and parasites. You'll have to learn how to stain and use slides, but it's easy and their are a lot of YT videos and online resources. Now you can get a really nice one that hooks up to a laptop or tablet, which is very cool and has less eye strain.

amscope.com

40X-2500X LED Binocular Compound Microscope w/ 5MP Digital Camera, 3D Stage and Interactive Software Kit

The B120 binocular compound microscope is designed for teaching demonstrations, clinical examinations and laboratory applications. It is an ideal microscope for teachers and students, including those in medical school or with a major in biology. It has a number of advancements in functionality...
amscope.com amscope.com
 
Chuckman said:
I have not used a microscope in a minute, but for critters you want to see bacteria and parasites. You'll have to learn how to stain and use slides, but it's easy and their are a lot of YT videos and online resources. Now you can get a really nice one that hooks up to a laptop or tablet, which is very cool and has less eye strain.

amscope.com

40X-2500X LED Binocular Compound Microscope w/ 5MP Digital Camera, 3D Stage and Interactive Software Kit

The B120 binocular compound microscope is designed for teaching demonstrations, clinical examinations and laboratory applications. It is an ideal microscope for teachers and students, including those in medical school or with a major in biology. It has a number of advancements in functionality...
amscope.com amscope.com
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I know there's a learning curve and we'll likely need to build/buy a centrifuge as well, which isn't an issue. They seem to be cheap on the used market.

I've looked around on that site in the past looking at stereo scopes for electronic repair, they seem to have some nice equipment.
 
yard mongrel said:
Working, but briefly:

Hit up your local community colleges.
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Everything they have goes to .gov auctions now.

I could buy from state surplus auction, they actually have some right now on bid but i'd have to buy a pallet of them :rolleyes:

68015_IMG_8169.JPG
 
This is what we use every day for fecals and ear cytology

Amazon product ASIN B0094JTZOU
We have a nicer unit that the docs use for blood stuff but for poop and ear stuff this is fine. This is the second one we have had from them. 1st one lasted about 5 years of hard use by staff that I believe could break an anvil with a feather.

Here is the centrifuge we have. Again lasted about 4 years before we got a new one. But that is daily use by folks that my not be the gentlest with it.
Amazon product ASIN B08GH4R8D6
Gram stain kit
Amazon product ASIN B00BUV7I3K
 
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mj1angier said:
This is what we use every day for fecals and ear cytology

Amazon product ASIN B0094JTZOU
We have a nicer unit that the docs use for blood stuff but for poop and ear stuff this is fine. This is the second one we have had from them. 1st one lasted about 5 years of hard use by staff that I believe could break and anvil with a feather.

Here is the centrifuge we have. Again lasted about 4 years before we got a new one. But that is daily use by folks that my not be the gentlest with it.
Amazon product ASIN B08GH4R8D6
Gram stain kit
Amazon product ASIN B00BUV7I3K
Click to expand...

If your posting amazon links, the forum has blocked them :rolleyes:
 
Cape Fear said:
It's most likely your ad blocker. Turn it off and refresh the page. Turn it back on when you're done perusing the links.
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You are correct, Brave doesn't like amazon and apparently amazon doesn't like my VPN and wont allow me to access their site 🤣 Wonder when that changed.
 
hp468 said:
Now, lets throw another wrench in the gears. I work on electronics occasionally, it would be WONDERFUL if I could come up with a dual purpose scope that I could also use for SMC board repair. From what I have seen most stereo scopes don't go much beyond 100-150x while compound scopes provide FAR more magnification.
Click to expand...
Not sure that the two functions will overlap. The SM rework scope will usually go to about 20x (maybe 40x) magnification and is designed to be stereographic with depth perception. In other words, you can push pieces parts around with a pair of tweezers and have a vertical sense of depth doing so. I think that high magnification would be at this expense.
 
Unfortunately this is not an area where I have subject matter expertise, but I'll ask my wife when she gets back from CE to see if she has anything to add.
 
Fisher Scientific 100x

Entry level student model
 
noway2 said:
Not sure that the two functions will overlap. The SM rework scope will usually go to about 20x (maybe 40x) magnification and is designed to be stereographic with depth perception. In other words, you can push pieces parts around with a pair of tweezers and have a vertical sense of depth doing so. I think that high magnification would be at this expense.
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Yea i figured that was a long shot but i'm now finding some deals on open box items from amscope's ebay store... might just have to get both :oops:

Scsmith42 said:
Unfortunately this is not an area where I have subject matter expertise, but I'll ask my wife when she gets back from CE to see if she has anything to add.
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Thanks Scott, that was the angle I was workin when I tagged ya ;)
 
@noway2 is right, above...these two tasks will require two different instruments. I use my Optivisors (e.g., Amazon product ASIN B0006O8RX2 ) as much as possible for soldering/probing. For more delicate SMT work, I have a stereo zoom scope (Bausch & Lomb off eBay) with illuminator that I like (similar to https://www.ebay.com/itm/3545156512...6ylakBZDxJpVb2oENENIVBfaY=|tkp:Bk9SR4DlxOG4YQ ). For new, something like this Amazon product ASIN B0899HVNB1 would work well. One of the later scopes that projects onto a monitor (preferred) or PC (OK) can be nice, and have a lot less eye fatigue. I highly recommend cruising eBay, but be careful, read descriptions closely, and ask questions freely. I can't speak to the biological side, as it's been a LONG time since I did any of that.

If you want a rabbit hole, check out https://amscope.com/
 
@RFMan Looking at those scopes, and the price points, it makes me wonder what the functional differences are between them and something like a Meiji Techno that runs in the $2K range. I assume the optics setup uses different degrees of technology, but it's not an area I am an expert on by any means.
 
noway2 said:
@RFMan Looking at those scopes, and the price points, it makes me wonder what the functional differences are between them and something like a Meiji Techno that runs in the $2K range. I assume the optics setup uses different degrees of technology, but it's not an area I am an expert on by any means.
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A lot of little things, I suspect. Older stuff isn't always better - it's usually made of metal, and the adjustment may be smoother (not guaranteed, depending on how well it was maintained). Modern optics are often better, even if cheaper, due to material and assembly advances. Sometimes differences don't come out until you use one of these for long stretches. All of these have tradeoffs between magnification, brightness, contrast, depth of field, ease of adjustment...

When I took optical mineralogy (back when the earth was young), we peons had mono microscopes. I had a lab that was two sessions three hours each per week. Using one eye for that would have been impossible for me. I quickly learned a habit of switching back and forth between eyes every 15 minutes, to minimize eye fatigue. After that lab, for the next several years, my optometrist could not discern which eye was dominant :) I'm back to right-eye dominant now...mostly...

A lot like rifle scopes. There are $500 scopes now that beat $1500 scopes from back in the day.
 
try Craig's List.
here is one $25 example in Durham:

00U0U_jCx72hbQWOAz_0t20CI_300x300.jpg
 
RFMan said:
When I took optical mineralogy (back when the earth was young), we peons had mono microscopes. I had a lab that was two sessions three hours each per week. Using one eye for that would have been impossible for me. I quickly learned a habit of switching back and forth between eyes every 15 minutes, to minimize eye fatigue. After that lab, for the next several years, my optometrist could not discern which eye was dominant :) I'm back to right-eye dominant now...mostly...
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I'll 100% be buying a binocular or trinocular scope.

I have a cheap Chinese magnifying camera that I use for electronics right now, it works for what I do but figured I'd toss that out there to pick the minds of the biological peeps. Eventually i'll have a dedicated stereo scope for the test bench but its not a "need" right now. I've got my eye on one of those amscopes though.

@mj1angier amscope has that OMAX scope on their ebay store, open box with 5 year warranty for $150. Seems like a solid deal.
 
RFMan said:
When I took optical mineralogy (back when the earth was young), we peons had mono microscopes. I had a lab that was two sessions three hours each per week. Using one eye for that would have been impossible for me. I quickly learned a habit of switching back and forth between eyes every 15 minutes, to minimize eye fatigue. After that lab, for the next several years, my optometrist could not discern which eye was dominant :) I'm back to right-eye dominant now...mostly...
Click to expand...
Back when I was working on developing a prototype control system and was hand building the initial boards, I spent several hours a day for many weeks staring through a stereographic microscope. It took a little getting used to and adjusted right, but once you did you could sit down at it and simply look through it without seeing the gray / fog blurring out the image because you weren't aligned. Even while working for several hours at a time, it was amazingly comfortable, and you didn't develop eye strain or fatigue.

Compared to the old days of plated through hole, soldering devices that are only a few mm in size, under a microscope is quite an experience.

I have a stereographic microscope and a Pace SMT rework station and want to get a man cave / electronics lab set up... it's been on my to-do list for a couple of years now. Looks like we're going to do a whole house renovation before that happens, but afterwards, it is going to be an absolute part of the plan.
 
hp468 said:
Everything they have goes to .gov auctions now.

I could buy from state surplus auction, they actually have some right now on bid but i'd have to buy a pallet of them :rolleyes:
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that's if you wait for them to hit the pallet. a lot of labs just have stacks of stuff around waiting to be sent to the pallet. I really wish i had taken a bunch of old stuff way back when. There were rooms full of old waterbaths, small incubators, scopes, tools, glass, etc.

Keep in mind that if you want to see things well, the microscope requires the right kind of lighting, mirrors and lenses set just right. look up kohler illumination. It sounds hard, but you really only need to dial it in once and make sure it doesn't shift too much. After that, tape a notecard with what it should look like to the back and you'll be good forever.
 
DrScaryGuy said:
that's if you wait for them to hit the pallet. a lot of labs just have stacks of stuff around waiting to be sent to the pallet. I really wish i had taken a bunch of old stuff way back when. There were rooms full of old waterbaths, small incubators, scopes, tools, glass, etc.
Click to expand...

I have no doubt that there may be some places that will let things disappear however that's not been my experience while I was a paid student at our local tech school. It was a time consuming process to buy/take possession a piece of "unneeded and unused" property, this was before the prevalence of online surplus auctions when most old stuff just got trashed. Now with auctions most everything gets sold. The right time, the right place, and knowing the right person might get something done but my time is limited and I don't know "those" people.

I'll check into kohler illumination. I figured you'd have some good info to add.

I think we're going to grab the scope that @mj1angier recommended and give that a try, if its good enough for vet use i'm sure it will fit our needs. Thank you all for your input.

If anyone has anything to add, feel free to keep commenting as this may help others that are interested in doing the same. i'll update things as they move along.
 
@hp468 Do a search for Microscopes on this site. It looks like there are several offerings for pallets of them for about $152. Might find one or more worth A LOT more than that in there.

Bid Home

recoup.bid.assetworks.com recoup.bid.assetworks.com
 
noway2 said:
@hp468 Do a search for Microscopes on this site. It looks like there are several offerings for pallets of them for about $152. Might find one or more worth A LOT more than that in there.

Bid Home

recoup.bid.assetworks.com recoup.bid.assetworks.com
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Yea that's where I got the pic I posted above.

I'm a SSP junkie but just do not have the time or space to inspect/sell a pallet of microscopes. Not to mention the people they have in that warehouse don't exactly treat things with white gloves. They won't stay anywhere near $150 but for giggles i've added them to my watch list on the site. I'll estimate $500+ per pallet, things there seem to go for silly money lately. There's likely some money to be made there if someone had the time and people skills to sell them. I lack both.

If someone here buys one of those lots and comes across a couple bangin scopes they want to sell cheap, hit me up. lol
 
hp468 said:
Yea that's where I got the pic I posted above.

I'm a SSP junkie but just do not have the time or space to inspect/sell a pallet of microscopes. Not to mention the people they have in that warehouse don't exactly treat things with white gloves. They won't stay anywhere near $150 but for giggles i've added them to my watch list on the site. I'll estimate $500+ per pallet, things there seem to go for silly money lately. There's likely some money to be made there if someone had the time and people skills to sell them. I lack both.

If someone here buys one of those lots and comes across a couple bangin scopes they want to sell cheap, hit me up. lol
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Not sure where you're located but if you're ever near the one in Chapel Hill, you should stop there and check to see if they have any singles. They normally wait until they have a pallet full of them and then auction off the whole pallet because they don't want to keep 75 of anything that size. Before they get a pallet full they just sit them on a table in the surplus warehouse and you can pick the one you want for next to nothing. Pretty much everything in there is for sale except the shelves, tables and cash register .... and sometimes they sell those too 😂. Even if it has not yet been priced, they will put a price on it for you to get rid of it. Similar to a big yard sale.
 
I haven’t looked through a ‘scope since my clinical chemistry & hematology clinical rotations, so not much help myself. Sounds like you’re getting solid advice to me.

I dug microscopy, but got a chance to do the esoteric type stuff like immunofixation electrophoresis & HPLC, even a dab of magnetic nuclear resonance & went for it.
 
redhawk485 said:
Not sure where you're located but if you're ever near the one in Chapel Hill, you should stop there and check to see if they have any singles. They normally wait until they have a pallet full of them and then auction off the whole pallet because they don't want to keep 75 of anything that size. Before they get a pallet full they just sit them on a table in the surplus warehouse and you can pick the one you want for next to nothing. Pretty much everything in there is for sale except the shelves, tables and cash register .... and sometimes they sell those too 😂. Even if it has not yet been priced, they will put a price on it for you to get rid of it. Similar to a big yard sale.
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I go to the one in Raleigh on Chapel Hill rd fairly often, not sure if that's the one your speaking of but they don't let folks look at their "back room" inventory that isn't on bid, everything in the retail store side is tagged with prices. If there's another in Chapel Hill, i'll have to look into it.
 
I got a nice Leica binocular scope on eBay from medical equipment seller.
 
Per my wife, the state diagnostic lab in Raleigh (Rollins) does the tests for 6 bucks each. For a flock, what you’d do is take multiple samples from your birds, mix the samples together and then send it in. They will make recommendations for treatment too if they find something wrong.

Look up NCAGR.gov to find local veterinary diagnostic labs near you.

There are labs in Elkins, Fletcher, Monroe and Raleigh.

If you lose a bird, you can have a necropsy done at one of the state labs to find out root cause for what killed them.
 
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Scsmith42 said:
Per my wife, the state diagnostic lab in Raleigh (Rollins) does the tests for 6 bucks each. For a flock, what you’d do is take multiple samples from your birds, mix the samples together and then send it in. They will make recommendations for treatment too if they find something wrong.

Look up NCAGR.gov to find local veterinary diagnostic labs near you.

There are labs in Elkins, Fletcher, Monroe and Raleigh.

If you lose a bird, you can have a necropsy done at one of the state labs to find out root cause for what killed them.
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This is excellent info. I knew the state lab would do a necropsy on a bird but I haven't looked into the associated fees. $6 float is CHEAP from what all i've seen others pay on the chicken forum. Please tell your wife I said thank you!
 
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noway2 said:
@hp468 Do a search for Microscopes on this site. It looks like there are several offerings for pallets of them for about $152. Might find one or more worth A LOT more than that in there.

Bid Home

recoup.bid.assetworks.com recoup.bid.assetworks.com
Click to expand...

The pallets ended today. They had 5.

Winning bids:
$900 33 scopes
$910 35 scopes
$910 36 scopes
$1525 35 scopes
$2742 37 scopes
 
Well, decisions were made. Scope, fuge, slides, etc are here. Wife found a cheap microscope camera as well so we gave it a shot.

@mj1angier
@noway2
@Oneofsix
@Scsmith42


Tonight we ran our first float test. We have a little bantam having some issues. Looking like she's got coccidia, treatment just started. This will pay for itself quickly. @DrScaryGuy I winged it tonight, planning to do some reading on your lighting stuff this weekend. Excuse the crap image, the computer battery died and we lost all the images we snapped (software doesn't automatically save the snapshots). May do it again tomorrow to get better pics.

1674878422918.png
1674878445875.png
 
thanks.
this is very interesting.

"Scope, fuge, slides, etc are here. Wife found a cheap microscope camera as well so we gave it a shot."

where, specifically, did you/wife get all that?
please post the website address, street address, etc.
 
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