More military recruitment woes...

Chuckman

Chuckman

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Army has decent retention, but can't recruit fast enough:

www.militarytimes.com

Citing recruiting woes, Army will shed up to 28,000 troops in next year

The service has been struggling with recruiting in 2022.
www.militarytimes.com www.militarytimes.com

I didn't know the army had a pre-basic prep camp. That's pretty novel.

But the Marines are smaller and easier to offset with retention:

seapowermagazine.org

Good Retention Cushioning Recruiting Challenges, Marine Assistant Commandant Says - Seapower

WASHINGTON — The U.S. Marine Corps is focusing on retention of serving Marines as a way to mitigate the challenges of recruiting in today’s American society, the Corps’ assistant commandant said in recent public forums. “Our recruiting challenges this year...
seapowermagazine.org seapowermagazine.org
 
I remember a GED camp that was pre-basic training going on in maybe 2007-2009?

That was slightly different because they were recruiting massive amounts of people, retention was good and still wanted more; now they can’t get anyone to stay in or show any interest in joining
 
11B CIB said:
I remember a GED camp that was pre-basic training going on in maybe 2007-2009?

That was slightly different because they were recruiting massive amounts of people, retention was good and still wanted more; now they can’t get anyone to stay in or show any interest in joining
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The academies have a prep school. Most SOF units have a prep school. Flight schools have prep schools.

If people want to join and are motivated, why not? I like the idea.
 
Chuckman said:
The academies have a prep school. Most SOF units have a prep school. Flight schools have prep schools.

If people want to join and are motivated, why not? I like the idea.
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My only concern would be getting out what they put in. Flight and Special Operations being tip of the spear, the prep for them has a certain standard or quality….I just don’t want the GED school for Ernie the motor T wrench turner to be a massive waste of money
 
11B CIB said:
My only concern would be getting out what they put in. Flight and Special Operations being tip of the spear, the prep for them has a certain standard or quality….I just don’t want the GED school for Ernie the motor T wrench turner to be a massive waste of money
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They always need cooks!
In my era (early 1970s), they'd just keep recycling people through basic until they lost weight, or learned to count past 4 (or understand English), then they were moved on to AIT.
 
11B CIB said:
My only concern would be getting out what they put in. Flight and Special Operations being tip of the spear, the prep for them has a certain standard or quality….I just don’t want the GED school for Ernie the motor T wrench turner to be a massive waste of money
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Yeah, I am down with that.

There is a disconnect with the 5-sided puzzle palace. They want the bodies, but they can't recruit the bodies. The myth of people not wanting to join because of 'woke' or 'vax' is mostly a myth, because they represent a small percentage. So they people who want to join, but can't because 'regs.' Reduce moral waivers ("I was young a stupid"), reduce medical waivers ("I'm on cholesterol meds and ADHD meds"), make prep schools for borderline ASVAB and bodyweight. This will fix retention, too.

The military is so stupid because they can do it; they just don't want to, then they cry the 'poor me blues'.

Edited to add, it's not just the army. The Navy, Marines, and AF all have their own recruitment and retention issues they could fix if they wanted to.
 
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Maybe it is time for our own 'Gurkhas'. Pre-1946 many Filipinos served in the U.S. Navy. Maybe we should establish a regiment of Filipinos, citizens of the Philippines who enlist in the U.S. Army and serve under U.S. officers. Many Filipinos are fluent in English, already have relatives in the U.S. and have a positive image of this country. I trained with a Filipino exchange officer, he was no nonsense on duty and combat veteran of the southern islands insurgency. That was back in 1981.

Probably never happen but throwing it out there for discussion.
 
Diablos said:
i think its more complicated than than

www.govexec.com

Fewer Military Families Would Recommend Uniformed Service Than in 2019, Survey Finds

The Military Family Advisory Network poll may have warning signs for recruiters.
www.govexec.com www.govexec.com
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And that cannot be discounted: 79% of kids who join (the army) have/had a family member who served (https://recruiting.army.mil/pao/facts_figures/). I am sure the numbers are relatively similar for other branches.

A lot of the reasons in the article you linked, the Marines and Navy are trying to affect change; things like unaccompanied tours, the ability to contract to stay at one base for multiple tours, etc. The military is NOT a family-friendly organization ("if we wanted you to have a wife we would have issued one in your seabag"). The Marines used to float from time to time the idea of requiring enlistees to be single and not get married during their first tour.

I would be curious to see the stats in that article by branch. I am sure the perception in the AF is different than the perception with the Marines (or army or navy).
 
rufrdr said:


Maybe it is time for our own 'Gurkhas'. Pre-1946 many Filipinos served in the U.S. Navy. Maybe we should establish a regiment of Filipinos, citizens of the Philippines who enlist in the U.S. Army and serve under U.S. officers. Many Filipinos are fluent in English, already have relatives in the U.S. and have a positive image of this country. I trained with a Filipino exchange officer, he was no nonsense on duty and combat veteran of the southern islands insurgency. That was back in 1981.

Probably never happen but throwing it out there for discussion.
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We have so many Filipinos in nursing we could stand up several divisions. Interesting idea, though.

The Gurkhas are just bad asses.
 
Chuckman said:
And that cannot be discounted: 79% of kids who join (the army) have/had a family member who served (https://recruiting.army.mil/pao/facts_figures/). I am sure the numbers are relatively similar for other branches.

A lot of the reasons in the article you linked, the Marines and Navy are trying to affect change; things like unaccompanied tours, the ability to contract to stay at one base for multiple tours, etc. The military is NOT a family-friendly organization ("if we wanted you to have a wife we would have issued one in your seabag"). The Marines used to float from time to time the idea of requiring enlistees to be single and not get married during their first tour.

I would be curious to see the stats in that article by branch. I am sure the perception in the AF is different than the perception with the Marines (or army or navy).
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id say thats probably largely dependent on whether you're on the flightline side of things
 
Diablos said:
id say thats probably largely dependent on whether you're on the flightline side of things
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It's all perspective, right? If if you mean that regarding deployments, for them (AF) 90 days is just about as bad as it gets. How many soldiers/Marines/sailors would love to do 'only' 90 days?? If AF life is all they know and they have no context I am sure life sucks. But we know different, especially regarding the AF standard of living (AF chow hall anyone??). The one thing they DO have that just sucks, some of their bases are in some of the worst places. But I am sure they'd say the same thing about everyone else.
 
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Chuckman said:
It's all perspective, right? If if you mean that regarding deployments, for them (AF) 90 days is just about as bad as it gets. How many soldiers/Marines/sailors would love to do 'only' 90 days?? If AF life is all they know and they have no context I am sure life sucks. But we know different, especially regarding the AF standard of living (AF chow hall anyone??). The one thing they DO have that just sucks, some of their bases are in some of the worst places. But I am sure they'd say the same thing about everyone else.
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af deployments havent been 90 for a long time (changed around '05ish irrc) to reduce the number of hours that were being put on air frames (amongst other reasons). but what i meant was the constant shift changes, never ending 12hr shifts, etc etc


speaking for myself, deploying for the start of iraq and then nearly the beginning of agh were more peaceful times as all the bs falls aside and you just did you job
 
Diablos said:
af deployments havent been 90 for a long time (changed around '05ish irrc) to reduce the number of hours that were being put on air frames (amongst other reasons). but what i meant was the constant shift changes, never ending 12hr shifts, etc etc


speaking for myself, deploying for the start of iraq and then nearly the beginning of agh were more peaceful times as all the bs falls aside and you just did you job
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I'm tracking. Yes, actual deployment is SO much 'easier' than pre-deployment work-ups and all the non-deployment BS.
 
Chuckman said:
Yeah, I am down with that.

There is a disconnect with the 5-sided puzzle palace. They want the bodies, but they can't recruit the bodies. The myth of people not wanting to join because of 'woke' or 'vax' is mostly a myth, because they represent a small percentage. So they people who want to join, but can't because 'regs.' Reduce moral waivers ("I was young a stupid"), reduce medical waivers ("I'm on cholesterol meds and ADHD meds"), make prep schools for borderline ASVAB and bodyweight. This will fix retention, too.

The military is so stupid because they can do it; they just don't want to, then they cry the 'poor me blues'.

Edited to add, it's not just the army. The Navy, Marines, and AF all have their own recruitment and retention issues they could fix if they wanted to.
Click to expand...
Where‘re you getting your information about woke and vax being a myth. I feel pretty certain the more intelligent possible recruits would disagree. Unfortunately the Army needs bodies and are bending rules to acquire them. That equates to more dumbasses and troubled recruits. You think their friends don’t inform them of moral and conditions? Times have drastically changed in two years. Soldiers and officers don’t want to hear about feel good classes and diversity sensitivity when they already operate as a brotherhood.
 
BlackGun said:
Where‘re you getting your information about woke and vax being a myth. I feel pretty certain the more intelligent possible recruits would disagree. Unfortunately the Army needs bodies and are bending rules to acquire them. That equates to more dumbasses and troubled recruits. You think their friends don’t inform them of moral and conditions? Times have drastically changed in two years. Soldiers and officers don’t want to hear about feel good classes and diversity sensitivity when they already operate as a brotherhood.
Click to expand...

Yet the recruiters' phones still ring and bodies still show up. The data shows the three biggest reasons people are not joining are because they cannot join: fatties, health/drugs, not smart enough. The other reasons may be reasons, but they are not the biggest liability (as least right now).

That's problem number 1.

Problem number 2 is retention. I don't know where the army's numbers are, but the Marines retained 100% goal. USN/USMC information shows people getting out not because of vax/wokism, but because they can't stay at their bases, they are forced to go on unaccompanied tours, pay/standard of living.
 
RedneckFur said:
Its just downsizing. We're better off for it.
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I have zero problem with right-sizing. We need a big navy--a bigger navy, more ships--and leaner, smaller Marine Corps (which is what we have now). Can't really speak to the army and air force manning levels. But too much bloat, too big tooth-to-tail ratio, too many wrong 'systems,' too, and too deployed.
 
Chuckman said:
Yeah, I am down with that.

There is a disconnect with the 5-sided puzzle palace. They want the bodies, but they can't recruit the bodies. The myth of people not wanting to join because of 'woke' or 'vax' is mostly a myth, because they represent a small percentage. So they people who want to join, but can't because 'regs.' Reduce moral waivers ("I was young a stupid"), reduce medical waivers ("I'm on cholesterol meds and ADHD meds"), make prep schools for borderline ASVAB and bodyweight. This will fix retention, too.

The military is so stupid because they can do it; they just don't want to, then they cry the 'poor me blues'.

Edited to add, it's not just the army. The Navy, Marines, and AF all have their own recruitment and retention issues they could fix if they wanted to.
Click to expand...

Much truth here.

The larger truth of enlistment and retention is that all the Services adjust their standards as they see fit in order to manage their force levels. The military is downsizing in the aftermath of the end of the Cold War? Suddenly PRT standards become strict as heck and people are getting booted out right and left and meanwhile the educational standards get ramped up.

What? Now times are lean on personnel and we need more people coming in and fewer leaving? Suddenly GEDs are OK and Fat Boy programs are the in thing, and those Selective Enlistment Bonuses get ramped up a couple notches or so.

This isn't really news. In fact, it's old hat.
 
About Filipinos in the military...in my early days in the Navy, a LOT of Filipinos filled billets in administrative and Mess Specialist roles.

And no frickin' wonder with the massive benefits they could receive with respect to citizenship and retirement. Currently, the average annual income for a Filipino family is a smidge over $3,000. A First Class Petty Officer could retire at 20 years with $25,000. And as dedicated as many career Filipinos in the military are, retiring as a Chief or higher isn't unusual. Going back to the Philippines to live while drawing a retirement 10 times or more than the average annual income is one hell of an incentive.

I'd love to have a retirement plan that would have me making 10 times (or more) the average annual income in the United States.
 
Chuckman said:
I have zero problem with right-sizing. We need a big navy--a bigger navy, more ships--and leaner, smaller Marine Corps (which is what we have now). Can't really speak to the army and air force manning levels. But too much bloat, too big tooth-to-tail ratio, too many wrong 'systems,' too, and too deployed.
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that means right-sizing the mission (something "leadership" seems unable to grasp, do more with less...), and that means we dont need to be gallivanting across the globe.
 
RetiredUSNChief said:
About Filipinos in the military...in my early days in the Navy, a LOT of Filipinos filled billets in administrative and Mess Specialist roles.

And no frickin' wonder with the massive benefits they could receive with respect to citizenship and retirement. Currently, the average annual income for a Filipino family is a smidge over $3,000. A First Class Petty Officer could retire at 20 years with $25,000. And as dedicated as many career Filipinos in the military are, retiring as a Chief or higher isn't unusual. Going back to the Philippines to live while drawing a retirement 10 times or more than the average annual income is one hell of an incentive.

I'd love to have a retirement plan that would have me making 10 times (or more) the average annual income in the United States.
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Yes, in the navy you can't swing a dead cat for hitting a Filipino. No judgment, just an exercise in numbers. I got in trouble at boot, twice. Once was for laughing at a Filipino RDC (chief); the louder he yelled, the less English he spoke and it was funnier than hell. I knew a lot of others in all sorts of NECs, but you are right in that there were lot of mess cranks.
 
Chuckman said:
Yes, in the navy you can't swing a dead cat for hitting a Filipino. No judgment, just an exercise in numbers. I got in trouble at boot, twice. Once was for laughing at a Filipino RDC (chief); the louder he yelled, the less English he spoke and it was funnier than hell. I knew a lot of others in all sorts of NECs, but you are right in that there were lot of mess cranks.
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Nobody can cuss like a Filipino Chief, and nobody can make cussing FUNNIER sounding then a Filipino Chief!
 
Chuckman said:
Yet the recruiters' phones still ring and bodies still show up. The data shows the three biggest reasons people are not joining are because they cannot join: fatties, health/drugs, not smart enough. The other reasons may be reasons, but they are not the biggest liability (as least right now).

That's problem number 1.

Problem number 2 is retention. I don't know where the army's numbers are, but the Marines retained 100% goal. USN/USMC information shows people getting out not because of vax/wokism, but because they can't stay at their bases, they are forced to go on unaccompanied tours, pay/standard of living.
Click to expand...
Link
 
Diablos said:
that means right-sizing the mission (something "leadership" seems unable to grasp, do more with less...)
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I'm not sure that "right-sizing the mission" necessarily means "do more with less".
What seems to happen when people try to "do more with less" is leaders flog their people harder to try and accomplish the mission with less people, but all they seem to accomplish is increasing burnout and hurting retention.

The military does not have enough people to accomplish its current mission. Attempting to maintain the same mission with less people will inevitably result in people leaving sooner because they are overworked, leaving the remaining people to be worked even harder. The solution is to identify what really needs to be done, and focusing on that so that current manning levels can support the new mission.
 
I can't help but feel that the vax mandates (which are completely unjustifiable at this point) and woke crap that are devastating our military are part of a plan to do exactly that. Remember the socialist /communist goal is to take us down. They said they would do it from the inside and they are.
 
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GoWolfpack said:
I'm not sure that "right-sizing the mission" necessarily means "do more with less".
What seems to happen when people try to "do more with less" is leaders flog their people harder to try and accomplish the mission with less people, but all they seem to accomplish is increasing burnout and hurting retention.

The military does not have enough people to accomplish its current mission. Attempting to maintain the same mission with less people will inevitably result in people leaving sooner because they are overworked, leaving the remaining people to be worked even harder. The solution is to identify what really needs to be done, and focusing on that so that current manning levels can support the new mission.
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doing more with less has been the military leadership mantra for the last few decades and is not apart of right-sizing the mission at all (nor was my intention to say that it was).
 
Flashpoint said:
I can't help but feel that the vax mandates (which are completely unjustifiable at this point) and woke crap that are devastating our military are part of a plan to do exactly that. Remember the socialist /communist goal is to take us down. They said they would do it from the inside and they are.
Click to expand...

The numbers being fired for vax mandate ain't nothing, but not shutting down the services, either. When it shuts down mission readiness, that's a problem. Some branches and units have weathered it better than others.

It is a problem for sure.
 
Chuckman said:
The numbers being fired for vax mandate ain't nothing, but not shutting down the services, either. When it shuts down mission readiness, that's a problem. Some branches and units have weathered it better than others.

It is a problem for sure.
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that will happen when they enforce the mandate on the NG
 
Diablos said:
doing more with less has been the military leadership mantra for the last few decades and is not apart of right-sizing the mission at all (nor was my intention to say that it was).
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Glad you clarified. Guess I misunderstood.

In my shipyard experience "Do more with less" is a lazy way of dealing with budget problems.
 
GoWolfpack said:
The military does not have enough people to accomplish its current mission.
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What actually is that mission? As an outsider looking in, I don't have any idea what our military does other than support lots and lots and lots of people in every country everywhere for no apparent benefit for those of us paying the bills. What more is needed? There are 50,000 in Japan, seems like a lot of people to do... stuff.
 
Jayne said:
What actually is that mission? As an outsider looking in, I don't have any idea what our military does other than support lots and lots and lots of people in every country everywhere for no apparent benefit for those of us paying the bills. What more is needed? There are 50,000 in Japan, seems like a lot of people to do... stuff.
Click to expand...

project our flex
 
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