More military recruitment woes...

GoWolfpack said:
Glad you clarified. Guess I misunderstood.

In my shipyard experience "Do more with less" is a lazy way of dealing with budget problems.
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"Doing more with less" is fairly standard operating procedure. The only time I recall that we were flush with resources and money was right after 9/11, otherwise it's do more with less.

The other issue with right sizing and appropriate missions is mission creep. You get a mission entirely within your wheelhouse, then something else gets added, and something else gets added, and so on and so on and so on. Next thing you know you're in a damn country for 20 years.
Jayne said:
What actually is that mission? As an outsider looking in, I don't have any idea what our military does other than support lots and lots and lots of people in every country everywhere for no apparent benefit for those of us paying the bills. What more is needed? There are 50,000 in Japan, seems like a lot of people to do... stuff.
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The Navy has duties which have been codified into freedom of navigation, keeping sea lanes open, projecting power, partnering with the Marine Corps. They have deterrent responsibility with missile subs. They are also charged with SIGINT and ELINT.

The Marine Corps? Their job is to kill people and break stuff.

The military is an organization is bloated, and although almost all the leadership will tell you they are shorthanded, the reality is they can chop off a decent portion and still maintain capability. A walk through the Pentagon will confirm that.

Is too big and cumbersome for a peace time military. But to make it the right size our esteemed elected officials need to change national strategy and defense policy, which almost none of them will ever do.
 
I just looked it up because I didn't know, we have 643 flag officers. Not sure why that is the case. They are actually reducing that number, but not by a lot.

Most generals and admirals are not in war fighting positions, most of them are in procurement, logistics, policy, strategy, everything except how to kill bad people. That is a problem.
 
Chuckman said:
But to make it the right size our esteemed elected officials need to change national strategy and defense policy, which almost none of them will ever do.
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Yea, that's the problem. The 'mission' is to make money, and if they have to build stuff and float it all over the globe to do it, that's what they'll do.

Being able to recruit people into their money laundering scheme, doesn't break my heart. But as I said, I'm an outsider. I turned down my ROTC scholarship back in the day; didn't want to be part of something I didn't agree with.
 
Jayne said:
Yea, that's the problem. The 'mission' is to make money, and if they have to build stuff and float it all over the globe to do it, that's what they'll do.

Being able to recruit people into their money laundering scheme, doesn't break my heart. But as I said, I'm an outsider. I turned down my ROTC scholarship back in the day; didn't want to be part of something I didn't agree with.
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Well, I respectfully disagree about making money. In fact we probably waste more money than bring in with the military machine, unless you're talking about the military industrial complex as a whole, then yeah.

Some things we can't do without. We have to have a Navy. For that we need ships. And ships get old and have to be replaced. But we all know the military procurement process is an absolute corrupted money laundering scheme.

What we need are elected officials who say that we will get out of other countries, bring all of our troops to CONUS, focus on defense only. But that ain't ever going to happen again.

If you can't tell, I love talking about this stuff. I am passionate about this. Every single person in this country should be passionate about discussing the military because everyone has a stake in it, whether they are in uniform or not.
 
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Chuckman said:
Well, I respectfully disagree about making money. In fact we probably waste more money than bring in with the military machine, unless you're talking about the military industrial complex as a whole, then yeah.
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That's what I meant. It's not like our military is out conquering lands and brining home riches. They're just burning through lots of money that is being funneled through the system with our govco people skimming their share.

Chuckman said:
Some things we can't do without. We have to have a Navy.
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Why? To protect shipping? Shouldn't that be something the shipping companies do on their own and pass that cost along to the consumers? What's more efficient, a company doing the bare minimum to keep costs down and goods flowing, or the .gov building billions of dollars in ships and staffing them with lots of people with zero accountability and then giving some 'free' protection out? Nothing is more expensive than free .gov services.
 
Jayne said:
That's what I meant. It's not like our military is out conquering lands and brining home riches. They're just burning through lots of money that is being funneled through the system with our govco people skimming their share.



Why? To protect shipping? Shouldn't that be something the shipping companies do on their own and pass that cost along to the consumers? What's more efficient, a company doing the bare minimum to keep costs down and goods flowing, or the .gov building billions of dollars in ships and staffing them with lots of people with zero accountability and then giving some 'free' protection out? Nothing is more expensive than free .gov services.
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Believe it or not, freedom of navigation (keeping shipping lanes open) goes back to why they stood the Navy up in the Constitution. That was codified back as far as then. That was just cemented into policy with the Barbary pirates and Thomas Jefferson, and grew from there. And that is the foundation of why we are having the issues with the Chinese in the South Pacific.
 
Chuckman said:
Army has decent retention, but can't recruit fast enough:

www.militarytimes.com

Citing recruiting woes, Army will shed up to 28,000 troops in next year

The service has been struggling with recruiting in 2022.
www.militarytimes.com www.militarytimes.com

I didn't know the army had a pre-basic prep camp. That's pretty novel.

But the Marines are smaller and easier to offset with retention:

seapowermagazine.org

Good Retention Cushioning Recruiting Challenges, Marine Assistant Commandant Says - Seapower

WASHINGTON — The U.S. Marine Corps is focusing on retention of serving Marines as a way to mitigate the challenges of recruiting in today’s American society, the Corps’ assistant commandant said in recent public forums. “Our recruiting challenges this year...
seapowermagazine.org seapowermagazine.org
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Neither article even mentions the forbidden V word.
 
Chuckman said:
Believe it or not, freedom of navigation (keeping shipping lanes open) goes back to why they stood the Navy up in the Constitution.
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You alluded to that earlier which is why I grabbed it as an example. Still don't agree it applies to what we're doing now.
 
www.politico.com

Congress urges military to ‘do more’ to fix recruitment crisis

Lawmakers from both parties are putting increasing pressure on the Pentagon to fix the recruitment crisis that threatens to leave the military well short of its goals to bring new troops aboard this year, in what is widely considered the worst recruiting environment since the end of the Vietnam War.
www.politico.com www.politico.com

More on why the low numbers:

www.nbcnews.com

Why is the U.S. military struggling to recruit young Americans?

With a record low number of Americans eligible to serve, and few of those willing to do it, this "is the year we question the sustainability of the all-volunteer force,” said an expert.
www.nbcnews.com www.nbcnews.com

www.foxnews.com

Military recruitment lags despite reduced targets, record incentives to boost interest

The military has to compete with a healthy job market that has wide appeal to the kind of candidates that could fill more niche roles in the various armed services.
www.foxnews.com www.foxnews.com

www.heritage.org

Military Recruiting Is Increasingly AWOL. Can We Fix It?

It’s national budget time in Washington, so the conversation on Capitol Hill is focused on numbers. But an important number is being overlooked, one that affects our ability to defend ourselves. At a time when threats abroad are growing, America’s ability to recruit the volunteers needed to...
www.heritage.org www.heritage.org
 
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Jayne said:
You alluded to that earlier which is why I grabbed it as an example. Still don't agree it applies to what we're doing now.
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I get that, and I don't. If a US-flagged ship is attacked at sea, should we not respond? Almost 100% of goods from overseas comes via shipping. It would not take long to destroy our economy.
 
Chuckman said:
I get that, and I don't. If a US-flagged ship is attacked at sea, should we not respond? Almost 100% of goods from overseas comes via shipping. It would not take long to destroy our economy.
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No, we should not respond. if a ship wants protection outside the US, it should be able to contract with someone to provide that protection or provide it itself. It's a cost of doing business and should be paid by the people doing that business (and passing it along to their customers). "Free" stuff provided by the .gov is the worst way to do anything since it's not paid for by those directly benefiting from it, it's going through a dozen layers of corruption.

The .gov provides no protection to the citizens inside the country, why would they provide it outside?
 
Jayne said:
No, we should not respond. if a ship wants protection outside the US, it should be able to contract with someone to provide that protection or provide it itself. It's a cost of doing business and should be paid by the people doing that business (and passing it along to their customers). "Free" stuff provided by the .gov is the worst way to do anything since it's not paid for by those directly benefiting from it, it's going through a dozen layers of corruption.

The .gov provides no protection to the citizens inside the country, why would they provide it outside?
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I appreciate your candor and perspective. I don't know that I agree, but I appreciate where you're coming from.
 
Chuckman said:
The military is an organization is bloated, and although almost all the leadership will tell you they are shorthanded, the reality is they can chop off a decent portion and still maintain capability. A walk through the Pentagon will confirm that.

Is too big and cumbersome for a peace time military. But to make it the right size our esteemed elected officials need to change national strategy and defense policy, which almost none of them will ever do.
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A walk through the Pentagon will confirm the upper levels are full of bloat that ought to be cut.
 
rufrdr said:


Maybe it is time for our own 'Gurkhas'. Pre-1946 many Filipinos served in the U.S. Navy. Maybe we should establish a regiment of Filipinos, citizens of the Philippines who enlist in the U.S. Army and serve under U.S. officers. Many Filipinos are fluent in English, already have relatives in the U.S. and have a positive image of this country. I trained with a Filipino exchange officer, he was no nonsense on duty and combat veteran of the southern islands insurgency. That was back in 1981.

Probably never happen but throwing it out there for discussion.
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I guess you have not been to Yokosuka navy base Japan. It is run by the Filipinos.
 
Stout said:
brownstone.org

The Pentagon Owns Its Recruiting Crisis ⋆ Brownstone Institute

In short, the Pentagon’s stubborn adherence to its Covid protocol is breaking faith with its once loyal base.
brownstone.org brownstone.org
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COVID/vax aside, the 5-sided Puzzle Palace's "stubborn adherence" to a number of failing recruitment and retention policies have given them the big shovel to dig the hole they are in. A lot of people, and not just veterans and people in uniform, have given them all sorts of great ideas, but they just want to throw money at it like signing bonuses are the only thing that's going to help.
 
Stout said:
Harsh take...

identitydixie.com

No Thanks: Seven Reasons the U.S. Military is Falling Short of Recruitment Goals - Identity Dixie

The United States has a problem. That, of course, is a massive understatement. America has multiple problems, but the biggest
identitydixie.com identitydixie.com
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This article is right on. Couldn’t be more correct. The Army especially is having the greatest problem but they are by far the largest. Loyd Austin the diversity hire is a full on damn idiot. Everybody in the military recognizes it but can’t say one word about it. Any of you guys want to bunk every night with homosexuals and trannys? I have gay friends but I ain’t bunking with them.
 
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BlackGun said:
This article is right on. Couldn’t be more correct. The Army especially is having the greatest problem but they are by far the largest. Loyd Austin the diversity hire is a full on damn idiot. Everybody in the military recognizes it but can’t say one word about it. Any of you guys want to bunk every night with homosexuals and trannys? I have gay friends but I ain’t bunking with them.
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A lot of truth to your statement, I will say gays have been in the military since, well, forever. Generally, you knew who they were, but so long as they didn't "make a move", you let them bet. I have zero experience with transgenders, so can't comment on that other than to say, that would make me uncomfortable.
 
Diablos said:
I wonder why we have retention issues...

View attachment 505619
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Hmmmm. Not sure what to think.

At first pass, my initial thought is, "at least they have AC." There are still still a ton of barracks and family housing that doesn't'; or, just window units. But the idea of programming in a hard limit on AC min/max? that.
 
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Chuckman said:
Hmmmm. Not sure what to think.

At first pass, my initial thought is, "at least they have AC." There are still still a ton of barracks and family housing that doesn't'; or, just window units. But the idea of programming in a hard limit on AC min/max? F*** that.
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they're taking your entire bah (that was the deal back in the day, and they covered everything), but now they're billing you if you exceed a set amount on utilities.

so housing is exploding and bah is no way shape or form is keeping up with that, and now if you want to stay in housing they're going to ram it in dry on their end too.

and i get the no a/c angle too, and the moldy pos barracks...if only people really knew
 
Diablos said:
they're taking your entire bah (that was the deal back in the day, and they covered everything), but now they're billing you if you exceed a set amount on utilities.

so housing is exploding and bah is no way shape or form is keeping up with that, and now if you want to stay in housing they're going to ram it in dry on their end too.

and i get the no a/c angle too, and the moldy pos barracks...if only people really knew
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Yeah, that's pretty up. I mean, some poor schmuck from Minnesota should not have to pay extra if he is stationed at Ft. Polk and wants to be a little cooler. Their desire to 'go green', while rooted in good intentions, has sinister downhill effects. To raise the quality of living to 'normal' from squalor (which it damn well needs to be) and imposing Big Brother overwatch and sanctions is no bueno.
 
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BAH for my son in Augusta, GA was way too short in this screwed up housing market. Never even come close to house rent alone anywhere he looked. The difference from the last place was $600 out of pocket per month. The Army hasn’t made adjustments to the Biden runaway inflation.
 
BlackGun said:
BAH for my son in Augusta, GA was way too short in this screwed up housing market. Never even come close to house rent alone anywhere he looked. The difference from the last place was $600 out of pocket per month. The Army hasn’t made adjustments to the Biden runaway inflation.
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BAH/BAS never, ever, keeps up with standard COLA or 'normal' inflation, let alone this economic abortion we're in. This is why you have 5 people living in crappy apartments.
 
Jayne said:
if a ship wants protection outside the US, it should be able to contract with someone to provide that protection or provide it itself.
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Privateers....I love it. Bring back the peg legs and eye patches!
 
BlackGun said:
BAH for my son in Augusta, GA was way too short in this screwed up housing market. Never even come close to house rent alone anywhere he looked. The difference from the last place was $600 out of pocket per month. The Army hasn’t made adjustments to the Biden runaway inflation.
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Hell, that’s it? If I lived in a place that my BAH covered it would be in a ghetto and not safe at all. I come out of pocket almost $1K to cover my rent.
 
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