Need help IDing rifle

Un modified carcano rifles in decent shape have been steady going up in price. The problem with alot of them is people cut them down and "sportarize" them. The carcano rifles have a gain twist rifling which twist tightens as it moves toward muzzle. So if barrel has been shortened at all it almost makes them worthless as shooters and collectibles.
 
HandyDave said:
Un modified carcano rifles in decent shape have been steady going up in price. The problem with alot of them is people cut them down and "sportarize" them. The carcano rifles have a gain twist rifling which twist tightens as it moves toward muzzle. So if barrel has been shortened at all it almost makes them worthless as shooters and collectibles.
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Dang. That is a fun fact that I didn't know.

I never thought about having a barrel where the twist rate changes as the projectile moves along.

That's such a genius idea, if it works... Are there any other examples of weapons with a changing twist rate in their factory barrel?

Does it actually help with accuracy, stabilization, etc? Seems like if it did, it would be done in all modern barrels...
 
Alabamacoastie said:
Dang. That is a fun fact that I didn't know.

I never thought about having a barrel where the twist rate changes as the projectile moves along.

That's such a genius idea, if it works... Are there any other examples of weapons with a changing twist rate in their factory barrel?

Does it actually help with accuracy, stabilization, etc? Seems like if it did, it would be done in all modern barrels...
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I've owned several carcano rifles and have done some research on them so that's why I know a little bit. There was some other rifles that had a gain twist rifling but can't remember exactly which was mentioned. I also can't speak of the totality of why it was done or why it's not used in more modern guns. Maybe some of the other old war collectors has a little more knowledge on the why and what not. I do know from my experiences owning and shooting several different 6.5x52 carcano rifles that cut down barrels don't work right. First one I ever owned was heavily sportarized and cut down and it would keyhole almost every shot and wasn't close to accurate. I sold it and found me one that was all original and no keyholing and reasonable accuracy for the time period.
 
HandyDave said:
I've owned several carcano rifles and have done some research on them so that's why I know a little bit. There was some other rifles that had a gain twist rifling but can't remember exactly which was mentioned. I also can't speak of the totality of why it was done or why it's not used in more modern guns. Maybe some of the other old war collectors has a little more knowledge on the why and what not. I do know from my experiences owning and shooting several different 6.5x52 carcano rifles that cut down barrels don't work right. First one I ever owned was heavily sportarized and cut down and it would keyhole almost every shot and wasn't close to accurate. I sold it and found me one that was all original and no keyholing and reasonable accuracy for the time period.
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Thank you for taking the time to share this additional info!
 
cubrock said:
Fixed rear sight indicates a variant of the Model 38.
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Nice catch on the fixed rear sight. I missed that. The 91/38 started as 7.35 didn't it? Then later was rechambered back to the 6.5 because of problems if my thinking is right. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
 
HandyDave said:
Nice catch on the fixed rear sight. I missed that. The 91/38 started as 7.35 didn't it? Then later was rechambered back to the 6.5 because of problems if my thinking is right. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
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They went back to 6.5 when WW2 broke out because they still had piles of 6.5 ammo and rifles.
 
Not to derail the thread, but I read that the Italians used an undersized bullet which caused those rifles to have accuracy issues, and much of the surplus ammo used .264 bullets where modern ammo used a .268? Its been a while since I read that but wanted to see if there was any truth to it.
 
Tarowah said:
Not to derail the thread, but I read that the Italians used an undersized bullet which caused those rifles to have accuracy issues, and much of the surplus ammo used .264 bullets where modern ammo used a .268? Its been a while since I read that but wanted to see if there was any truth to it.
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It is actually the opposite. The Italians used .268 bullets and most commercial 6.5mm bullets are undersized compared to that, which can cause accuracy issues when using commercial bullets in an Italian rifle.
 
Tarowah said:
Not to derail the thread, but I read that the Italians used an undersized bullet which caused those rifles to have accuracy issues, and much of the surplus ammo used .264 bullets where modern ammo used a .268? Its been a while since I read that but wanted to see if there was any truth to it.
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I think it was the Italian army operators which caused those rifles to have accuracy issues . . .
 
The poor accuracy myth is a combination of two things - the aforementioned bore diameter differences with commercial 6.5mm and the gain twist rifling they used on their Model 91 infantry rifles. The gain twist worked GREAT! However, when they cut those infantry rifles down to carbines, they cut off the faster twist end of the barrels. The slower twist rifling left didn't adequately stabilize the bullet. Lots of those cut down carbines were surplussed here to the US and US shooters rightly panned how poorly they shot, but wrongly attributed that to ALL EYE-talian military rifles.
 
Thanks for the info folks, it may seem trivial to some, but I absolutely put more stock in the opinions of our members in our little hive mind than I do towards 99% of the interweb, information you can digest coming for a collection of like minded people is invaluable, and I appreciate it a great deal!

So, thank you!
 
i too as the OP am grateful that i could post 2 poorly taken pics and get an answer with a story in less than a day. I could have tried any number of google search combos and only have gotten a close idea.
 
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