New Equiptment and ammo.

Discussion in 'Rimfire Central' started by Lager, Sep 21, 2018.

  1. Lager

    Lager Member

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    Since I just got back into shooting 50 yard comp matches, Ive learned a couple new things.
    I used to use a bi pod and a cheap Caldwell adjustable rest in the rear and found that I have a few flyers that I had no idea where they came from. That's when I found that my Caldwell rest would change the point of aim with just a touch of my finger, it just wasn't stable enough. So, I just bought the Caldwell " The rock BR" and plan to use it on the front and the tall bunny ear bag on the rear.
    Switch ammo when I found that Wolf Target was the bottom grade manufactured by Eley, meaning the lot that produced the most flyers, they sold as Target. What's the point of shooting sub standard ammo ? Then I found out that Wolf Match ammo was the same as SK Rifle Match and the SK served me well years ago so I bought a brick of the Match. It costs $2 more per box of fifty and will be worth it if the heads run straighter.
    I lost my last match by 8 shots, this was out of 100 targets and I got 3rd place behind some very good shooters.
    Hopefully, with my equipment and ammo upgrade I can do better..
     
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  2. mike59

    mike59 Happy, happy, happy Life Member

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    Eley Match (black box) is my go to when I care in my CZ455. I ran some Tenex and it's just as good but not noticeably better ... and of course the caveat ... in MY CZ455. I think you'll like the Eley Match ... never heard anyone complain about it but that also doesn't mean that you won't find something that does better ... in YOUR rifle ;)

    Re rests ... I have a Sinclair Benchrest Style Lightweight Rest and love it! I use Protector bunny ears in the rear. Only problem with this is tat all my excuses are gone and all issues now belong to me - LOL

    https://www.sinclairintl.com/shooti...nchrest-style-lightweight-rest-prod38097.aspx

    Good luck and good shooting!
     
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2018
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  3. Smok3y

    Smok3y New Member

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    I like the SK Rifle Match a lot also. In limited testing, CenterX has been superb in my rifle, but Rifle Match has been right behind it and more than enough for anything I shoot for almost half the price. I did notice that the new batch I received isn't as good as the first batch I got. That, or the rifle might need to be cleaned. RM has been extremely consistent.
     
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  4. Lager

    Lager Member

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    Thanks Mike, Back a few years ago when I competing then, the Eley Black box was the way to go. It performed best in both my Savage and the CZ455 and all the match shooters in my club used it. What's funny now,, is that all the shooters are now using SK Rifle match instead of the Eley Black. The top shooters are now saying the SK is more consistent, which does not make sense to me since its all manufactured at the same plant. Tomorrow is the only day that have available to test the new rest and the new ammo before the next match. Should prove to be interesting to say the least. Thanks for your input, means a lot to me..
     
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  5. Smok3y

    Smok3y New Member

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    Where did you hear that Eley makes SK? Something change recently?
     
  6. Lager

    Lager Member

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    You seem to be a pretty smart guy so let me bounce this idea off you.. Cleaning a 22 lr. I know a guy that's a shooting coach for a high school shooting team and his idea is to never clean the barrel of a 22 lr, when using good quality ammo until the shots starts to stray and that can take up to 1000 rounds thru the barrel. Ive read some things that support this idea and it mentions a burn ring of carbon at the throat area of the barrel that helps stabilize the bullet head as it leaves the cartridge. Now what I have noticed in the past was if I cleaned the bore really well, it took about 10-20 shots to get the barrel calmed down and start to shoot well. If I did not clean it, only took about 5-6 shots . Im thinking just to get up to temps? The silent talk in the shooting shack during the match sort of confirms my observation. Think I'm going to give it a try, will leave the barrel alone but pull the bolt out and clean the face, extractor and ejector.
     
  7. Lager

    Lager Member

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    Google SK vs Wolf, you will find many articles written by Eley admitting to producing all three lines of ammo, just under a different name. Then take a cartridge from all three lines and compare them, other then the flat nosed head of the Eley compare the brass and lube..
     
  8. Smok3y

    Smok3y New Member

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    I know that the Wolf “was” produced on the same lines as SK, but I thought that they just recently changed Wolf over to Eley. It was my understanding that this is a change recently from the SK lines to the Eley lines. SK is owned by Lapua, so I would not think that Eley makes SK ammo.
     
  9. Smok3y

    Smok3y New Member

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    I’m not sure I even want to attempt getting into this debate over cleaning habits!
    For every expert you find that says don’t clean, you find one that says clean. I think a lot depends on the barrel you are shooting. Match barrels have a much tighter spec, and build up could affect them faster. That carbon ring is the one thing that I have heard is what you want to get rid of. I don’t clean my cheap 22s and have no problem, but they can’t hit 1/4” targets all day either.
    Also, as far as how clean you try to get it, I think a lot of the difference in how many shots it takes to get ready has to do with the lube on the bullets. Cleaner needs a few more shots to get that coating from the lube.
    I am actually starting to see that carbon ring and I am seeing a few more fliers lately. I am going to give the throat a good cleaning here soon to see if it helps.
     
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  10. Lager

    Lager Member

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    Like you, I didn't want to get into a debate, just your opinion. Think we are in agreement.
     
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  11. Smok3y

    Smok3y New Member

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    Lol! I wasn’t worried about getting in a debate with you, but I’ve seen how people jump on threads about it and blow it up.
     
  12. CZfool68

    CZfool68 Int'l Man of Mystery Charter Member Sponsor Supporting Member

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    That sounds very nice. Can't tell from that link if I need to buy the actual bag and maybe some hardware with it. Is just the rest i cluded, and the bag extra? Do you have a list of what you bought? And just to be a bigger ignoramous pain in your butt, why this over a Caldwell?
     
  13. mike59

    mike59 Happy, happy, happy Life Member

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    Hey @CZfool68 ,

    It's in the description for the rest ... "Front bag not included."

    When I first bought mine I got the Protector No 2 Regular Owl Ear Front Bag (leather). I bought it directly from Protektor since it came pre-filled.

    Later I bought a forend adapter and an edgewood front bag. The diff between the 2 front bags is that the the protector is curved and better suited for a curved stock. The edgewood is flat and better suited for a flat benchrest stock or for the flat forend adapter.

    The reason I went with the forend adapter/edgewood combination is to help reduce barrel canting issues.

    Here is a link to the forend adapter I have ... https://www.sinclairintl.com/shooti...aptor-sku749004954-35661-68511.aspx?rrec=true


    Edit to add .... forgot to answer your "why sinclair vs. caldwell" ... No reason not to buy the caldwell really but I knew about the Sinclair quality and it was a bit lighter than the caldwell. I've never heard anything bad about the Caldwell but since I knew I'd only be using it for .22 vs heavier cal like 308 I decided to go for the lighter weight but still acceptable stability. I think either would be good and the Caldwell might actually be better for bigger cal since it's a bit heavier so might be a better all around choice depending on what you're going to use it for. If you were going to be really serious about benchrest or F-Class competition you'd probably be looking at the 30+ lbs competition rests in the $500+ range along with the $3000+ dedicated benchrest rifles ... I'm not that serious about it - I'd rather go to the beach for a week - LOL :)

    Hope this is helpful!

    Mike
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2018
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  14. CZfool68

    CZfool68 Int'l Man of Mystery Charter Member Sponsor Supporting Member

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    Thanks for the insight. Yeah, I don't need a competition rig. But I do have a new 6.5 Grendel CZ that I'll likely use the rest for also. So not sure what to do. Read some reviews and Sinclair sounds excellent. But I have to decide if I want to use it with a centerfire too.
     
  15. Lager

    Lager Member

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    Lets just keep this between ourselves then,,,from what I understand from the high dollar bench rest shooters is that they have to clean the chamber especially because their chambers are so tight to begin with ? The burn ring actually degrades their accuracy. But on the cheaper hunting rifle type of rifles, which have a looser chamber, the burn ring actually helps stabilize the boolit head as it enters the barrel lands. Guess it sort of makes sense to me ? Since I have a hunter type of rifle, I'm holding off on the cleaning part just to see what happens..
     
  16. CZfool68

    CZfool68 Int'l Man of Mystery Charter Member Sponsor Supporting Member

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    I have read so many internet posts on this topic that I am convinced either everybody is clueless or rimfire shooting is like black magic or voodoo.
     
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  17. Lager

    Lager Member

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    I gotta tell you, Im pretty happy with the Caldwell Rock.. It came with two bags, one was suited for a rounded stock and another for dedicated bench rest type of rifle stocks with a flat bottom. I did make a modification to the rest by sanding off the textured paint on the vertical adjustable wheel. It made a lot smoother for fine tuning. Was pretty easy to use after that,, I would get the elevation just right and lock it down with twist knob, then adjust the left and right with the other knob and take the shot. There is a bubble level on the heavy base so you can adjust the rest using the screws threaded into the legs. I paid $125 for the Rock and bought it from Amazon along with the Caldwell medium high bunny ears to use on the shoulder stock and I think it cost me another $25 ? I think Im good now,,
     
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  18. CZfool68

    CZfool68 Int'l Man of Mystery Charter Member Sponsor Supporting Member

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    Caldwell probably makes sense for my skills and uses. The heavier rest would probably be better form my centerfire rifle as well. But I do apprciate good gear so am a little torn.
     
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  19. CZfool68

    CZfool68 Int'l Man of Mystery Charter Member Sponsor Supporting Member

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    Ordered the Caldwell Rock BR and some Protektor Bags. This way I'll have something for all my rifles. If someday I shoot more or compete I'll upgrade. Now I just need to shoot, shoot, shoot.
     
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  20. Lager

    Lager Member

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    I think you will be pretty happy with it, I know I am.. when you receive it, just give the threads a lil shot of oil to help smoothen it up. Like I mentioned, I sanded off the rough paint that's on the vertical adjuster wheel to allow the bearing to ride a little smoother, you will understand what part I'm talking about when you get it. There are some rubber feet you can place under the pointed leveling legs to help with grip that I found on Amazon for $7-9, I will probably pick some up. Enjoy it, and good shooting to you..
     
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  21. CZfool68

    CZfool68 Int'l Man of Mystery Charter Member Sponsor Supporting Member

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    I am so clueless I don't get the adjustment thing. Isn't that what the scope is for? I just want a solid, stable rest.
     
  22. Lager

    Lager Member

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    The adjustable front rest allows you to move your foregrip up /down and left and right to allow you the ability to aim at your target while your rear rest stays stationary. This means that your rear rest is now the pivot point. The scope will still need to be adjusted for elevation and windage at the distance you are shooting at. The adjustability of the front rest comes in handy when shooting at numerous targets at the same distance. Hope this helps.
     
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2018
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  23. BatteryOaksBilly

    BatteryOaksBilly A SHOOTER Benefactor Life Member Supporting Member

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    We have a 50 yard indoor range, only one I know of in this state. We have some of the best bench rest shooters around including Humble Henry Rivers past Champion of this discipline. I have seen things happen when these folks get together here to test different lots of match .22 that I never knew existed.
    They will turn the fans on to clear out the range and shoot groups that are to me magical [.11]. They can tell when there is too much debris In The Air [groups start opening up]. Then they turn the fans back on and start over. They won't even shoot with the fans On. Scatters groups too much. Hell, the groups are under the worst conditions [fans on] better than I have ever seen. These men know this game. It's nothing for them to shoot through 10 or more lots of ammo to get the one they want. They say our 50 yard indoor range is a great benefit to them insofar as eliminating variables. You precision guys are a dedicated bunch. Far too disciplined for me.
     
  24. Lager

    Lager Member

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    Im fortunate to be a member of a gun club here in NC where we have a 100 yard indoor range and that's where we hold 50 yard bench rest comps for the 22 LR. I know just what you are talking about when you mention the dedication of our Match Rifle competitors. Personally I compete in the Hunter rifle class, but the competition is just as dedicated. Yeah,, we ARE crazy.
     
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  25. CZfool68

    CZfool68 Int'l Man of Mystery Charter Member Sponsor Supporting Member

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    Yes, there is a level I don't have the time, discipline or money to reach. But I appreciate the skill and dedication. I will be happy when I hit that spot more than once in a row!
     
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  26. ECNC

    ECNC Member

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    I have the Caldwell Rock (older version). It works for what I do. I understand that the newer versions are more stable then the older. I think for the price it is it is good. If I was into serious comp. I would most likely go with something else.
     
  27. CZfool68

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    Had it out on Saturday. Works very well for what I do. Got a few scopes sighted in and messed with the new Remmy. Need to take the time with the CZ Varmint now with various ammo and see what I can do,
     
  28. Lager

    Lager Member

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    Mine didn't work out so good this past weekend at the match so another gent let me use his that he modded back a while ago. What he did to the Rock was to remove the adjustable ears and the sand filled bag, then made a wooden platform on top of the rest with a very high density foam covered in duck tape. What this did was lock the forgrip solidly in place creating a much more stable platform. Then he had me use his rear rest which was made by Protecktor ( I believe that's the spelling) and it was a very hard sand filled rear rest with just a small groove for the rear stock to fit into.. Using his set up after bombing the first half of the comp helped rally my score a lot.. The other half of terrible match was the change to Wolf match Extra from the Match target that I was using. Its supposedly better but I found a different result, 5 shots out of 25 per target run off to the 8 ring by vertical stringing. This means too high or low and I could tell by the sound where it was going to go. The second half of the match, I went back to the Wolf target and its scored a lot better but it was too little to late. This batch of Wolf Extra I have is just junk, not even worth using for practice, what's the point? The good news is that, out of 100 shots ? I hit the target that's the size of this . 27 times out of 100 which is really good for a sporter rifle made for hunting. This Savage has the capability of doing well, I just need to upgrade my ammo to probably Eley Match, fix my rests and then I can bring home a $10 cheap butt trophy.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2018
  29. CZfool68

    CZfool68 Int'l Man of Mystery Charter Member Sponsor Supporting Member

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    I have a Protektor read bag and order a couple different sized fronts from them too. I am not going to get overly crazy, but wanted a few options depending on what rifle I am using a the time. My centerfire stock is different from my 22. And both of my bolt action 22's are different sized stocks.
     
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  30. mike59

    mike59 Happy, happy, happy Life Member

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    @Lager - just to let you know ... the Protektor bags ... you mentioned it was "really hard". You can adjust that by either removing or adding sand. Some companies actually sell them empty and others sell them pre-filled. I use one of those for my rear bag and very happy with it.
     
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  31. Lager

    Lager Member

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    I really liked the hard bag he had, but these things are not cheap. He let me use his back up bag that's hes had for years, his main rear rest is actually made from wood covered in leather and I might try to build something similar. Im trying to keep my cost down, already the wife is starting to give me the stink eye when I get a new piece of equipment and don't come home with a trophy like I used to.. Starting to think I should hit the local trophy store, buy some of those cheap trophy's and have them engraved with things like " Match Winner" or " Worlds Best Shooter" hide them in a box and pull it out when I get home.. Might ease her pain of seeing the next Credit card bill with some Eley ammo that might or might not work as planned on it..
     
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