New level of license?

[htperry]

From the ARRL:

An Entry Level License Committee was established by the ARRL Board of Directors and appointed in September 2016. As part of its ongoing work, the committee is gathering member input and will make recommendations to the Board for possible rules changes to submit to the FCC.

The result could mean changes to the Technician license, but it could also be an additional, but simpler, license with privileges that would give a newcomer a taste of most facets of ham radio from HF to VHF and UHF.

The committee has created an online member survey. Please complete and submit the survey no later than April 7, 2017. Survey results will be published.

 

[georgel]

Howard, you've been calling for this for a long time.

 

[hp468]

Eh, I see no point in adding another class of license for a beginner. I can't imagine they would attract more people to the hobby with an easier exam. A quick google search for freq, $25 ht, and some time listening should give people an idea what they are getting into without having to take a test to get licensed. That's how I got into to, can't get much easier than that.

 

[htperry]

Howard, you've been calling for this for a long time.

I've said for years the Tech license should be a simple no-test application with a very firm agreement to follow the rules.

Our hobby has not kept pace as a percentage of the population. We also need more nurturing operators that don't shun new operators or call names and shame as looking for the Easy Button. We need youth participation and the current license system is a barrier to entry. That is the reality.

 

[JohnFreeman]

Hey, we could call it something new. Like...hmmm NOVICE !

I don't agree with making it easier than it already is. Part of the attraction (assuming there still is one) is it's exclusivity and the requirement for some actual work to achieve it. I guess I don't understand the concept that modern youth must be assumed too lazy to put forth effort for something worthwhile.

Make it any easier , and we'd be stuffing them free in boxes of Raisin Bran.

Grumpy Old John

 

[JimP42]

I don't have a strong opinion either way, but I got all the way to Extra with maybe 6 hours of study, no operating, and a technical background. The bar is already pretty low.

 

[NCLivingBrit]

Part of the attraction (assuming there still is one) is it's exclusivity and the requirement for some actual work to achieve it.

Right, but be prepared to see a hobby that shrinks not grows. The licence test is something of a barrier to people who are interested in trying HAM radio but not necessarily wanting to sink a bunch of time into trying it out.

How many people would shoot that first gun if they had to buy a book, pass a test and apply for a government permission slip to do so?

 

[htperry]

The current system has little incentive to attract new blood. We are a hobby and volunteer essential service in decline, even with the legion of non-practicing preppers of the last decade. Not much value was added in that panic.

Youth and many adults see nothing so interesting about ham radio as to make much effort. Youth will continue to be dazzled by smartphones, while we have our standards. We can let go of the entrance hazing or accept that citizen radio services will be scavenged by commercial interests and eventually die an uneventful, unnoticed death from lack of interest. There may be a tipping point.

Of course, I have my license. The upside is that a new class would give us a reason to taunt, like the now SKs that shouted "no coders" for 15 years after the last license class changes. What fun that might be.

Somehow we need a way to get people on the air so they can see what a great hobby we enjoy. That is the point of the ARRL effort, the future of ham radio.

 

[htperry]

I do want to say that while I've spoken of this need for years, I am not so interested as to do more than give lip service toward "do something". I enjoy and respect the exclusivity that differentiates us from CB and FRS. We need ham radio to be there for future generations.

 

[JohnFreeman]

Damned no-coders!!!

 

[backwoodsshooter]

I have a feeling a lot of the new tech class folks are people getting licenses so they can use UHF stuff for FPV ( first person view) flying. I know my Dragon link TX for my airplane runs @ 433mhz

 

[georgel]

I'd be open to something in between, like an open book test that goes over rules and guidelines. Then maybe a restricted to HT's or low wattage?? I fear the CB model taking hold.

 

[noway2]

I've said for years the Tech license should be a simple no-test application with a very firm agreement to follow the rules.

Our hobby has not kept pace as a percentage of the population. We also need more nurturing operators that don't shun new operators or call names and shame as looking for the Easy Button. We need youth participation and the current license system is a barrier to entry. That is the reality.

I agree wth this. I've been trying to get my wife involved, not so much because I think she would be a regular on the air, at least at first, but she does see the importance and value from the prepper side and also understands that one can't stick a Boafeng in a faraday cage and expect to do anything with it after the lights go out. For someone like my wife, the technical and electrical stuff is a barrier. You can demand that she learn it to understand something about radio, but what level of understanding will there be in reality? None. Instead focus on the rules and also etiquette which is lacking in the current system.

There is one guy in particular who is on the .250 in Greensboro who is constantly complaining about LIDS. There are a couple of guys don't no tech classes in Kernersville and he came on to complain about this. He is often going on about their disrespect and their language and all sorts of other things. He complains about people talking technical topics or even about him radio. Quit honestly, I have no idea what he's hearing and I'm starting to think it's in his head. Anytime someone other then his buddy comes on, he leaves (he says he's pulling into the parking lot at work, but I think he just disappears to lurk). In fact, I think he acts like a LID. I see similar behavior in other old timers who are leaving VHF while complaining about the lids, kids, and bathroom talk. Again, no idea what he's talking about. The only kid I've come across is km4uhv or ultra high voltage as she's been dubbed who is in middle school and people like talking to her.

edut to add: the cat in my avatar most certainly is a LID!

 

[htperry]

I'd be open to something in between, like an open book test that goes over rules and guidelines. Then maybe a restricted to HT's or low wattage?? I fear the CB model taking hold.

I understand the slippery slope, but we can hold on to the idea of forced technical learning (reality is memorized answers) or try before it's too late to adjust with the times to do what's necessary to keep new blood in our hobby. I'm glad the ARRL and FCC look to our future.

As for the CB model, it seems that new hams are the most respectful of etiquette. Almost every problem area in ham radio is old guys complaining or acting out. I monitor the .250 repeater early in the mornings while I read my Internet machine and drink coffee. I hear the guy noway2 is talking about. He is downright disrespectful to some operators, for no apparent reason. I have resisted the urge to pick up the mic and ask his boggle. I'm not a morning person. LOL

I think we need to concentrate on rules and etiquette through mentoring. If someone has a technical interest, it will come forth. However, radio is different now and the technical knowledge not necessary to enjoy ham radio. We're not converting WWII surplus radios for ham use anymore.

BTW, we have some teenagers in this area that are very impressive operators. KM4FLU and WB4UHF. They give me hope for the future.

 

[noway2]

I took the survey and thought about this for a little while and have two thoughts, neither of which is really covered by the survey. One, they want to offer VHF/UHF as well as HF. The problem I see here is that HF has a substantial cost and technical barrier. I think they would be better suited making the license category VHF and UHF only. This would also help address what they seem to be pushing as their goal of getting people to upgrade, if the newbie class (for lack of a better word) finds that they enjoy the hobby enough to actually want to get into HF they will pursue an upgrade. Keep in mind that with the Internet, like DStar and DMR they can stil talk to foreign countries and this may be a motivating factor to get them to want to upgrade. I do agree with the suggestion to drop the repeater, beacon, and space station segments for this class because I don't think there will be much interest in these areas.

Obe thing that is clear is that these tests are designed by people with a passion for radio and assumes the newbie will have that same passion going into it, which I don't think is the case.

i myself have been studying for the extra class and I haven't gotten on HF yet. The primary reason I am pursuing it is because I am an accredited VE and it will enable me to grade general and extra tests. Still it is a bunch of rote memorization that will likely be forgotten.

htperry one of these days you should stop resisting, it would be choice to see him get dressed down when he gets on that stump, but I do think that it would either have to come from someone he respects and sees as an authority or from someone outside the circle (such as yourself) as thst would show him that he's more visible then he thinks. I had it out with him a bit a couple of weeks ago and he's gotten better towards me. I was hoping that a particular person who was on (and who would have fit the former category) would have commented, but they didn't. This morning he was complaining about someone changing the topic of conversation or sonething like that and then made a comment about LC filters and said thst we got the technology talk out if the way. In any case I would expect a belligerent response.

I do have to wonder what has caused some of the regulars back from the fall to just disappear from the band. Perhaps the ebb and flow is normal.

Every repeater has a culture that is unique. This morning, a similar guy on the S Wake 210 griped about religion and politics being discussed during drive time. The discussion was in response to a question I asked and was polite and respectful. It's funny because the extra license question pool has one about ether topics are prohibited on the sir and religion and politics are two of the wrong answers.

 

[Tigard]

I do want to say that while I've spoken of this need for years, I am not so interested as to do more than give lip service toward "do something". I enjoy and respect the exclusivity that differentiates us from CB and FRS. We need ham radio to be there for future generations.

I absolutely agree with you on this point. Dumbing down an already pretty darn simple license requirement (tech) does more to take existing hams down than it does to elevate the newbs.

Every problem is a marketing opportunity. If you're going to create a new license class, why not bring back the Novice level for $10 (no test, online agreement) and make that have complete dominion over GMRS (up to 50 watts) and all the other unlicensed services including CB. Make it applicable to individuals and groups. That way, the off road clubs et.al. could have UHF repeaters up to 50 watts for their goings on, kids could have their walkie talkies (FRS), businesses would still have their freqs (MURS) and you'd still have HF in the guise of CB (maybe a flood of newbs will help clean that up a bit). Those new licences would show up in the ULS and the ARRL could pound them with emails touting the new Tech license that has low power priveledges on all bands and those that have a genuine interest in the hobby have an easy way to make the transition.

The pieces are all there they just need to be arranged a little differently.

 

[noway2]

Tigard they could cause an awful lot of interference with a 50 watt repeater over a very wide area. I don't think I'd want that operation capability in a sub tech license, I think this is part of the reason for eliminating those sections from the test is a survey option.

 

[Tigard]

I don't think I'd want that operation capability in a sub tech license

Doesn't that capability exist already with a $65 GMRS license? I don't spend any time on GMRS but I don't think it's a problem. Seems to me that a problem is any number of folks that use higher power 2M/440 for their group purposes on whatever frequencies they want. Giving them a cheap, high power option seems a good idea to keep folks in their bands. Being able to have a "club" license helps that.

I guess I should break down and take that survey ;-)

 

[fishgutzy]

Time and money are the primary 'barriers' for anyone with kids. Time being the biggest. I have fishing gear in my garage I have not touched in a couple years. A radio would just sit their collecting dust and my wife would complain about how ugly the antenna tower is

 

[NCLivingBrit]

I'm going to make some comments that some are likely to take ill, but this seems to be the thread to say it in.

A lot (not referencing anyone here) of HAM people seem quite content and indeed prefer that there aren't new users about, like the fact that it's a shrinking hobby and will fight tooth and nail any attempt to make it more accessible. It's a cross between the boys club and exclusivity mentality. I have experienced some of this myself when I was talking to a fellow about buying some spare gear he had, when he found out I was thinking about joining the hobby he flat out stopped negotiation because he didn't want to "be responsible for another damn new guy".

This is fine, I already had/have too many expensive hobbies, but it surely put me off making the effort to get into it. It still does a bit, because it seems that for every one guy who wants to help, there's a few who want to browbeat you with technical terms you don't know, run off the new guys and beat on you with the club of their experience.

There endeth the rant.

 

[noway2]

NCLivingBrit is correct. I think there is some of that going on. Some people have developed their circle of friends and are used to having their repeaters and bands open when they like and resent the idea of it changing. The thing is that if you joking the clubs, and especially if you are active in them, new or not, you've got just as much right to be there and use them as they do. As the FCC says, courtesy is the rule governing use of the spectrum,

At the same time, I think I've encountered more welcoming folks than non welcoming ones.

 

[fishgutzy]

I'm going to make some comments that some are likely to take ill, but this seems to be the thread to say it in.

A lot (not referencing anyone here) of HAM people seem quite content and indeed prefer that there aren't new users about, like the fact that it's a shrinking hobby and will fight tooth and nail any attempt to make it more accessible. It's a cross between the boys club and exclusivity mentality. I have experienced some of this myself when I was talking to a fellow about buying some spare gear he had, when he found out I was thinking about joining the hobby he flat out stopped negotiation because he didn't want to "be responsible for another damn new guy".

This is fine, I already had/have too many expensive hobbies, but it surely put me off making the effort to get into it. It still does a bit, because it seems that for every one guy who wants to help, there's a few who want to browbeat you with technical terms you don't know, run off the new guys and beat on you with the club of their experience.

There endeth the rant.

It is as if they forget they were a NOOB once. Skateboarders are just as bad. In fact shooting is one of the few areas where experienced people are mostly very willing to help NOOBs like when I was brand new. (I still see myself as a NOOB after more than 2 years of firearms ownership and CCH)

 

[JohnFreeman]

I'd suggest that folks not paint with too broad a brush.

I'm strongly against (further) dumbing down a hobby just to drive volumes of folks in, yet I consider myself very open to new hams, and go out of my way to help technically or in any way I can. The whole "it's too hard" argument is a non-starter. I did it as a kid, I upgraded as an adult with full time family and work responsibilities and other priorities. It's easy and just takes some effort. Do we really want to hand out licenses as we would " PARTICIPANT" trophies just for showing up?

That's a great strategy for precisely nothing, and demeans the achievements of those who worked for the accomplishment.

Ham radio IS "exclusive" as it represents a minimal amount of study and commitment. That's nothing to be ashamed of or made fun of. Does it represent superior intellect or great technical knowledge... heck no. It does represent being willing to turn off the game on TV for a few hours and learning something.

Want GMRS? It already exists, but the ARRL doesn't make any money off that, do they?

Want to learn how to get a license or solve a technical issue? I'll be among the first to help you. Want to complain that it's too hard and that you "deserve" it because you want it?

Cry me a river.

John

 

[NCLivingBrit]

Want to complain that it's too hard and that you "deserve" it because you want it?

Cry me a river.

John

And we're not supposed to paint with a broad brush?

This attitude is EXACTLY why I haven't taken the first steps into HAM radio, because if these are the people I'm going to find to talk to when I get there what would be the f'ing point?

And with that, I am out. Enjoy your hobby shrinking as the old guys die off, just like historical miniature wargaming and for the exact same reasons.

 

[georgel]

It is as if they forget they were a NOOB once. Skateboarders are just as bad. In fact shooting is one of the few areas where experienced people are mostly very willing to help NOOBs like when I was brand new. (I still see myself as a NOOB after more than 2 years of firearms ownership and CCH)

That's because, if they screw up they can kill you. So, it's best to teach them.

 

[georgel]

And we're not supposed to paint with a broad brush?

This attitude is EXACTLY why I haven't taken the first steps into HAM radio, because if these are the people I'm going to find to talk to when I get there what would be the f'ing point?

And with that, I am out. Enjoy your hobby shrinking as the old guys die off, just like historical miniature wargaming and for the exact same reasons.

Hummm... That didn't go well. Definitely a misunderstanding of John's comment, from what I saw. I think John was saying the license should carry a certain amount of respect and sense of accomplishment rather than entitlement. But, he also said he was more than willing to help noobies.

I think the way to draw new hams is outreach. Not nerdy geekfest, radio for radio's sake, but radio as a facilitator of activities such as SkyWarn/SkyWatch for weather. Things you can do with radio and not just radio. That's why my nets were always a discussion of preparedness topic and not just a check in.

 

[noway2]

Hummm... That didn't go well. Definitely a misunderstanding of John's comment, from what I saw. I think John was saying the license should carry a certain amount of respect and sense of accomplishment rather than entitlement. But, he also said he was more than willing to help noobies.

The current technician class license isn't hard to obtain, but it DOES require rote memorization and regurgitation of crap that nobody is going to retain much past putting their pencil down. It was also oriented towards the "techie" who would approach radio from a technical perspective and not some of the more social aspects, hence it dropped the CW portion and added more electrical and technical stuff like the segrments on repeaters.

Perhaps looking at it from the perspective of it being a dumbed down license is going about it wrong. Instead of dumbing it diwn it needs to be just different reflecting that there are people who aren't necessarily interested in the technical aspects as much. So instead of demanding that they memorize a bunch of numbers or equations that they have no real understanding of alter the focus so that they learn things that will help them be good productive hams and contribute to the field. On that note, I find the technician test is still awfully focused on HF, an area that newbies, especially less technical ones and those not ready to spend hundreds or thousands of dollars on equipment won't need or care about.

I think the way to draw new hams is outreach. Not nerdy geekfest, radio for radio's sake, but radio as a facilitator of activities such as SkyWarn/SkyWatch for weather. Things you can do with radio and not just radio. That's why my nets were always a discussion of preparedness topic and not just a check in.

Your right, very good point. I was asked to serve as chairman for the public outreach/ publicity committee for the High Point ARC. The first thought I had was that we need to bring an awareness by getting involved in events in the community and do exactly this: demonstrate what you can DO with radio, not just for the sake of radio.

 

[FreedomRider]

The licence test is something of a barrier to people who are interested in trying HAM radio but not necessarily wanting to sink a bunch of time into trying it out.

CB, MURS, FRS, etc.

 

[htperry]

I see this to be an issue of "incentive to membership". We need continued membership to maintain our ranks and political standing; preservation of the hobby. Our regulatory protections and preferences come from hobby population numbers and services to the country recognized by our leaders. We've enjoyed these regulatory preferences for generations and would be hard pressed to re-establish if lost due to a lack of interest.

Times have changed. There is less incentive and interest in personal communications with the advent of the Internet/smartphone. There simply isn't a mystique to wireless communications that draws the curious, technically minded into radio. No one needs ham radio to talk around the world in the 21st century. That lack of incentive is our burden to overcome. It seems to have become an discussion of "chicken or egg".

If we want others to experience the enjoyment of ham radio, people need a "taste" to seed their interest. I think this is the reason for discussion of either a new class or changes to Tech, to seed interest. I look at it like samples at the Costco. You are given samples to seed your taste buds for something you might not otherwise have had any interest. We need to recruit, not just wait for interested parties to show up. They aren't showing up.

Personally, I think we need a sponsorship program. Hams that are willing to recruit, mentor and take responsibility for prospective new members could get their mentees a sponsored "permit" of limited duration. This is the "taste" that incentivizes BOTH the mentee and mentor to follow through with a permanent license.

We can berate non-hams as shiftless or covent our exclusiveness to our own detriment. My interest is in showing off the practicality of ham radio, relevance in the 21st century and to share the enjoyment of the original social media. Ham radio is a broad hobby with many aspects that can appeal to even smartphone millennials, but not if we can't reach their interest at a level that incentivizes the effort they are being ask to expend. Looking from the outside, there's simply not much reason to make the effort to be a licensed ham radio operator. Ham radio needs to modernize and be more forceful in its relevance.

I see the ARRL as having opened the "no-coders" can of worms all over. It's good there are forward thinkers at the ARRL and FCC interested in growing ham radio, not waiting until it's on life support. The "how" of incentivizing membership in the 21st century is above my pay grade.

I think ham radio is enough of a big tent that fudds and noobs can enjoy it at their desired level without having to tolerate each other. The tent corners are far apart and the ham buffet large enough to stay in their own corners of the tent until ready to mingle. I would not give noobs privileges in bands dominated by constipated fudds.

I'm old enough that ham radio will outlive me. I don't have kids or anyone else that I really care if they get a ham radio license. My effort toward this endeavor is to the extent of typing a forum post about it. Crap! What a ramble.

 

[htperry]

I'd suggest that folks not paint with too broad a brush.

I understand what you are saying here. There are some that seem to have a feeling of obligation to get a ham license or even want, but feel some barrier and spend a lot of time "shit talking ham radio" while wanting someone to reach out to them. I just ignore and move on. I help those that want help without lashing out.

I consider myself very open to new hams, and go out of my way to help technically or in any way I can.

You strike me as a helpful ham operator. Your may have struck some in an unintended way. I respect where you are coming from and may feel the same way on some points, but see a need for change for the greater good. Times are a changin', John.

That's a great strategy for precisely nothing, and demeans the achievements of those who worked for the accomplishment.

The changes may can be interpreted as watering down others personal achievements, but I see the changes as a sideways move. The same achievements argument was made when CW was removed as a license requirement. You will never lose your achievements and may can mentor others into those prideful skills. Damn no-coders!

What will we call the new class of licensee that didn't have to memorize answers to questions they didn't understand in the first place?

EDIT: The learning begins when you have a permit to drive. Once you have some form of amateur radio license, hams can talk to you over the air and you will learn a lot. You learn by doing. Get on the air!


[IMG2=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","src":"https:\/\/s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com\/736x\/9d\/fe\/f9\/9dfef99002e3c24a7891c2da544a0e51.jpg"}[/IMG2]

 

[JohnFreeman]

Just uploaded to LOTW 2 days ago... there's much low band dx afoot!

More later... tgif brothers!

 

[NCLivingBrit]

Hummm... That didn't go well. Definitely a misunderstanding of John's comment, from what I saw.

No he was being dismissive and insulting. Cry me a river is not an offer of help. But keep up the boys club mentality. I'll be glad of the extra bandwidth for wireless devices.

 

[noway2]

No he was being dismissive and insulting. Cry me a river is not an offer of help. But keep up the boys club mentality. I'll be glad of the extra bandwidth for wireless devices.

Its really too bad that you had that experience with that guy who is an obvious a-hole. I'll admit that it would likely turn me off to the whole experience too, and I am thankful that most of the folks I've rncountered have been welcoming. Still I have encountered that sort too. If you decide you would like to give it s second try, I am sure that we, here, can get you started off on a better foot.

Still, I'm sorry to see that it's apparently left you bitter enough to wish I'll upon the ham radio community because of the actions of a few tools.

 

[Lawless]

No he was being dismissive and insulting.

Bowen, I assure you he was not. The issue seems to be that many desire to use the amateur bands without any work or responsibility involved. Many amateurs came from CB and see what it has become with no rules or etiquette. I for one do not want Ham to become CB. I did the time to be licensed and I am proud of that. Most amateurs are very helpful to people who show the desire to put in the work and learn. I am not for a test free license, but I am open to the idea of a "learner's permit" sponsored by a licensed Ham. Perhaps a very limited portion of a band or like some suggested a higher power GMRS or CB with an application and promissory statement.

I get tired as well of the folks who moan about it being too hard (not speaking of you directly) when it is in fact fairly easy. By simply saying it is too hard to get licensed, it is those folks who are being dismissive. There is MUCH to learn in radio and allowing people access to these bands with zero effort or learning is just a bridge too far for me.

We have made every effort here in this forum (and on CSC before this) to get people licensed and give them any help they need. We all here WANT more licensed operators and more people in the hobby. I was discussing with Howard recently that since I first posed my questions on the old site's survival section and eventually got my license that the comms talk and subsequent many people getting licensed has been awesome. This is why we talk about it here so much, to spark interest and involve more people.

It requires a desire to do it though, and a willingness to go through with the small amount of effort to get your ticket.

 

[JohnFreeman]

No he was being dismissive and insulting. Cry me a river is not an offer of help. But keep up the boys club mentality. I'll be glad of the extra bandwidth for wireless devices.

No "he" wasn't. The offer of help is mentioned many times in my post (and in my behaviors)... I'd suggest you filtered selectively. My cry me a river statement is directed to the "I demand what you have but I don't want to expend any effort to get it" mentality. If that's what people want, there are several radio services already allocated to just that purpose.

I've been in this hobby long enough to see several iterations of "if we just make it easier to get a license, we'll have tons of newcomers". It's not produced any long term growth in the hobby. Howard's vision of linking radio to other activities (S&R, etc) is a good one, and has produced meaningful results. There are surely other initiatives that can sustain the allocation.

The simple fact is, it's never been easier to get a license than today.

There are a lot of people willing to help anyone and everyone get a ticket.

A few hours of trying will result in a license .

Try it! You'll learn something and people ( like me ) will help.

John

 

[NCLivingBrit]

Still, I'm sorry to see that it's apparently left you bitter enough to wish I'll upon the ham radio community because of the actions of a few tools.

I don't wish you ill, I've just seen this play out before.

Back in the 80s there was a huge historical wargaming community, tons of companies, many conventions etc. The userbase often was very dismissive of newcomers who didn't have an encyclopedic knowledge of the battles, didn't have absolutely top shelf minis, wanted to try simpler less technical rules systems and time periods and things not currently popular. Well take a gander at it now.

There's a massively diminished community, mostly older folks and much older folks. The new tech made smaller companies able to release products, but the brick and mortar stores to sell them and where you played died or changed inventory to newer systems, especially the welcoming (but expensive) Games Workshop products. The historical stuff is a niche populated mostly by older guys who've been playing forever and a very occasional young apprentice, a lot of whom quit after they get tired of eating s*** for not knowing everything. New people and young people moved on to Warhammer, Infiniti etc. and more recently the collectible minis games. The space at conventions for historical wargaming went from entire conventions to a couple of tables in the back with the same three our four older guys pushing tin around, until they too stopped attending, often because they had passed on. Then that space went to something else because historical minis was not popular or relevant enough to justify saving space for it.

I've given away four or five large storage bins (hundreds of dollars worth) of historical minis stuff in my last pre-move purge because U've been hauling it around since the divorce and there really isn't anyone to play with anymore. No active local groups, no game stores hosting historicals (the last one near where I was living went out of business even after it "pandered" to the new userbase, because it was too little, too late), it had become nothing more than a collecting game because most of the guys I did historicals with in the US died or have too many health issues to play/paint anymore. Literally died. All those bins went to one guy, because he is the last guy I know still into it and still holds hope of finding a game or two.

I honestly see the exact same attitudes and arguments right here in this thread. I wish you no ill, but I will not be surprised to see the bandwidth auctions come when there aren't enough HAMs to matter politically and the government goes in search of more quick cash in a market greedy as hell for more bandwidth and willing to pay hundreds of millions of dollars for it.

Now, I am going to leave y'all to it, I shan't be back in this discussion.

 

[Lawless]

We don't need more ops, we need better ops.

What we need is actually for all of you people who refer to other hams as LIDS and such to STFU and take your elitist bull$%^& to your little yes men round table meeting circle jerks. All of your assertion that those who use repeaters are not hams, or that those who don't code are not hams, or those who are not on 60M are not hams is the type of $%^& that keeps people thinking like Bowen above does. You are part of the problem.

I have zero interest in code. Some have zero interest in HF. Some love digital. This is what hobby means, doing it because you like it. Not doing what someone else says that they should do or bloviating that they are not "real".

We have tried to build an area here that encourages people to step off into the hobby. Not discourage them like you seem to do at every turn. Head on back to CSC and GTFO.

 

[WK4R]

No matter where you go or what you do there will always be those people who will make you "FEEL BAD" for lack of a better term. Now you can suck it up or you can be a snowflake! As everyone else I have encountered them my entire life whether it be work or hobbies. I have learned to deal with them in my own way and not let them make my life miserable or take my toys and go home.

In this forum I do not know whose feelings was hurt or why and did not read that far back. However, I think a lot of us are in agreement in that many amateurs probably came from CB. It is not difficult to see what CB has become with no rules or etiquette or have they created their own?

As Lawless stated I for one do not want Ham to become CB. I did the time to be licensed and I am proud of that. I have been a ham for 39 or 40 years now. I have not hid my callsign on the forum. Most amateurs I know are very helpful to people who show the desire to put in the work and learn. "BUT" You cannot create that desire to do so. They have to want it.

I am not for a test free license as stated earlier!! Maybe some alterations can be made for GMRS, FRS or CB but CB is out of control and will always be that way. Don't see how Ham radio can go any lower on the testing procedure. Yes I am aware of the DYING of ham radio nayslayers. Maybe it is? I have not checked the statistics. Facts people Give me facts!

I get tired as well of the folks who complain about it being difficult to get a ham radio licence. It is fairly easy with a little study. The part that gets me is they get their licence and just want to talk and never expand their horizons. I understand that is their perogative. However, it does make me wonder why bother if you don't own a soldering iron or have never tried to build anything. Doubtful that most hams can set the SWR on their antennas! However, time marches on and they try to be as helpful as they can in their own way. Well most anyway.

The other thing that pushes my buttons is false information. If you have not TRIED it or DONE it then how do you know. Copying and pasting something on the forum to make you look smart makes you look dumb. Yes most people can tell!

I appreciate the fact that most if not all try to spark interest and involve more people. Somethings in ham radio can be done very cheaply "IF" you know the right people and/or do a little research.

BUT as "Lawless stated" It requires a desire to do it though, and a willingness to go through with the small amount of effort to get your ticket.

Yes we do need better operators and we need better Elmers. Unfortunately some can be in the hobby for a couple of months and they THINK they know everything. Maybe they did do electronics all their life so they can make such a claim but RARE. I have seen guys who have been in the hobby as long as I have who can't even solder on a PL-259 or calculate a dipole. I'm not saying you have to be a technical genius. Just know a few basics. Learning really does not hurt that bad!

I've only called one person a LID in my ham radio lifetime and I told him to his face. So no great secret there.

Yes we have varying interests that is what keeps the hobby going and I've tried about all of them. Yes I've seen most of the wars. I've even been in the middle of a few. There never was a winner. So what is the bottom line here?

We try to get more people into the hobby. Those of us who can be an elmer should attempt to give sound advice. If we are wrong then someone should call us on it! If you give advice I want to know if you have actually done it or you "HEARD" about it. If you don't know then don't guess!

Flame suit on!

For someones sake! This is a forum! LOL Get a grip!

 

[Lawless]

 

[JohnFreeman]

HW100's rock ^