New Sig metal P365!?!
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pfft, why not? Sig's marketing to the guys with a pocket full of surplus income is masterful. They constantly push out new things. Sig is winning right now. I think many of us feel the P365, even with its mushy trigger, is the best CC. They could not do a Legion in plastic right? That would be a tad gauche. Imagine all the Instagram EDC pocket dumps we will see. Show off your watch, blade, and now a Legion P365 in a Tier 1 concealment holster on the hood of the Escalade. Again, Sig is winning, and good for them. Moving to the States was uber uber-smart move for them.
That is really hitting the nail on the head.
I have to say, I am not a Sig guy at all, but some of these P365 variants are downright snazzy. This thing ticks so many boxes. It basically ticks all of them. I don't need or want one but oddly...I still want one. Won't buy one, but it's a coup if Sig can make me want something. And they bought an optics factory so they can rake it in with that, too.
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Okay, I'll bite. A number of people here think highly of the 365. Ignernt wretch that I am, I must naively ask what it is about them that separates them from the pack. I'm asking honestly, so I'd appreciate honest answers. (Though I know the usual suspects will have to do their thing.)😀
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Is this the new trend now? Take a polymer pistol you already make and create a metal on metal version?
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At what point does the 365 become a service pistol? Barrel is longer, grip is longer, mag capacity is on par, now frame weight is increased.
Is this becoming a new segment of duty pistols?
Is this becoming a new segment of duty pistols?
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At least the frags will show up better on your xrays now....
I'm def not a Sig Fanboi. I bought my current P365XL just cause it was there, I had the cash in pawket and it seemed to fit my hand ok at a weight point and footprint I liked with good capacity options.
It shoots every time I pull the trigger and doesn't when I don't. 😁💩
It hits where I aim it when I pull the trigger and ejects the case to who-knows-where..
Nary a hiccup. Feeds whatever I put innit and easy to carry.
After the Wilson grip module it fits muh hand just about perfect as a comfy-carry size pistol can.
So it's really come down to that when I do look at other pistols possibly for this role my question is "What might this one do better?"
And no matter how bitchin cool I think others have been I can't talk myself into it cause there ain't nothin wrong with what I got.
Spend that extra cash on mo' ammo for practice.. 🤠 👍
I think its more that they were the first to the market with the micro-compacts, and everything else trails behind. Some people really enjoy the modularity, and they're ticking the boxes with their variants:
- Want the smallest variant possible? Regular P365
- Like a longer barrel and extra capacity, but don't like a grip/magwell that prints too much? P365 XL
- Don't care about barrel length but like the bigger grip? P365X
- Want something with full-sized features but is just slimmer in every direction? P365X Macro
There's something for everyone with parts galore and tons of aftermarket support.
Well S&W did it so SIG feels like they need to follow.
Wonder if it's Made In India MIM?
Okay, I’m not a Sig fan. Without getting into details, I’m somewhat of the opposite BUT: I do carry a 365 so I can tell you what separates them from the pack in my opinion is size. I like a small carry because I find that i actually carry reliably when it just disappears and I can climb/crawl/cartwheel and not be worrying about it. I had a p238 before, capacity was less and it’s .380 not 9. I’m not here to claim there aren’t 365 alternatives on the market but they are few. I’d count the hellcat and some might argue G43x. I prefer the 365 trigger to the hellcat and the grip to the 43x so that’s what set it apart for me.
They don't randomly explode like the 320's always do.
But seriously, it's because it's hi capacity and tiny. And it shoots great. Shoots almost like a full size gun.
But yeah now they are higher capacity, weigh more, are big, and shoot just precisely like a full size gun. Lolz.
LOTS of options with them it seems.
maple_penguin
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I absolutely love my Shield Plus Ported PC version. I thought I'd never own an M&P line gun cause of that terrible hinged trigger but they swapped it out for a nice crisp flat trigger and it's one of, if not THE, best striker fired trigger I've felt. I've tried Glock, Glock Apex, P320, P320 w/apex trigger bar, and a couple others I'm forgetting. Nice and small, 15/13 rounds if you get the MagGuts kits (https://magguts.com/product-category/smith-wesson/shield-plus/), great trigger, I actually feel the barrel ports working, good grip texture without being too aggressive for a carry gun. I used to carry my Gen4 19 but that little shield plus really impressed me.
Regarding the magguts, they're a bit pricy to get for every mag but for my carry mags? Absolutely I'll toss $30 to squeeze +2 or +3 into the same sized package. I've shot those mags a good bit, I'd say 300-500 rounds or so, no issues.
Now I have shot a couple P365s thanks to my buddy who has the standard and xl models. They're definitely nice but I felt like the xl bordering that slimmer compact-fullsize range.
The $1300 price tag on the metal P365 makes it an instant no for me. 17rnds is interesting but it's competing in a different bracket now.
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maple_penguin
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It's not super expensive either. $570 from Familyfirearms. They have a 3.3" barrel version with no optics ready option OR a 4" version that you can get optics ready.
I have the Macro and it is a tac driver with and wonderful trigger for a small Concealed Carry firearm. It has become my standard carry and a joy to shoot at the range. I would expect this Legion to be an improvement further still.
I can’t say the 365 is a bad gun. What I can say is that I have guns that are a joy to shoot, and I have guns that are miserable to shoot but that I have an odd affection for (ie my hi-point, aka my “he ain’t fat, he’s my brother!” gun). Shooting the sig I felt nothing. It was always a meh experience so I sold it. Probably not the greatest reasoning in the world, but it was enough for me to part with it.
When I had mine I kind of wanted one of the aftermarket aluminum frames for it, but then I questioned spending an extra $300 on a gun that had never even come close to giving me the slightest ammount of chubb.
When I had mine I kind of wanted one of the aftermarket aluminum frames for it, but then I questioned spending an extra $300 on a gun that had never even come close to giving me the slightest ammount of chubb.
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I personally see no need for a large, metal framed P365, but am very happy with the plastic one I got in July. After trying a few different options, I added the manual safety and the X/XL grip. I also got a couple of Magguts +2 kits, so with a very minimal increase in length I'm carrying 14 +1 along with whatever spare mag I carry. I wish I hadn't wasted a bunch of time and money on Glock 43 and 43X pistols and accessories.
The P365 was designed around the magazine. Sig designed the double stack magazine first, then designed the gun around it
vs.
Designing the gun first, THEN designing a magazine to fit/work correctly.
The modularity of the P365 is a design gamechanger too.
vs.
Designing the gun first, THEN designing a magazine to fit/work correctly.
The modularity of the P365 is a design gamechanger too.
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Is this the thread where you visit to post, "I'm not a Sig Fan-Boi", after drooling over an inexpensive metal version of your EDC?
This seems like making a 45 ounce Glock 19. Why? The only good reason I guess is cash. High margins and cash. Not a bad reason. If people will shell out for it, have it. I own guns that don’t make much logical sense so why not another?
It's not that bad since an Icarus Precision AL 365 frame is roughly $400. Don't dig the integral compensator.
I got mine up for sale only because I absolutely hate Sig Sauer since the Cohen takeover made it "To Hell and Back" into "The Franklin Mint: Small Arms Division". I think it's a fantastic pistol in spite of that.
It's popular because it's a reliable pistol that is completely modular and has the most popular micro RDS footprint standard. Even today the only real issues are dovetails may be cut large, out of spec takedown levers which both are easily visible in pre-purchase inspection, and trigger return spring can break which is common enough in most autoloaders. The magazines are expensive and should use a parkerized/stainless finish instead of bluing, but renaissance wax is an excellent solution to prevent corrosion. Early P365s had striker breakage and rear retaining plate breakage which was fixed in late 66A prefix P365s. The sear spring can be a PITA to seat correctly on the safety lever pin if you are doing a detail strip, but even then it becomes easy enough with practice.
All in all, a great pistol made by a terrible company.
I got mine up for sale only because I absolutely hate Sig Sauer since the Cohen takeover made it "To Hell and Back" into "The Franklin Mint: Small Arms Division". I think it's a fantastic pistol in spite of that.
It's popular because it's a reliable pistol that is completely modular and has the most popular micro RDS footprint standard. Even today the only real issues are dovetails may be cut large, out of spec takedown levers which both are easily visible in pre-purchase inspection, and trigger return spring can break which is common enough in most autoloaders. The magazines are expensive and should use a parkerized/stainless finish instead of bluing, but renaissance wax is an excellent solution to prevent corrosion. Early P365s had striker breakage and rear retaining plate breakage which was fixed in late 66A prefix P365s. The sear spring can be a PITA to seat correctly on the safety lever pin if you are doing a detail strip, but even then it becomes easy enough with practice.
All in all, a great pistol made by a terrible company.
For me, at least, it combined capacity/caliber/reliability into a package small enough to fit into my pocket. If I am pocket carrying, nothing else goes in that pocket so it beats out any other "pocket carry" for me. And, it is large enough to shoot like a fuller sized gun and not a pocket rocket.
hmm, can a terrible company make a great pistol? I guess it is how you define it. I think most of their guns are considered excellent. Some people may disagree with that statement when it comes to the P320.
Sig has always been the expensive option. They dabbled with the plebians with the P320. I think from a brand perspective being known as the higher-end option is a good place to be.
D
hmm, can a terrible company make a great pistol? I guess it is how you define it. I think most of their guns are considered excellent. Some people may disagree with that statement when it comes to the P320.
Sig has always been the expensive option. They dabbled with the plebians with the P320. I think from a brand perspective being known as the higher-end option is a good place to be.
You need context for why I say that.
SIG Swiss has always made extremely high quality gear. The merger with Sauer for export purposes saw that same level of QC transfer over. The XM9 Trials clearly showed the P226 was an absolute quality pistol and that it along with the 92F were both winners when it came down only to financial bidding that pushed Beretta over. When Sig Sauer updated the P22X line from stamped steel to a milled steel slide, they became even more durable, along with that legendary QC.
When Cohen came into the picture, the nearly autistic-detail to QC and weaponry got tossed out the window. You got terrible designs like Umarex-made Mosquitos, the P250, and cheapening of the line. When you are dropping $1K for a P22X, and the Swiss/German/American company starts subcontracting out small parts to Israel and especially India, we call that a clue. You saw amazing QC drop down to QC levels depending on if it was commercial or LE sales whereas nearly every other handgun company's LE line has the same QC as the commercial line. Even on the institutional side, major QC issues started showing up in LE SKUs that were previously unheard of from Sig Sauer. Then instead of improving QC, they started that 50 different SKUs BS with different finishes (which nicely hides poor machining) with some QC lines still being good as in the MK25, but even they started monkeying around with that. A perfect example is the SP2022 which retained high QC because it was made to fill French contracts which prevented shady shenanigans. The XM17 Program never got Phase 2 testing that would have show deficiencies in the P320 and its pure coincidence Sig made a ridiculous low bid and was awarded the XM17 contract on the last day of the Ob*ma Presidency without Phase 2 testing.
It's why in spite of the P365 being a really good pistol that stands up even in institutional use, I have a moral dilemma having a Sig Sauer. Their corporate policies sickitate me on a personal level and when Glock/S&W/H&K offer quality gear without outsourcing to countries where open defecation is normal, I don't see the point of supporting them. I love the P229, the P365, and the SP2022... but the juice isn't worth the squeeze.
YMMV and this post may cause cancer according to the state of Kalifornistan.
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Bottom line for me is the trigger
Without an excellent trigger, the 365 is just another plastic pistol. Sig sucks, by the way.
Without an excellent trigger, the 365 is just another plastic pistol. Sig sucks, by the way.
OP
Um…whole point of the thread is that it isn’t a plastic pistol….
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He just can’t resist the temptation to meddle. 😂
Triggers are pretty dang good for a tiny striker gun, lol.
Compare it to a J frame instead of a Wilson Combat and it starts to seem good enough for a tiny carry gun.
Compare it to a J frame instead of a Wilson Combat and it starts to seem good enough for a tiny carry gun.
I first shot a Sig 365 at Battery Oaks that someone was nice enough to pass around. It was the SAS model and I thought that the flat top slide was an incredible concept. The next surprise was how good the pistol felt in my hand being as small as it was , and last of all the trigger was better than any other striker I had tried. I loved it.
Shortly after , I purchased one from a forum member. Sadly , I discovered that my old eye/brain connection could not make the adjustment to no front post. So I sold it and got a regular P365. Carry it everyday. Disappears into any pocket and has been completely reliable. Carry an extra mag makes 20+ rounds. Pretty much checks all my boxes.
Shortly after , I purchased one from a forum member. Sadly , I discovered that my old eye/brain connection could not make the adjustment to no front post. So I sold it and got a regular P365. Carry it everyday. Disappears into any pocket and has been completely reliable. Carry an extra mag makes 20+ rounds. Pretty much checks all my boxes.
SIG Sauer makes fine pistols and I've own quite a few P226 in 9mm,40 S&W and P220 in 45 acp.Also had a P365.I thought I had bought a gun that I thought was really special. When my squad at the PD went to qualify with our P226 9mm we had 20 officers on the line. 18 qualified with very good scores. Mid 90's.4 of those were 100%.I was shocked when they called for officers that wanted to qualify with back up/ off duty personal guns. 16 out of 20 were carrying some variant of the P365 , the other 4 shot compact Glocks...12 P365 shooters shot 100% the other 4 shot 90% to 96%.That made a Sig believer out of me. One of the Glock shooters approached me and wanted to buy my gun. I said at the price is right yes That night I went home with $700 in my pocket instead of a P365.. even though I was one of the 100% shooters I prefer a revolver for off duty carry.
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I would love a metal XL frame that is not $400.
Carlos Danger
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The P365 series is easily one of the most over-rated pistols on the market right now, IMO. But it sells well, and to Sig that's all that matters. Sig will keep churning at as many variations as they can think of as long as the fanboys keep buying them and they keep making money.
OP
aside from size, weight, capacity, ergonomics and modularity it has nothing going for it!
Carlos Danger
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I own three P365 variants and think they have plenty going for them. I also think they are really nothing special.
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I have the basic P365 and the XL version. I shoot them both in IDPA. I thought I would like the XL better, but I am learning that the grip on the basic model works for me. If I can grip the gun, so that all my fingers are scrunched up under the trigger guard, I can get my pinky on the grip. For me, this make a very stable platform to shoot with. Follow up shots are not just quick, but accurate.