I noticed the WP tube was out of focus, too -- and I figured that was all it was. And, of course, one must take YT vids with a grain of salt -- which is why I wanted to post the video and discuss it with someone who actually owned both NV and thermal. However, you sort of moved the goalposts on the discussion from "seeing where you are going in the dark" (per your remark in post #31, to which I initially responded) ... to "running around in the woods" (per your question in post #33).Believe you’ll find that the way things look in a YouTube video and how they look in reality are sometimes different. That video above is, in my opinion, not representative because the WP tube doesn’t appear to be in focus in the first part of the video. Either that or it is a terrible tube. My little Echo spec tube blows that thing away in terms of clarity and it is far from top of the line.
When people put thermal scopes on a dovetail and use them on a helmet, the primary usage is a hands free scanner. Not for moving running around in the woods.
I believe if your plan is to get a really high end thermal and use it for navigation I think you will be disappointed.
I point this out because I think we can both agree that when it comes to any form of digital processing that allows us to see at night, the processing delay involved in today's technologies means there's an ocean of difference between a casual walk where you simply wants to "[see] where you are going in the dark" ... versus "running around in the woods". Something usable for scanning ... is also likely reasonably usable for a casual walk and "seeing where you are going in the dark" ... but probably not terribly usable for any sort of running in the dark; I would fully expect blurry images while running from anything digitally processed. This is why your changing of the position of the goalposts seems pretty relevant ... and why I am pointing it out. (I'm not trying to be a d-bag or anything.)
As for me getting thermal -- I'm most likely going to settle for the $600ish dollar hand-held FLIR TK Scout, as my thermal needs are largely limited to game retrieval after last light in the late season of white tail hunting season. The device would make blood trail tracking easier ... as well as spotting a downed deer easier in scenarios where I might miss one in the dark while tracking, as I almost did, this year after dropping the biggest 10 pointer of my life in December. It might even allow for the spotting of deer bedded down in cut-outs I hunt prior to taking a shot while it's still daylight -- which would be useful, too, as it would give me some idea of which portions of the cut-outs to keep an eye on.
I've not done any solid research on the device, its range, etc., yet. That said, I have many months before the upcoming hunting season in which to contemplate it. I am quite open to options -- but I know I do NOT want anything gun or helmet mounted -- so it needs to be small and ideally light, since size and weight count when I've got to trek to and from a sit.
100% correct on NFA items tempering one into becoming accustomed to waiting -- and on the back/forth being beneficial. I've had the benefit of being able to look through green phosphor (monocular) tubes. I've also had input from a former operator who used both who said if I can afford WP, he felt it was worth the extra money for the contrast improvement and reduced eye strain.l
Yeah buddy, I know exactly how you feel. Man do I ever.
Luckily the long wait times for NFA items have sorta tempered me to wait for NV.
This is a huge purchase and decisions won’t be made without a lot of consideration. Sometimes it is helpful to have some back and forth on this topic because it helps think critically about the YouTube sale pitches. Or the complete lack of sales pitches. The JRH site looks like it was built in 1997. All the data is a giant wall of text. But he doesn’t really define the terms. You’ve got to search the web to figure out what FOM, halo, and all sorts of other metrics means.
I watched at least 50 videos and read all the relevant threads on Arfcom about NV and thermal. But it didn’t click until someone handed me a PVS-14. The internet said you would be okay without a counterweight on your helmet for a single tube. The second I had it in my hand I knew that wasn’t true. The issue with my glasses didn’t come up until I actually mounted the thing on my head. Thus I very grudgingly bought the G22 mount.
It is a shame more companies don’t have demo sessions. You’ve got to track someone down that owns this stuff to really understand it. For example, you can look at pics all day regarding WP vs GP. But despite being absolutely sure I had to have WP...the first time I looked through a green tube I knew I’d be happy with either one. It also showed me that duals are simply better than a monocle.
If we are going to spend as much on this crap as a good used car (and I already have) might as well hash it all out now.
While I've not been able to look through googles, it is my understanding (from reading and inputs from operator friend) they are absolutely better in some ways than monaculars: they avoid the tension headache associated with the unaided eye's pupil being constricted while the aided eye's pupil is dilated ... as well as the dizziness some people experience; usage time is basically limited only by battery life; and one can drive with them with a bit of practice -- not quickly, mind you. (With vehicle-mounted IR floods, I'm told this is even better/easier.)
However, because both eyes are aided, one loses one's night adapted peripheral vision and situation awareness. Also, one's lugging a lot of weight up there ... and that's weight that ultimately has to be carried and moved by the neck. So, monocular do have a few benefits. I started out wanting to stay under 3k for a single tube and found I could get very high quality green phosphor tubes for ~2.6k ... but if I spent "just a little more", I could step up to white phosphor ... and then if I spent "just a little more" I could step up to unfilmed white phosphor. Needless to say, "just a little more" adds up fast, when you do it over and over ... to the tune of that 3k budget moving to 4k quickly.
I am not willing to move the budget any higher; another 1-2k is simply out of reach. But if I could find decent dual tube goggles around 4-4.5k, I'd give that a hard, hard look and think about "just a little bit more" perhaps one more time. I have yet to see that, though -- from a vendor I trust.
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