OnPoint opening a new range in N. Raleigh in Spring of 2020
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I never thought of that, thank you. I learn something every day on here.
Mad Dawg
Bourbon Swigler
Or if you want to pick up a few day laborers at the temp agency next to Raleigh Rescue Mission or at the McD's/Exxon gas station on the corner.
Mad Dawg
Bourbon Swigler
I live about 10 mins from OnPoint's proposed location and I have no interest in another indoor range or indoor ranges in general. I can thank the shooting conditions and staff at an indoor range off of Old Wake Forest Rd (name withheld so not to call them out). Until I became a member of a local private gun club, I would make the trek up to Frontline Defense to get my fix for sending lead down range. This was during Frontline's infancy well before their 1000 yard range opened up. It's nice having nearly 24/7 access to my club where I have the space to shoot comfortably and in safety.
They have a Facebook page. I sent them a message asking several questions about reloads, brass pickup, membership rates, etc. I will post their answers when/if I get a response.
Don't know if it is the same one you are referring to, but I will say that Eagle One range had very poor ventilation and was very cramped. My wife and I shot there a few times and basically swore off shooting at indoor ranges as a result. But when TSA opened, we tried it out and became paid members immediately. Yes, the noise is a little more than an outdoor range, and I still like shooting outdoors when the weather is ok, but TSA is 15 minutes vs 1 Hour for Frontline, and the wife likes the indoor plumbing.
Ventilation at an indoor range is key, and TSA has a state-0f-the-art air handling system (if they would just buy the good filters instead of the cheap ones). I suspect OnPoint will have a good system as well, but we will see.
Got a reply from them. They referred me to their FAQs page.
https://www.aimonpoint.com/faq
They don’t have family memberships (but see what they say about guests). The killer for me is that they do not allow reloads. I know that some would say to just load the same headstamps and use the factory ammo boxes, but that just isn’t me. Pity, it looks like it is going to be a great facility.
https://www.aimonpoint.com/faq
They don’t have family memberships (but see what they say about guests). The killer for me is that they do not allow reloads. I know that some would say to just load the same headstamps and use the factory ammo boxes, but that just isn’t me. Pity, it looks like it is going to be a great facility.
Where do you shoot at now?
Wow, no .50AE allowed?
They don't allow reloads because of insurance but do allow drawing from the holster.
They allow rapid fire with some fudd's permission.
Hard pass, I think I'll stick with Woody's and DPRC.
I only shot at TSA a handful of times, but I distinctly remember them having everyone step back from the firing line about every 20-30 minutes and stand behind a yellow line for about 5 minutes. Of course, during this time, the RSOs would go booth to booth and inspect each firearm by groping it like it was their prom date. TSA is better than PDHSC but that's not exactly a hard thing to achieve.
OP
I'm a member at TSA, never has any RSO inspect any of my guns when I was there, or see them do that and I go twice a week. They did have a no reload ammo policy but they reversed that decision before the range opened. I see they also allow draw from holster for those who took TSA classes and are approved in advance. TSA also has great target system, just like shooting at the FBI or NRA range. I'm also a member at Frontline Defense.
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Oh yeah, no doubt on the target system, the ability to have them turn in random intervals is awesome.
OP
Here is membership info, they are having a promotion right now. $60 a month. https://www.aimonpoint.com/membership
When TSA is busy, sometimes the air filtration system get overwhelmed and they have to call cold range until it catches up. (I’ve heard they buy cheap filters that makes this problem worse). They check the guns only to make sure they are safe.
Wow....what a terrible business model. 1st off bad location. It will be the most expensive range in NC, maybe in the US. No reloads are allow.
Want to see a good business model:
Want to see a good business model:
Those fees are about the same as TSA, even Senior Days are the same price and day as TSA. And maybe they are thinking that now that the Wake County range is closed on weeknights, the market will support it.
I tell you guys what.
All the critics should go open up the BEST indoor range EVER. Or support our 2ndA business entrepreneur's the best you can, to include keeping your ill-informed point of views quite.
IT takes ALOT of effort, money and hope to get something like this done. I see alot of nit-picking because it does not 100% fit how YOU would USE the place. And of the nit-picking people most of you do not live NEAR this location. So why even complain?
If we do not support 2ndA businesses then people will invest in other types of businesses. And one day, "man I rember when we had 4 indoor ranges" What ever happened to the local gun store" I liked walking in and touching a product" It can all go away quickly.
All the critics should go open up the BEST indoor range EVER. Or support our 2ndA business entrepreneur's the best you can, to include keeping your ill-informed point of views quite.
IT takes ALOT of effort, money and hope to get something like this done. I see alot of nit-picking because it does not 100% fit how YOU would USE the place. And of the nit-picking people most of you do not live NEAR this location. So why even complain?
If we do not support 2ndA businesses then people will invest in other types of businesses. And one day, "man I rember when we had 4 indoor ranges" What ever happened to the local gun store" I liked walking in and touching a product" It can all go away quickly.
Wait, I was wrong. TSA is $20 per hour, where these guys are $20 for all day. That's an incredible bargain, and less than PDHSC in Garner or Frontline Defense in Warrenton.
I am a member at TSA and will continue supporting them. However, some of the benefits and perks have slowly dwindled there. When “Date Night” first started (something the wife and I took advantage of) they offered a discount at the cafe and 2 free targets. Non-members also got a discount for sharing a lane. Now, the cafe is no longer open at night, and they no longer give free targets. At one point they were giving preference to non-members even though they advertised the opposite. Still, it is an excellent facility and I will continue to go there, and I hope the competition from OnPoint will keep them on their toes and make them think more about satisfying the customers.
First off this is what a forum is for. Opinions, helping others, meeting people and so on. But let me make my case from one who has run a business for 36 years. When you plan to open a business you need to think about a few things. They may or may not have. They may or may not know the area. I was born in Raleigh and still live here. I know the area better than most, there are very few of us left....Raleigh natives. The range is going to be the most expensive range in Raleigh yet they chose a bad location for that. TSA chose correctly. TSA is where the money is. The money is not Capital and Spring Forest. Prefect example Crabtree Mall vs Triangle Mall. Triangle Mall file bankruptcy a few years ago. Triangle is the last place you want to open a high end store or restaurant. Another point, the shooting sport is a small group. You dont cut out a small group of a small group. You want to try and cater to all the shooting sports if you can. They have 25 yards range, so that cuts out most rifle shooting. So not offering any more than TSA. On Point will not allow reloads, another group they just cut out. TSA change that policy before they open because that got an ear full and listened. TSA located near RTP and RDU which mean they have all international business as well as corporate business when they want to shoot. The will not go to On Point ....no reason to. Now they may have contracts with LEs that I dont know about. As for supporting ranges, I am a member of 4 ranges and TSA is not one of them. I just use their business to compare how much better of a model it is. As for the ranges in Charlotte, they to are located where the money is. Both are owned by the same people. Both are half the price of On point. Not bashing just using business knowledge.
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The 20.00 all day are the ranges in Charlotte.
I stopped in Point Blank range in Charlotte as I stop in all ranges in my travels. I was very impressed by there set up and prices. I wont be a member because I dont live in Charlotte or travel there very often. But when I go there again I will bring my toys. I spoke with the ROs and was amazed how cheap it was for someone who is not a member but wanted to shoot. No registration fee, just ID and 20.00 and can shoot as long as I want. I would love for someone in Charlotte to tell us more about that range. Such as wait times, good things or even some things you dont like about the range. I am working with someone about getting a range like that in SC. My soon to be retirement place. I have done some research and paying for some research on openning a range.
Can you expand upon this? What ill-informed points are you referring to? The points I made were in reference to text copied right off their webpage.
I have no problem supporting local gunshops and gun ranges that have sensible policies, but I'm not a charity, so I'm not going to financially support ones that apparently didn't want my business in the first place.
I think his point is that it's fine to choose not to shoot there if it doesn't meet your needs or you have better options. It is less fine to badmouth it to others who may not have the same options or needs that you do.
I still remember the flogging TSA got when it's announcement thread was on the Canadian forum, but highlighting these issues resulted in changed (improved) policies at TSA.
I should of done a better job in my wording.
My point is that most of these rules posted are driven by insurance. To insure a indoor range is not easy and that my friend drives policy most of the time. Secondly not every re-loader knows what they are doing. If they have a squib at the range, who's responsibility is it? If the squib happens with factory ammo the ammo manufacture just flipped the bill if needed.
Liability, liability, liability
I want every person to do well in the 2ndA community from guns, gear, ammo , ranges and everything else. I can not stand to read when we attack our own and silo our spending based on personal views. The gun industry since Obama left office is so damn soft, we have lost 3 distributors worth over $500 million in business since 2018.
We need to support our own in every way we can.
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My opinion is that there are lots of folks that do not have access to private ranges or are not members of clubs or regulars to the point where they considering buying memberships, etc. They also aren't plugged into the shenanigans here or on other forums where folks have a much more specific idea of what they want in a range.
Of course we would all prefer they practice more, so that slice is important- so where do they go ?
The question is whether there are enough casual shooters to support the existing ranges at daily rates. ( to the extent that their $ keeps the doors open) I've often been to TSA ( I am not a member) when there are a gaggle of people signing up for range cards, new shooters, visitors, corporate groups, Birthday party, etc. Their marketing presence goes far beyond the membership core- and that is the challenge for any new indoor range in the area to match.
I believe that how well a range handles the promotion, marketing and catering to the casual mainstream shooter is equally important to the "gourmet". Things will shake out and part of 'Merica is letting businesses compete, so I wish them well.
By the way, if anyone asks, I am loading new brass and bullets, so they are not re-loads, its the first time these have ever been put together
Of course we would all prefer they practice more, so that slice is important- so where do they go ?
The question is whether there are enough casual shooters to support the existing ranges at daily rates. ( to the extent that their $ keeps the doors open) I've often been to TSA ( I am not a member) when there are a gaggle of people signing up for range cards, new shooters, visitors, corporate groups, Birthday party, etc. Their marketing presence goes far beyond the membership core- and that is the challenge for any new indoor range in the area to match.
I believe that how well a range handles the promotion, marketing and catering to the casual mainstream shooter is equally important to the "gourmet". Things will shake out and part of 'Merica is letting businesses compete, so I wish them well.
By the way, if anyone asks, I am loading new brass and bullets, so they are not re-loads, its the first time these have ever been put together
Yeah a lot of people on here quick to poopoo the rules of a range cos they don't like it, when they have no idea usually whats behind those rules & I think its pretty obvious INSURANCE is to blame. Insuring something like a gun range has to be obscenely expensive and they have to play by the rules (even tho they already said they're not gonna be checking your ammo so they already gave you the wink).
I think its overpriced (I think TSA is pretty overpriced too), but Raleigh real estate is hella expensive so not surprising.
I think its overpriced (I think TSA is pretty overpriced too), but Raleigh real estate is hella expensive so not surprising.
Look at it this way - When a new Sheetz moves into the neighborhood, they don’t open up with higher gas prices than their competition, they start a price war to get customers used to coming to their location. That strategy seems to work, I don’t ever remember a Sheetz going out of business. But what OnPoint is doing is starting out with higher prices and more restrictions than their nearby competition, which has already set the bar for a quality indoor range.
I was going to say exactly that, but decided it was not worth it. Some just don't understand business.
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You are right about not understanding business.
To depress a market you need the ability to consume that cost. As with example of Sheets, they have:
Number of locations: 600 (2019)
Number of employees: 21,000 (FY 2019)
Founder: Bob Sheetz
Revenue: US$7.5 billion (FY 2019)
The ability to consume a new store launch with a loss until it dominated a area. A single gun store is not able to do that model unless the investors are on board.
@Toprudder are you on board to invest in such a business plan with a local gun range as you outlined?
Pricing is based on what the market can bear. The Median household income of a Raleigh resident is $54,581 a year. The US average is $53,482 a year.
John
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John you don't break it down for all of Raleigh. You break it down by zip codes. TSA has better location, more business, more international travel, more money per household which relates to more discretionary income. I am not saying they should not give it a try. But if you open a place, you have to be competitive if you want to be successful. If I sell red apples for 25 cents and you sell red apples for .75 and all is equal. You will close!
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I hope it’s successful. That takes a lot of work and money for such an endeavor. I personally wouldn’t invest my money in that part of “North Raleigh”, but opening a new shooting range in Wake Co can’t be easy.
That is a very valid point. I don't know what the situation is with the investors, for some reason I get the feeling they may be connected with other ranges in other locations but I have no evidence of that. Maybe my analogy doesn't directly apply, but my point is that they are going to compete with an established business that already has a user base. As close as they are located from one another, OnPoint should expect that it will be absolutely necessary to draw from the customer base of TSA. Maybe they are going to be able to do that with what appears to be a better facility (shoothouse, etc) but starting out with a higher cost, at least initially, I don't think is a good idea. Throw in the fact they have additional restrictions (no reloads) and that doesn't help.
NO. And I also would not be interested in investing in their current business plan, either. If I were going to open a range, I would pick another area.
Yes, in market that already includes a quality range just a few miles away, in a better location, with lower prices. Competition usually drives prices down, not up.
There are two sides to a free market. There is the business side, they should be free to open and to set their prices and (in this case) rules, restrictions, etc. I get that. But then there is the consumer side. They are free to spend their money where they want, for whatever reason.
Don't get me wrong, I'm glad there is another facility opening - competition is a good thing. I wish them the best and hope they succeed. I'm sure I will go there and shoot once just to check the place out, and who knows... I know they say they won't check people's ammo for reloads (wink wink) but that is just not who I am.
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I do hope they succeed in their business venture. Tremendous amount of money for something like this.
I'm not a customer. I'd rather watch paint dry than shoot at an indoor range for the most part.
IMO, it's ok to discuss the positives and negatives and have opinions on gun related material on gun forums. This is the whole reason for gun forums.
If this puts someone out of business, they deserve it, most likely.
I'm not a customer. I'd rather watch paint dry than shoot at an indoor range for the most part.
IMO, it's ok to discuss the positives and negatives and have opinions on gun related material on gun forums. This is the whole reason for gun forums.
If this puts someone out of business, they deserve it, most likely.