Owensboro KY LEO chasing bad guy shot by homeowner in fenced yard

Discussion in 'Firearms News and Views' started by blewis3, Oct 11, 2018.

  1. blewis3

    blewis3 Member Charter Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2016
    Messages:
    109
    Likes Received:
    94
    Location:
    Spring Lake, NC
    https://www.owensborotimes.com/news/2018/10/opd-confirms-officer-shot/

    KSP identifies officer in morning shooting

    by The Owensboro Times
    24 hours ago

    UPDATE:

    Around 6:30 a.m. this morning, Kentucky State Police Post 16-Henderson was notified by Owensboro Police Department (OPD) of a shooting involving an OPD officer. OPD authorities requested KSP investigate the incident related to the shooting.

    The preliminary investigation revealed that around 5:30 a.m. this morning, Owensboro Police Officer Zachary Morris, 23 of Owensboro, responded to a call of a suspicious person possibly breaking into parked vehicles in the area of Hathaway and 6th Street in Owensboro.

    Morris arrived in the area and observed a person matching the description. The suspect fled on foot and Morris gave chase.

    Officer Morris lost sight of the fleeing suspect behind some houses in the 500 block of Hathaway Street. As the officer was checking a fenced-in area at 522 Hathaway, the homeowner of the residence shot at Officer Morris striking him.

    Officer Morris was wearing a ballistic vest but was struck in the lower abdominal area. He is at Owensboro Health Regional Hospital recovering from emergency surgery and is in good condition.

    Morris is a two-year veteran of Owensboro Police Department and is assigned to patrol.

    At this point, KSP’s Critical Incident Response Team (CIRT) is helping detectives determine what role participants had. The homeowner was detained for questioning and no charges have been filed.

    All other events leading up to this incident is being investigated by Owensboro Police Department Criminal Unit.

    ————————————————————————————————————-
     
  2. gunbelt

    gunbelt Sponsor Benefactor Charter Life Member Sponsor

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2016
    Messages:
    2,258
    Likes Received:
    5,463
    Location:
    Wesley Chapel, NC
    Get off my lawn!
     
    Ikarus1, Darkhorse, NKD and 10 others like this.
  3. Climberman

    Climberman Unstealthiest Ninja

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2016
    Messages:
    2,625
    Likes Received:
    4,976
    Location:
    Raleigh
    I am not sure what the law is in KY, but I don't think you can shoot someone for just being in your yard. They have to at least be attempting to break in to your home.
     
    Plott Hound and dmarbell like this.
  4. blewis3

    blewis3 Member Charter Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2016
    Messages:
    109
    Likes Received:
    94
    Location:
    Spring Lake, NC
    The ex wife of the homeowner just posted the following:

    If this happened as indicated the police officer needs to be fired. Hopefully there is a body cam to determine who fired first and if he did announce himself as an officer.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2018
  5. blewis3

    blewis3 Member Charter Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2016
    Messages:
    109
    Likes Received:
    94
    Location:
    Spring Lake, NC
  6. Button Pusher

    Button Pusher Well-Known Member Benefactor

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2017
    Messages:
    4,158
    Likes Received:
    4,543
    Location:
    Raleigh
    The comments on that link site are too much.
     
  7. Cpippen

    Cpippen Senior Member Charter Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2016
    Messages:
    1,781
    Likes Received:
    1,552
    Location:
    Eastern NC
    The news doesn’t mention the pet either. The officer should be fired IF he is proven to have done wrong. Again the innocent until proven guilty...same for the homeowner.
     
  8. georgel

    georgel Behind Every Blade of Grass Charter Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2016
    Messages:
    2,429
    Likes Received:
    3,178
    Location:
    em95gc
    Still not enough information and certainly not sure of the info we do have. Need to hear if the officer actually fired first and if it was at the pet or the man.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2018
    Cpippen likes this.
  9. Howland

    Howland Your daily dose of snark

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2016
    Messages:
    773
    Likes Received:
    1,237
    Location:
    Upstate SC
    Maybe poor judgement and shooting on the cops part, but at least he got the dog and that's what counts.
     
    premise, Bunsen and Mattyb like this.
  10. dmarbell

    dmarbell Sensei of Humor Benefactor Charter Life Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2016
    Messages:
    1,245
    Likes Received:
    1,766
    Location:
    Fuquay-Varina
    You dang well can shoot someone, and the homeowner just proved it. Oh, you mean do it and get away with it. Nevermind.
     
    grungewehr39, Burt Gummer and Millie like this.
  11. MostWanted

    MostWanted I used to be JustInCase Charter Member Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2016
    Messages:
    441
    Likes Received:
    759
    Location:
    Wake County
    Remember in your CHP class they told you that the curtilage of your home is part of your home, thus, Castle Doctrine applies? I know this is KY and not NC/SC but I expect the legal principals are the same.

    Wikipedia "curtilage": In law, the curtilage of a house or dwelling is the land immediately surrounding it, including any closely associated buildings and structures, but excluding any associated "open fields beyond", and also excluding any closely associated buildings, structures, or divisions that contain the separate intimate activities of their own respective occupants with those occupying residents being persons other than those residents of the house or dwelling of which the building is associated.[1] It delineates the boundary within which a home owner can have a reasonable expectation of privacy and where "intimate home activities" take place. It is an important legal concept in certain jurisdictions for the understanding of search and seizure, conveyancing of real property, burglary, trespass, and land use planning.
    In urban properties, the location of the curtilage may be evident from the position of fences, wall and similar; within larger properties it may be a matter of some legal debate as to where the private area ends and the "open fields" start.[2]
     
    Ikarus1 likes this.
  12. gunbelt

    gunbelt Sponsor Benefactor Charter Life Member Sponsor

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2016
    Messages:
    2,258
    Likes Received:
    5,463
    Location:
    Wesley Chapel, NC
    In KY you can use deadly force to protect property as it should be everywhere. I know a guy that shot a guy trying to steal his truck. He shot him with a broadhead in the throat & he bled out before the ambulance got there.
     
  13. MostWanted

    MostWanted I used to be JustInCase Charter Member Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2016
    Messages:
    441
    Likes Received:
    759
    Location:
    Wake County
    I thought this was a remarkably balanced, thoughtful, and respectful (though grammatically painful) response. We cannot know yet if her facts are correct, but I appreciate the fact she showed compassion for the officer and respect for police in general, despite her immediate disagreements with them.
     
    Button Pusher likes this.
  14. ripv2

    ripv2 Rooster Bullets Benefactor Charter Life Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2016
    Messages:
    474
    Likes Received:
    932
    Location:
    Triad
    A broadhead!?! That's some Next of Kin Swayze shit!
     
  15. JimB

    JimB Picking it up slowly. Benefactor Charter Life Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2016
    Messages:
    3,361
    Likes Received:
    3,765
    Location:
    Waxhaw
    Waiting for facts, would like to think that the officer wouldn’t have been shooting at a fleeing suspect of a property crime, and would like to think that the homeowner fired first seeing someone rushing his house or whatever, but no way to know until the investigation is over. Agree with everyone that said “hope they publish video.”
     
  16. georgel

    georgel Behind Every Blade of Grass Charter Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2016
    Messages:
    2,429
    Likes Received:
    3,178
    Location:
    em95gc
    My suspicion, pure speculation, officer enters yard, pet, presumably a dog "attacks". Officer shoots dog as resident comes out. Resident shots at "perp" (officer).
     
  17. JimB

    JimB Picking it up slowly. Benefactor Charter Life Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2016
    Messages:
    3,361
    Likes Received:
    3,765
    Location:
    Waxhaw
    Fits what we’ve been told better than what I was thinking.
     
    Button Pusher and Cowboy like this.
  18. Diablos

    Diablos Senior Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2016
    Messages:
    1,734
    Likes Received:
    4,944
    Location:
    saloon number 10

    Sounds like he got him a new seat cover
     
    gunbelt and Burt Gummer like this.
  19. blewis3

    blewis3 Member Charter Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2016
    Messages:
    109
    Likes Received:
    94
    Location:
    Spring Lake, NC
    Sounds plausible, but the ex-wife said her "grandbabies" saw their pet dog being killed. So, it sounds like that may not be the case. Could be, kids waking up to go to school. See the dog barking in the back yard, shot rings out, grandfather, in fear of getting robbed with kids in the house, grabs his weapon and returns fire. Doesn't sound like a likely scenario based on the news article and comments.

    More likely is that the dog was shot when the responding officers burst in the house and put everybody on the ground forcibly and fido responded appropriately by trying to defend his family.
     
  20. noway2

    noway2 Senior Member Charter Life Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2016
    Messages:
    5,365
    Likes Received:
    7,370
    Location:
    Onboard the mothership
    Welcome to AmeriKa. Home of the nouveau gestapo.
     
    SPM and premise like this.
  21. blewis3

    blewis3 Member Charter Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2016
    Messages:
    109
    Likes Received:
    94
    Location:
    Spring Lake, NC
    http://www.the-messenger.com/news/local/article_870b681d-60d4-5ec1-973d-c2c1be903985.html

    Little more info.

     
  22. ChickenHawk

    ChickenHawk Carpe natem Charter Member Benefactor Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2016
    Messages:
    1,851
    Likes Received:
    5,373
    Location:
    Burlington
    Button Pusher, SPM and noway2 like this.
  23. noway2

    noway2 Senior Member Charter Life Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2016
    Messages:
    5,365
    Likes Received:
    7,370
    Location:
    Onboard the mothership
    Agreed. The information about the story is rather limited and mostly seems to be hero worshipping (white washing the actions of ?) the cop. Makes you wonder what really happened.
     
    ChickenHawk, SPM and Ikarus1 like this.
  24. blewis3

    blewis3 Member Charter Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2016
    Messages:
    109
    Likes Received:
    94
    Location:
    Spring Lake, NC
    I think the dog was shot when deputies responded to the officer wounded call. Not much info on what happened when the officer responded. Found a tv news report with an interview of the homeowner (don't know how to embed so see the link below). Basically homeowner saw somebody shining a flashlight in the backyard over the fence, stepped out of his travel trailer where he was living in the backyard of his sons home with a pistol at his side. Heard two shots being fired at him with bullets whizzing overhead and dropped to the ground and returned fire with two shots. The officer then apparently retreated, as the homeowner did not find anybody there when the area was checked. Also, the officer was not equipped with a bodycam and shots had been fired from his weapon. Look like it is going to come down to a he said she said as to who fired first, but the homeowner seemed credible during his interview.

    https://www.14news.com/2018/10/10/police-scene-officer-involved-shooting-owensboro/

    If the homeowner is to be believed, I don't see how they can charge him with anything, unless they hit him with a BS charge for having a pistol at his side. Plus the police officer will probably not be charged as he saw the homeowner with a gun at his side and given their training about how quickly a situation could develop would probably be able to articulate a reasonable fear of death or severe bodily injury. Thankfully no one was hurt seriously.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2018
  25. Ikarus1

    Ikarus1 Avtomat Krishna-kov

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2016
    Messages:
    4,535
    Likes Received:
    6,036
    Location:
    East of CLT
    Most modern castle law covered curtilage. I'm sure it doesn't extend to LEOs IF they identify as such. If no such identification was readily apparent, then LEO effed up and dude will walk.

    Get off my lawn indeed. Maybe people should respect others rights, esp. when that person is involuntarily providing funds for their paycheck.

    Oh and ask Federal Marshals about shooting a dog in Idaho and how that turned out for them.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2018
  26. Combat Diver

    Combat Diver Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2017
    Messages:
    1,015
    Likes Received:
    1,839
    Location:
    Supply NC
    I used to have a Kentucky Concealed Deadly Weapons Permit when I was stationed at Ft Campbell. No matter what or how the shooting took place it will be investigated and presented to the Grand Jury. KY has doesn't care how many handguns, long guns, shotguns, sub machine guns or frying pans you have under your trench coat. If you're justified in using deadly force the weapon is immaterial.

    Would like to know what type of fence ie chain link or privacy (wood) fence. Sounds like a early dawn shooting with not enough light to identify for positive ID.

    CD
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2018
    Button Pusher and gunbelt like this.
  27. Ikarus1

    Ikarus1 Avtomat Krishna-kov

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2016
    Messages:
    4,535
    Likes Received:
    6,036
    Location:
    East of CLT
    FIFY.
     
    Cpippen likes this.
  28. noway2

    noway2 Senior Member Charter Life Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2016
    Messages:
    5,365
    Likes Received:
    7,370
    Location:
    Onboard the mothership
    Excuse me. Are you saying having a gun at your side is grounds for getting shot? Having a gun on your side at your own home is grounds for getting shot? Having a gun on you makes you a threat?
     
    SPM, ChickenHawk and Ikarus1 like this.
  29. J R Green

    J R Green Member Charter Life Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2016
    Messages:
    3,238
    Likes Received:
    3,573
    Location:
    Rutherford Co.
    Do you know he didn't point the gun? I don't.
     
  30. noway2

    noway2 Senior Member Charter Life Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2016
    Messages:
    5,365
    Likes Received:
    7,370
    Location:
    Onboard the mothership
    I'm responding to what blewis said and want to know if he means what he said.
     
  31. blewis3

    blewis3 Member Charter Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2016
    Messages:
    109
    Likes Received:
    94
    Location:
    Spring Lake, NC
    Personally, I do not believe that is grounds for being shot. But given the training that the police officers go through, the video with the vietnam vet with the rifle comes to mind, the officer may be able to make a case for reasonably being in fear of his life, especially the situation he was in; searching for a suspect in the dark. Officers have gotten off with less, the female police office who claimed to have seen a gun (don't know the exact particulars off the top of my head) comes to mind.

    As far as if he pointed it at the officer. I am assuming the homeowner was truthful when he said it was at his side. But even if it was not. You are at your home, you hear a noise in the back yard and go to investigate, wouldn't you have your weapon at the low ready.

    Food for thought.
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2018
    SPM and noway2 like this.
  32. pinkbunny

    pinkbunny Senior Member Charter Life Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2016
    Messages:
    668
    Likes Received:
    601
    Location:
    Charlotte
    Nah, they didn't thrown a snake on him first.
     
  33. BudE

    BudE Hillsborough, NC

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2016
    Messages:
    817
    Likes Received:
    873
    Location:
    Hillsborough, NC
    ^^^^^ This is exactly what I thought happened. Cop is pursuing BG. BG goes over the fence and through the yard into the next yard. Dog goes bananas. Cop jumps fence. Dog jumps cop. Homeowner awakened when 1st guy goes through the yard. Grabs gun. Hears second guy in yard and hears dog get shot. He goes out and pops cop.
     
    Cowboy likes this.
  34. Cpippen

    Cpippen Senior Member Charter Member

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2016
    Messages:
    1,781
    Likes Received:
    1,552
    Location:
    Eastern NC
    Cop deserved it then? I am still having mixed emotions on this as there are too many concerns about the events. I do not think the home owner should be charged at all. Cops shooting your dog because they trespassed is starting to get really old. Yes, I know he was chasing a perp and yes I know cops carry guns and do a dangerous job. I guess part of me says that this police state and intrusive police state at that is not always right in their actions and should be held accountable when they do wrong. I have a right to wear carry, use and wear a gun just like the officers do just as this home owner did.
     
  35. BudE

    BudE Hillsborough, NC

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2016
    Messages:
    817
    Likes Received:
    873
    Location:
    Hillsborough, NC
    In the heat of the moment people do unlikely things. Joseph Wambaugh wrote of an incident exactly like this in one of his novels. This happened decades ago. A federal officer went to question a woman in the Hayti section of Durham. She was much larger than the guy. The fed got about two sentences out of his mouth and she took off going right over the fed and knocking him on his ass. The chase was on. She ran down this hill and at the bottom of the hill were two guys standing in front of a store. As she ran past she said something to them and they both got in front of the fed. He shouted, "Out of the way! Federal officer!" The guy said, "How do we know that? You look like a raper to us." I'm told the fed was really, really pissed at that point. He pulled his gun and said, "You're right. I'm a rapist and I'm going to blow you're Fn head off and then I'm going to rape him." I'm told they got out of the way Who knows what would have happened if they hadn't. Fed never did catch that woman.
     
  36. noway2

    noway2 Senior Member Charter Life Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2016
    Messages:
    5,365
    Likes Received:
    7,370
    Location:
    Onboard the mothership
    This certainly seems plausible given the sequence of events. Assuming this is what happened, it is certainly a case that raises a lot of philosophical questions regarding the nature of the relationship between the People and government. Specifically regarding sovereignty of citizens from government intrusion.

    On one hand, it could be argued that you had an agent of the State engaging in their official State duties attempting to apprehend someone who was suspected of committing a crime. On the other hand, you have a person intentionally invading the privatized areas of another person's property, (from a legal standpoint) destroying their property (from a personal perspective killing a family member) that was responding to the invasion. You have a person who is also responding to an obviously armed intruder who by all reasonable appearances is there with violent and malicious intent defending their property and possibly their life and that of their family.

    The issue as I see it is that the State has granted itself, or believes it has granted itself, excessive authority with respect to the rights of the People to where it will claim that it has a right to wantonly violate people and their property when there is a conflict with the rights of said people when engaged in the pursuit of State interests. It is a matter of the extents or limitations placed upon the state with respect to it having authority over the People.

    This is where I have argued in the past that the idea of the State or it's agents having authority beyond that of the People is irrational. If the People don't have such authority (to commit these acts) then it is impossible for them to bestow this upon others. This is also a case of where I would go back to the model of justice in the colonial eras, not because it was idealistic, but to attempt to comprehend the reasoning and thinking of the people who founded the nation and their ideas on the limitations of government. Let's start with the 4th amendment that I think makes pretty clear the notion of "due process" required for government agents to intrude upon other people. I have also argued that a case can be made that the verbiage against standing armies was not a prohibition on the military alone, but also one on that of a standing police force as the British troops were there for State Law Enforcement functions. Rather, in colonial periods, when someone had been wronged they could plead their case to a grand jury which in turn would issue the warrants for the apprehension of the alleged criminal. The point that I am making here is that in the original intents it would have been very rare (or impossible) for a State officer would have been in this situation.

    Even if we were to assume, or allow, that the State has such authority, and admittedly it believes it does and that upon "identifying" as an agent of the state, as BudE raises above, there is the issue of what qualifies as "identifying". Unfortunately, this is an all too common question. Saying "police" doesn't make you so. Wearing a costume or uniform doesn't make you so. The acts of the individual in this case were not anything that a proverbial reasonable person would be expecting from an "official", rather they were those of a brigand. In the more colonial style era, in order to enter the person's private property they would have had to present such warrants declaring their actions as official and sanctioned. This would have also addressed the "identifying" issue rather clearly.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2018 at 3:30 PM
    premise, SPM and Howland like this.
  37. IrishCannon

    IrishCannon Fight hard.

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2016
    Messages:
    2,237
    Likes Received:
    1,835
    Location:
    Somewhere outside NC
    This right here is the main reason I refuse to buy into any of the thin blue line shit.

    Sent from my Moto G (5) Plus using Tapatalk
     
    SPM likes this.
  38. Howland

    Howland Your daily dose of snark

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2016
    Messages:
    773
    Likes Received:
    1,237
    Location:
    Upstate SC
    Nailed it!

    Paid to carry a government gun = standing army.

    Also note the provision where an individual could bring a charge directly to the Grand Jury without an intermediary beholden to your adversary. Now they just investigate themselves and always measure actions against their precious procedures and not against the law.
     
    noway2 and SPM like this.
  39. blewis3

    blewis3 Member Charter Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2016
    Messages:
    109
    Likes Received:
    94
    Location:
    Spring Lake, NC
    I do not think the dog was shot by the injured officer. First, in one of the news articles it states the dog was shot by a sheriffs deputy whereas the injured officer was a city cop. Second, in the interview with the homeowner, he did not mention the dog getting shot, only that he heard two shots directed toward him before returning fire. While it is possible that he omitted that information, I think it is highly unlikely as it would be a major part of the narrative.
     
  40. J R Green

    J R Green Member Charter Life Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2016
    Messages:
    3,238
    Likes Received:
    3,573
    Location:
    Rutherford Co.
    The dog was shot by the Deputies who responded to the officer down call.
     

Share This Page