Permit Repeal designed to kill private sales?

A seller is allowed to be as discerning as they like. There is no rule that says they must sell anything to anyone.

The nice thing about selling things on this forum is that we have a little more to go on than, say, selling something in the parking lot at a gun show. There's feedback on other deals. People in your circle might have done business with that person on an optic, ammo, or an accessory.

What happens quite often is that when someone wants to buy a firearm I'm selling, I am checking their feedback. Did they do a transaction with someone I know? What was my buddy's impression of the person? That actually goes a long way with me. It's not a background check. But it is a gut check from more than one person and that counts for something.

I've got enough friends and acquaintances now through the forum that I could only sell to people I have a good feeling about. For the record, I've never had a bad experience with anyone I've bought from or sold to on this forum.
 
Before and after is the same, all we can do is ask the buyer if they’re a prohibited person. We have no way to verify.
 
This thread has been a thought-provoking read. Kudos to @SourwoodTom for having the guts to make what he knew would be a controversial post. Also kudos to those who posted well-formed arguments. As a certain member has said, “we all have to seek our own salvation”.
 
When you sell a car, does anyone require the buyer to have a clean driving record and current insurance?

Me either.

Similarly, I'm not the Gun Police but if someone I meet with shows up with MS13 tats, I'm unlikely to sell to them, regardless of their pistol permit or not.
 
I've lived and worked in a great many states over the years.
I purchased my first firearm under the FOID system, @Timfoilhat referred to and wasn't a fan. Thanks to my job, I've been in states more restrictive and now live in one that is tolerable, but still not as free on the 2A as I would like.

In many of those states we got along fine without a permit system. Virginia was one that was also referenced and things seemed to work fine when I lived there.

It's been alluded to already, the majority of inner city gun crime is committed by repeat felons who are in possession of a gun illegally. Adding a PPP, FOID, or any other arbitrary requirement doesn't seem to be working. Until criminals are actually treated like criminals and face real penalties for violating the law nothing will change. These feel good laws just seem to make it harder to be a law abiding citizen. (take a look at the crazy "pistol brace" situation for an even better example)
 
FFL transfers for you…problem solved

If you’re saying that you don’t trust other sellers and buyers what makes you trust them now? I’m pretty sure for sales you are not involved in, you have no idea whether or not people are actually using purchase permits.

This basically makes the pistol and long gun purchase process the same in North Carolina. Have you been lobbying for a permit to purchase long guns?
 
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SourwoodTom said:
Hope I'm not making too many enemies here, its not my point. Unfortunately, discussions like this no longer occur in the legislature, and I don't trust those folks (R's or D's) at all.
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Probably not making enemies…but probably getting added to a lot of Ignore lists.
 
SourwoodTom said:
And so you just don't want to know? That's fine, I guess. But legality aside, I'd like to know I'm not contributing.
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You're not contributing to violent crime by selling a gun any more than a car dealership is contributing to a DUI by selling a car. Selling an object is not the same thing as endorsing every possible future use of that object. The thought process you're espousing is essentially the same rhetoric used by the northern commies who are passing "laws" allowing gun manufacturers to be sued out of existence for the misuse of their products by criminals. You described yourself as a conservative earlier in this thread, but there's nothing conservative about shifting the blame for a crime away from the criminal and onto a third party.

Even putting that basic logic aside, a PPP doesn't allow you to "know" anything except the fact that the buyer went to a sheriff's office up to five years ago and got a clean background check. You have no way to determine whether the buyer has committed violent crimes since obtaining the PPP, along with whether or not they intend to commit suicide with the gun, go on a murderous rampage, resell it to their criminal friend, leave it in their routinely unlocked car, etc. I know this sounds harsh, but your belief that a signed slip of paper is the difference between you "contributing" and "not contributing" to violent crime is self-delusion.
 
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SourwoodTom said:
He has to have a legal reason, thus the "shall issue". We're not NY where you have to have a reason to buy, he has to have a reason to reject. The timeline is abused, you are right about that. Fighting a denial is likely difficult as well.
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Concealed Handgun Permits are "shall issue". Pistol Purchase Permits are at the sole discretion of the sherriff. Any reason or no reason... sherriff don't want to give you one, you don't get one.
 
SourwoodTom said:
Oh man, some of you guys are brutal. I think this is the first post I've ever made that absolutely everybody disagreed with.

I spent the last 25 years of my working career as a conservative teaching college. Makes me feel like I did back then. Everybody disagreed with me.
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This is related to “I want a BOS cause it gives me proof in the future when I sell my gun”.

It never goes over well here.
 
DuncanLempRIP said:
Even putting that basic logic aside, a PPP doesn't allow you to "know" anything except the fact that the buyer went to a sheriff's office up to five years ago and got a clean background check. You have no way to determine whether the buyer has committed violent crimes since obtaining the PPP, along with whether or not they intend to commit suicide with the gun, go on a murderous rampage, resell it to their criminal friend, leave it in their routinely unlocked car, etc. I know this sounds harsh, but your belief that a signed slip of paper is the difference between you "contributing" and "not contributing" to violent crime is self-delusion.
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I haven't seen a pistol purchase permit in a couple of decades and couldn't tell you what they look like. Not even considering whether someone 'broke bad' since their permit was issued, how does one determine whether or not it's even real?
 
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You can't. It is literally a sheet of printer paper with standard-font typed sentences saying that on such-and-such date you were certified by Sheriff So-and-So as having "good moral character". My county's had a texture-style stamping (no ink) on one corner, but you could recreate that with a retracted ballpoint pen and 10 minutes of your time.
 
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Jim C. said:
I haven't seen a pistol purchase permit in a couple of decades and couldn't tell you what they look like. Not even considering whether someone 'broke bad' since their permit was issued, how does one determine whether or not it's even real?
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Screenshot_20230317_202144_DuckDuckGo.jpg
 
SourwoodTom said:
Oh man, some of you guys are brutal. I think this is the first post I've ever made that absolutely everybody disagreed with.

I spent the last 25 years of my working career as a conservative teaching college. Makes me feel like I did back then. Everybody disagreed with me.
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Try being a Yankee transplant and arguing with @fieldgrade over the definition of barbecue.

You got it easy. 😆
 
1st thing I check the Ad for is Bill of Sale or PPP required if so I quickly click on the back button…the Government already has enough info on what I have if that prevents me from buying used I’ll just go too store and buy NEW..!!!
 
Studentofthegun said:
A seller is allowed to be as discerning as they like. There is no rule that says they must sell anything to anyone.

The nice thing about selling things on this forum is that we have a little more to go on than, say, selling something in the parking lot at a gun show. There's feedback on other deals. People in your circle might have done business with that person on an optic, ammo, or an accessory.

What happens quite often is that when someone wants to buy a firearm I'm selling, I am checking their feedback. Did they do a transaction with someone I know? What was my buddy's impression of the person? That actually goes a long way with me. It's not a background check. But it is a gut check from more than one person and that counts for something.

I've got enough friends and acquaintances now through the forum that I could only sell to people I have a good feeling about. For the record, I've never had a bad experience with anyone I've bought from or sold to on this forum.
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I also have friends and family in law enforcement mainly my friends who work with Local law enforcement have NEVER EVER asked or required me too have a permit or required me too have a bill of sale and they work with the Law so for a person too ask for proof of legality of ownership is absurd and if I want a Paper trail for BIG BROTHER too follow I’ll just buy from a store a cut the private sales off
 
Jim C. said:
I haven't seen a pistol purchase permit in a couple of decades and couldn't tell you what they look like. Not even considering whether someone 'broke bad' since their permit was issued, how does one determine whether or not it's even real?
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An often overlooked aspect of the PPP is that for the 5 bucks I can't see the sheriff keeping tabs on permits already issued and revoking them. Is that a thing?
 
Stogies said:
An often overlooked aspect of the PPP is that for the 5 bucks I can't see the sheriff keeping tabs on permits already issued and revoking them. Is that a thing?
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As I recall, They used to be gtg as long as that sheriff was still in office. Around here there only good for a few years.
I haven't had one since the old sheriff Baker was in office 20+ years ago.
 
Still good for 5 years everywhere by statute.

I think I’ve seen language that makes them invalid and/or requires you to destroy them if you become a prohibited person, but that’s not in the statute so I could be wrong.
 
DuncanLempRIP said:
I know this sounds harsh, but your belief that a signed slip of paper is the difference between you "contributing" and "not contributing" to violent crime is self-delusion.
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I wish everyone would stop trying to pretend that all this push for gun laws, especially from the communists, has anything to do with crime, and instead fess up about their desire for a disarmed populace they think they can then control.
 
". It only takes one or two media-hyped incidents to get the sheep riled up enough to tighten the law after it has been loosened."

They will do this with, or without *ANY* firearms law on the books, until all firearms are removed from private hands. The "if we just meet them halfway, they'll come to like and respect us" strategy is always doomed to fail
 
shooter89 said:
1st thing I check the Ad for is Bill of Sale or PPP required if so I quickly click on the back button…the Government already has enough info on what I have if that prevents me from buying used I’ll just go too store and buy NEW..!!!
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i told one guy that had a pistol sitting unwanted that if he retracted his bos requirement he might get offers. he retracted it and i bought it
another guy not too long ago, i said his price was plenty good, but the bos was killing him. told him to drop that and if it hadn't sold in a week, i'd buy it. i didnt have to buy it
 
MacEntyre said:
That's not a law. Laws can be repealed by legislatures. All gun laws are infringements on the Second Amendment.
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Article VI, Clause 2:

"This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land"

Not only is the Constitution law, it is the highest law of the United States. That is why I usually put "gun laws" in quotes, because what most people refer to as gun laws are not laws at all; they run counter to the second amendment and are therefore null and void.

I hate to break it to you, but legislatures can also repeal amendments to the Constitution. Take a look at the 21st amendment. Congress (the federal legislature) and the state legislatures repealed the 18th amendment.
 
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