Pistol Sight picture, 3-Gun or other Action events

Tim

Tim

Checked Out
Staff member
2A Bourbon Hound 2024
2A Bourbon Hound OG
Charter Life Member
Benefactor
Vendor
Multi-Factor Enabled
Joined
Dec 17, 2016
Messages
16,581
Location
A Glass Cage of Emotion
Rating - 100%
85   0   0
I pretty much only shoot my pistol during competitions. After yesterday’s match I have vowed to do that whole practice thing.

I know that NRA Bullseye competitions will have a different approach, so I’m looking to 3-Gunners, IDPA, IPSC, etc. shooters for your input on sight picture.

6 o’clock? zeroed at what distance?
POA/POI at what distance…?
Something else?
 
Last edited:
Tim said:
I pretty much only shoot my pistol during competitions. After yesterday’s match I have vowed to do that whole practice thing.

I know that NRA Bullseye competitions will have a different approach, so I’m looking to 3-Gunners, IDPA, IPSC, etc. shooters for your input on sight picture.

6 o’clock? zeroed at what distance?
POA/POI at what distance…?
Something else?
Click to expand...

A lot will depend on how the gun is setup. Lots of guns these days come with what people refer to as a combat sight picture POA POI. Other guns are setup for a 6 o clock hold.


AIMPOINT-T2-1-1.png
 
Tagged.

This recent match, I (sorta) resolved the glasses/magnification issue. Now I'm considering a red dot on pistol, but am pretty confortable with open sights at pistol competition ranges.

Incidentally,

Tim said:
I know that NRA Bullseye competitions will have a different approach
Click to expand...
this is one of the handicaps I need to overcome. Dad was an excellent NRA Bullseye shooter & this is how I learned at age 8 or 9. Slow, one eye closed, sight alignment, trigger control, and arc of movement... not particularly conducive to sucessful combat-shooting competition or clay/bird shotgunning.
 
To truly go fast you need to find your acceptable sight picture for the difficulty of that target. A wide open 3 yard target does not require the same sight picture as a head shot at 20 yards. This can only be done by doing it. It is different for everyone.
 
wvsig said:
A lot will depend on how the gun is setup. Lots of guns these days come with what people refer to as a combat sight picture POA POI. Other guns are setup for a 6 o clock hold.


AIMPOINT-T2-1-1.png
Click to expand...

Fully adjustable rear sight.
 
Tim said:
Fully adjustable rear sight.
Click to expand...

So you can set it up the way you want it. I am not a competition guy but for me the combat sight picture is the fastest. I like my guns to be set up to run the sight picture in the middle in the pic above. It comes from shooting a lot of Sigs early in my shooting life and they are setup for that sight picture.

As others have said distance and required accuracy is going to be a factor but for shooting fast accurately enough I like the combat sight picture. For me the next best option is the center hold which is the one on the right. I do not like the 6 oclock hold at all.
 
Last edited:
Wolffy said:
To truly go fast you need to find your acceptable sight picture for the difficulty of that target. A wide open 3 yard target does not require the same sight picture as a head shot at 20 yards. This can only be done by doing it. It is different for everyone.
Click to expand...
Well, of course.

I’m looking for others’ preferred zero and sight picture. It’s not like we can dial dope on the clock with our pistols.
 
Last edited:
Tim said:
Well, of course.

I’m looking for others’ preferred zero and sight picture. It’s not like we can dial dope on the clock with our pistols.
Click to expand...
With adjustable rear sight you can set it up however you want. What does your eye pick up quicker is the question.
 
Thinking back on Saturday, I think I'm most comfortable with center hold. If I'm not hitting, I try to imagine where the sights were when the last shot broke, then move up a little or down a little accordingly.
 
Just for a change in perspective... Talk about gaming...

Back in the '80's, I knew some PPC shooters that set the sights on the neck of the B29 target to get center hits in the X-ring. They said the neck was a natural focused aiming point compared to the large center mass. IIRC. They even modified front sight blades to match the width of the neck at range.

362147.jpg
 
20-25yds Center hold, actually a little higher 1-2" but not full blown 6 o'clock. It's nice to be able to align the sights with a horizontal partial and know you're not getting a miss, and also not have your sights blot out long steel or headboxes.
 
  • Like
Reactions: NKD
RDS - 25 yards

Irons - If fiber optic/hi-viz tritium/gold bead, sighted “through” that aiming point at 25 yards. If plain black, sighted to the top of the front sight at 25 yards.

I don’t aim three-dot sights at anything, I remove and replace them.

6 o’clock holds are for lining up crisp patridge sights under black circles of a specific size at known distances.

Traditional iron sights and quality pistol red dots are so close to the bore that offset is a non-issue except at contact distances. From five yards and up through 35 yards, a 25 yard zero shoots so close to the point of visual reference (the dot or the front sight) that there’s no thinking needed.
 
Windini said:
this is one of the handicaps I need to overcome. Dad was an excellent NRA Bullseye shooter & this is how I learned at age 8 or 9. Slow, one eye closed, sight alignment, trigger control, and arc of movement... not particularly conducive to sucessful combat-shooting competition or clay/bird shotgunning.
Click to expand...
Same here. My dad wasn't a competitive shooter, but he taught me to shoot with one eye closed. I think he taught me that way because that is the only way he could shoot because of his horrible eyesight and thick glasses. I didn't experience the effects of my cross-dominance until I started dove hunting, and all my hunting buddies were shooting with both eyes open. I simply could not shoot with both eyes open, and didn't really know why.

I'm still learning to deal with the effects of cross-dominance on the sight picture.

Sorry for the thread drift Tim, but you had me at "sight picture".
 
Ten yards. Most competition range is around there, most actual shootings are at around 7 yards. If you have combat sights, three dots, the front dot is supposed to be the bullet hole.

Starkherz199 said:
You guys aim?
Click to expand...
This is what I find in competition. People get so wrapped up on time they don't actually aim. You can't miss fast enough to win.
 
J R Green said:
Ten yards. Most competition range is around there, most actual shootings are at around 7 yards. If you have combat sights, three dots, the front dot is supposed to be the bullet hole.


This is what I find in competition. People get so wrapped up on time they don't actually aim. You can't miss fast enough to win.
Click to expand...
But you can miss fast enough to look good on Instagram.
 
Starkherz199 said:
But you can miss fast enough to look good on Instagram.
Click to expand...

You also can’t hit slow enough to win.

Fast hits win. Good mechanical index, good grip fundamentals, and good visual focus enable fast hits.

Deliberately aligning the sights in a practical setting (for anyone other than a novice)—“aiming to ensure hits”—is just compensating for an improper master grip. A proper draw and master grip presents the sights, already aligned, to the eyeline. “Aiming” in a practical shooting setting is a symptom. The cure is consistent proper dryfire reinforced with livefire.

It’s like shotgunning. If you’re not mounting correctly, then you don’t compensate by learning to adjust the gun on the fly every time a clay is in the air. You compensate by drilling your mount over and over until it’s consistent. Get your mount, see your bird, eyes lead the gun.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: NKD
JRV said:
You also can’t hit slow enough to win.

Fast hits win. Good mechanical index, good grip fundamentals, and good visual focus enable fast hits.

Deliberately aligning the sights in a practical setting (for anyone other than a novice)—“aiming to ensure hits”—is just compensating for an improper master grip. A proper draw and master grip presents the sights, already aligned, to the eyeline. “Aiming” in a practical shooting setting is a symptom. The cure is consistent proper dryfire reinforced with livefire.

It’s like shotgunning. If you’re not mounting correctly, then you don’t compensate by learning to adjust the gun on the fly every time a clay is in the air. You compensate by drilling your mount over and over until it’s consistent. Get your mount, see your bird, eyes lead the gun.
Click to expand...
Sounds like you're advocating practice. That's crazy talk 🤣
 
JRV said:
A proper draw and master grip presents the sights, already aligned, to the eyeline. “Aiming” in a practical shooting setting is a symptom. The cure is consistent proper dryfire reinforced with livefire.
Click to expand...
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^This......3 minutes a day.....every day. Not all at once.
Starkherz199 said:
Sounds like you're advocating practice. That's crazy talk 🤣
Click to expand...
^^^^ ain't it so....folks won't commit to 3 minutes a day. Let's Buy New Sights 🥺

Dry fire for Practice, live fire for Verification....true 50 years ago. Still true.
 
BatteryOaksBilly said:
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^This......3 minutes a day.....every day. Not all at once.

^^^^ ain't it so....folks won't commit to 3 minutes a day. Let's Buy New Sights 🥺

Dry fire for Practice, live fire for Verification....true 50 years ago. Still true.
Click to expand...
These days for me it is an airsoft version of the CZ Shadow. Same size, weight, controls etc... Cost $.50 a day to train and you get some feedback to the quality of your presentation.
 
wvsig said:
These days for me it is an airsoft version of the CZ Shadow. Same size, weight, controls etc... Cost $.50 a day to train and you get some feedback to the quality of your presentation.
Click to expand...
How is that airsoft working for you?
I would have gone that way, but couldn't ever find one in stock. Went with the cool fire trainer instead.
 
Starkherz199 said:
How is that airsoft working for you?
I would have gone that way, but couldn't ever find one in stock. Went with the cool fire trainer instead.
Click to expand...
It is great. I got lucky and found one at Evike before things got super crazy. Paid a little more than buying from overseas but not as much as they are going for today.

www.evike.com

CZ Shadow 2 Gas Blowback Airsoft Pistol by ASG (Color: Black / CO2)

Shop The CZ Shadow 2 is our new flag ship in the CZ family line of pistols. Designed by top tier competition shooters, the is well balanced and made for speed and precision. The ASG CZ Shadow 2 CO2 (Gas magazines sold separately) Airsoft pistol takes from it's real steel counterpart and...
www.evike.com www.evike.com

At the time I bought mine they only had the CO2 mags not the greeen gas ones but for my needs the CO2 works and is cheap enough. I can usually find them at Walmart cheap.

I have not had any major issues with the pistol. It is a blowback design and occasionally because of my grip I prevent the slide from going to full battery but a slight nudge sets me right. The recoil impulse is the only drawback but for me it’s more about presentation then the speed of rounds on target.

I highly recommend it. I think all in with 2 mags 5000 pellets and my initial order of 75 CO2 canisters I was out the door at $260.

How is the cool fire?
 
wvsig said:
It is great. I got lucky and found one at Evike before things got super crazy. Paid a little more than buying from overseas but not as much as they are going for today.

www.evike.com

CZ Shadow 2 Gas Blowback Airsoft Pistol by ASG (Color: Black / CO2)

Shop The CZ Shadow 2 is our new flag ship in the CZ family line of pistols. Designed by top tier competition shooters, the is well balanced and made for speed and precision. The ASG CZ Shadow 2 CO2 (Gas magazines sold separately) Airsoft pistol takes from it's real steel counterpart and...
www.evike.com www.evike.com

At the time I bought mine they only had the CO2 mags not the greeen gas ones but for my needs the CO2 works and is cheap enough. I can usually find them at Walmart cheap.

I have not had any major issues with the pistol. It is a blowback design and occasionally because of my grip I prevent the slide from going to full battery but a slight nudge sets me right. The recoil impulse is the only drawback but for me it’s more about presentation then the speed of rounds on target.

I highly recommend it. I think all in with 2 mags 5000 pellets and my initial order of 75 CO2 canisters I was out the door at $260.

How is the cool fire?
Click to expand...
It works great for my needs. It has the recoil needed to force you to keep support hand pressure tight. And the sight picture moves and you're forced to require it just like livefire. The only drawback is you get plenty of recoil, but no muzzle flip. So its not 100% like livefire, but its the closest thing you can get.
I'm considering getting one for the Shield
 
Tim said:
After yesterday’s match I have vowed to do that whole practice thing.
Click to expand...

Lame!

I'm a (or was a before the plague) a USPSA "B" production guy so take my info for what it's worth.

G34 with the trijicon HD irons requires a 6 o'clock (-ish) hold on 6" plates out to about 15 yards. G44 with the same trijicons his center at that same distance. I know this because when I switch guns between runs my first few shots are either low or high until my brain resets. Fortunately I don't switch guns in a match.

At 35 yards the G34 is 'top of the blade' goes into the center of the 1/3 sized silhouettes we have and that gets me the most hits. I don't actually know what the POI/POA distance is.

I'm pretty much never getting Cs or Ds due to vertical offset, and I'm basically always aiming at the center of the A even though the gun shoot's "high". It's usually from poor transitions and either shooting before I'm in the A zone or rushing to get to the next target and pulling out of the A for the 2nd shot. Last match there were two nice 1" little groups.... right in the C zone as I kept rushing the transitions. Can't miss fast enough, or something like that.

Oh, and the G34 actually does shoot left, as cliché as that is. I have.... (don't tell the wife) 8 glocks and 7 of them the rear is just centered up and they shoot fine. The G34 I use all the time has it bumped right a bit to keep them in the middle with my preferred match load (115gr tula or wolf).
 
  • Like
Reactions: NKD
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom