I'm trying to wrap my mind around all this, but it's new to me to even think about this stuff, so bear with me. How can you practice reacting to such a situation? Do you mean you train with your gun a lot?That's the kind of thinking that leads to panic/freeze in the real world. I know how I want to react and I've practiced doing that. If/when the time comes I *at least* have a mental template for taking action.
Well, so do I. BUT, you can practice until you are blue in the face, you still don't know for sure how you will react in this type of situation until, God forbid, we are in it, AND I certainly hope NONE of us are ever forced to find out. All of that said, you are right that we all should think about and practice for this very thing.That's the kind of thinking that leads to panic/freeze in the real world. I know how I want to react and I've practiced doing that. If/when the time comes I *at least* have a mental template for taking action.
I'm trying to wrap my mind around all this, but it's new to me to even think about this stuff, so bear with me. How can you practice reacting to such a situation? Do you mean you train with your gun a lot?
I've been thinking about things like this more and more, but still not really sure how to prepare myself for it. As I said above, my instinct would be to hide, while a lot of you guys will run to the gunfire! I don't want to run towards the gunfire!! It sounds insane, but I can see why you'd do it.
How can an untrained older lady get her mind set up for doing something other than looking for a place to be invisible?
I think it takes a really special kind of person to even want to be in a profession that puts them in danger, and then they get all the training to reinforce that, and then you have the guy/girl who will run to where the problem is, and who will deal with it and maybe get killed because they did it.
The rest of us are not like that, we're going to pee ourselves and faint, probably. I'd like to not do that!!
I don't think my brain has enough storage to know/contain all my weaknesses!importantly know your weaknesses.
It sounds like an awesome kind of training, and I'll see if I can find something like that, thanks for the idea!@Millie I can't give you a great answer to this because I don't know much. I had a group at my club who would meet once a month for scenario-based "training". We practiced problem solving under simulated stress. Sometimes with a gun, sometimes not. Every month was a different "what if". I think it helped improve my mindset - and I hope I never know for sure. I've never been under incoming fire despite what you've heard about Charlotte.
If you can find a chance to work in a group scenario it's a lot more engaging than a normal day at the range... try it!
Seek cover in the bakery probably. Lots of cover, few people, and a rarely used exit.
My edc consists of a cell phone and a cobalt razor knife, which is dull as crap from work...so, that being said. I'd flee away from the gunfire, and call 911, moving me and my family as quickly as possible for the back exits. Praying no one is laying in wait there. If all exits are blocked...find the guns in said Wally world(thats assuming they still carry firearms and ammo), load em up and start handing em out. Me and mine know how to shoot, and with buck shot, we are not as likely to miss... I'd rather be hiding with a fighting chance, than just waiting for my demise. In todays world...I kinda already feel that going out in public, without a gun, is very risky, playing with fire, so to speak.Practice practice practice and then practice some more. Practice in different places with different people at different times.
A few examples:
You probably drive, have been for years. So now you know how to react during certain sudden driving emergencies. Someone swerves in front of you, someone cuts you off, guy slams on his brakes. Maybe it’s snow or rain. You’ve been there, you know how you and your car perform in these situations.
Also, about a year ago I got into doing extreme obstacle course races. I was so stupidly nervous the first time I got into the starting corral. I ran the first race, bumbled my way through the obstacles the best I could. And finished. Now, when I run them I know, roughly, what to expect. The obstacles are always slightly different, set up in different order or in different places. But I now have the confidence to face the courses because I have before.
And that basically sums it all up: confidence. Know your equipment, know your skills, more importantly know your weaknesses.
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Ive said it before, and I'll repeat it now.
Ive been in a situation where a guy with a gun was threatening to shoot/kill (I forget the exact word he used) 'every m-fer in this place'
I know what I did - cowered. My back was to the door, where he was, and as I heard him start talking I was pulled down into the booth by a friend.
From there it was get as small as possible and hope I, or my friends, didnt get shot and killed.
No shots were fired, thankfully, so no one was injured that night.
But it made me realize that when faced with a situation like this that a lot of bravado goes out the dang window.
Many on here are former mil or leo, of those Im sure many have had a bullet shot AT THEM and they dont have that level of fear that I have. Well done. But me, a normal guy, it got real very quick and you'll NEVER hear of me speaking with bravado about it cause I know how it went down before.
If Im doing my Sunday morning shopping and things pop off - Im going to an exit
Lol That's sig line worthy!If I'm gonna die, I'm gonna die eating a donut.....
I've known a couple of BTDT (Been There Done That) types in law enforcement. In the shootings they were involed in, neither suffered the list of "problems" normally associated with shooting trauma. Both of them said it was just another training day. Both of them train hard and frequent, practicing scenarios they might encounter. Fortunately, all of the shootings they experienced few into those scenarios. This also allowed the to respond quickly and effectively. Training.No truer words were ever spoken. I can tell you one story along these lines.
I want to frame this correctly because it's very different than an active shooter for the lead-up. We as a military unit knew the deployment time, read and study the area, and start patrolling the area. So to say we were warmed up is very different than a cold start we all face today from an active shooter. I spent 5 years in the Airborne Infantry before my first combat event. We would train mostly on Bragg but twice a year around the US on Army posts doing Infantry things with blank fire, blanks with laser tag, dry fire, and live-fire shooting on paper and plastic targets. In 2001 we deployed to Kosovo on a peacekeeping mission, the week before Easter it went real.
First contact with live targets went damn near like training. Not a big deal physically or processing the situation as a doer or small team leader. Mentally it was half and half. Half damn bro, we did it, the other, was shaking off the rush and then processing one's own philosophy. Some succeeded, others not so much over the long term. During that deployment, I was involved in a few other ballistic conversations. Once we went to OEF 1 things, started to change for me personally, the exposer got odd for me at the least.
I relate this to jumping out of an airplane or repelling down a rope, the first time, is worse in your mind than the actual event. The 2nd to 15th event scares the hell out of you because you experience different things through the desensitization to the environment. After that, you are forged and its just another way to get to work.
As time ticked on, OEF, OIF, as I aged and grew I would not take the chances I did back in 2001 in Kosovo.
The point of this is this.
I have seen a hero become a zero in under a second. I have seen a zero become a hero in the same timeframe. I personally have been both in a 1 minute span of time. There is no shame in any of it unless one's actions cause another's needless death, you can only do what you can at that time.
I'm trying to wrap my mind around all this, but it's new to me to even think about this stuff, so bear with me. How can you practice reacting to such a situation? Do you mean you train with your gun a lot?
I've been thinking about things like this more and more, but still not really sure how to prepare myself for it. As I said above, my instinct would be to hide, while a lot of you guys will run to the gunfire! I don't want to run towards the gunfire!! It sounds insane, but I can see why you'd do it.
How can an untrained older lady get her mind set up for doing something other than looking for a place to be invisible?
I think it takes a really special kind of person to even want to be in a profession that puts them in danger, and then they get all the training to reinforce that, and then you have the guy/girl who will run to where the problem is, and who will deal with it and maybe get killed because they did it.
The rest of us are not like that, we're going to pee ourselves and faint, probably. I'd like to not do that!!
I've known a couple of BTDT (Been There Done That) types in law enforcement. In the shootings they were involed in, neither suffered the list of "problems" normally associated with shooting trauma. Both of them said it was just another training day. Both of them train hard and frequent, practicing scenarios they might encounter. Fortunately, all of the shootings they experienced few into those scenarios. This also allowed the to respond quickly and effectively. Training.
Most don't realize that under stress, real stress, if you haven't ingrained it in muscle memory, your body will fail you. All that logical decision making you're planning on making will fail you too.Thats 100% correct.
Ones performance goes to the lowest level of mastered ability in high stress.
This IS true. We do it here at least weekly. For me Daily. From a dining table, into and out of a car, back to and facing followed by left and right. We even have an ATM machine on the range. We do these things Not to become a master of all problems But to not be a stranger to any problem. What ifs are our friends. On the job training in a life threatening event is not a good thing.if you run through scenarios in your head and how you would you react in various situations the outcome has a higher likelihood to be how you practice them in your head.
Many of these fire exits have a 10-30 second time delay before they open.Has anyone ever checked out the exits at a Wong Mart? Most of them seem to have the same layout so if you know one, you have a good idea about the rest. If I recall the back wall doesn't have an exit? Side exits are garden center, automotive, and maybe through the meat section? In a fire I think it would be a friggin nightmare!
I'm trying to wrap my mind around all this, but it's new to me to even think about this stuff, so bear with me. How can you practice reacting to such a situation? Do you mean you train with your gun a lot?
I've been thinking about things like this more and more, but still not really sure how to prepare myself for it. As I said above, my instinct would be to hide, while a lot of you guys will run to the gunfire! I don't want to run towards the gunfire!! It sounds insane, but I can see why you'd do it.
How can an untrained older lady get her mind set up for doing something other than looking for a place to be invisible?
This is very helpful, thanks. I like to know how you guys think about this sort of stuff. I'm going to get my brain to do these thinking exercises for various scenarios.Alot of this is the concept of mental mind mapping and rehearsal and increased situational awareness, you can do this stuff anywhere at anytime.
When I trained new Paramedics this was one of the things I stressed with them and made them do all the time, one thing that I would do regularly would be driving down the street coming back from a call or other time we weren't on a call, I would kick the floorwell of the truck or slam the dashboard to make a loud noise and say "We just got T Boned by a car, I'm unconscious, Where are we?" "What's your next steps?" Same things if we were on the scene of a call, I would randomly ask them " What is the address where we are?" "When we got off the elevator, how many doors down is the apartment and what side of the hallway?"
You can do the same thing for whatever circumstance you want to play out, "If something bad happens right now, where am I and where am I going?" Break it down into the minute steps, step by step, not broad concepts.
Try this one, you are asleep in bed and hear your front door being kicked open, step by step think about every step you are going to take to identify and address the threat.
Interestingly enough there is some significant science to support that people who do this often respond how they have played it out in your mind, because your brain doesn't really differentiate from a real event and one you have just processed in your brain. It's kinda like a mental fire drill. You don't have to set your house on fire to practice what to do.
I'd like to hear about your force on force training if you want to PM me. Or tell all of us. I'm very interested in getting more training than shooting a gun.Most don't realize that under stress, real stress, if you haven't ingrained it in muscle memory, your body will fail you. All that logical decision making you're planning on making will fail you too.
Dramatically demonstrated to me in full contact force on force training.
No, they’re not the same. Typically there’s walk through and roll up dock doors on the rear right and left. It’s also a small warehouse with 12’ racking filled with pallets of product. If you can’t run, you can climb and hide.Has anyone ever checked out the exits at a Wong Mart? Most of them seem to have the same layout so if you know one, you have a good idea about the rest. If I recall the back wall doesn't have an exit? Side exits are garden center, automotive, and maybe through the meat section? In a fire I think it would be a friggin nightmare!
Practice practice practice and then practice some more. Practice in different places with different people at different times.
I've done a bit of reading on the term, but I'll do some more. Thanks.@Millie
You your question on the how to start the process of deciding in such situations.
Look up this term OODA Loop
You will find military business references to that process.
Learn it and apply it to one current aspect of human to human interaction you want to win.
Once you understand the process, apply OODA Loop to this topics situations.
I've done a bit of reading on the term, but I'll do some more. Thanks.
The key is to use it in life in interactions you want to win.
I use the four elements everyday in most human interactions.
Hmm... How not to write a book answering this...I'm trying to wrap my mind around all this, but it's new to me to even think about this stuff, so bear with me. How can you practice reacting to such a situation? Do you mean you train with your gun a lot?
I've been thinking about things like this more and more, but still not really sure how to prepare myself for it. As I said above, my instinct would be to hide, while a lot of you guys will run to the gunfire! I don't want to run towards the gunfire!! It sounds insane, but I can see why you'd do it.
How can an untrained older lady get her mind set up for doing something other than looking for a place to be invisible?
I think it takes a really special kind of person to even want to be in a profession that puts them in danger, and then they get all the training to reinforce that, and then you have the guy/girl who will run to where the problem is, and who will deal with it and maybe get killed because they did it.
The rest of us are not like that, we're going to pee ourselves and faint, probably. I'd like to not do that!!
I'm so new that everything helps! Thanks.Hmm... How not to write a book answering this...
There are multiple facets to being prepared, mental conditioning being one of them and the most important. The deer in headlights/peeing yourself response is your brain going through your Rolodex of What Do I Do? cards and coming up empty. Sorry, no instuctions for your next move, so you stand there, yet you recognize there is danger. Like calling 911 in an extreme situation and getting put on hold.
The key is to make a card for that situation. It can be as simple as going through mental "What If's" throughout your day. You're standing in line at the convenience store behind some dude. What if he pulls a gun and starts to rob the place? (He doesn't have to be a squirrelly looking dude for the exercise, just anyone.) What will you do? Go through the mental exercise in detail. Try different solutions and determine what would have been best in that situation. Hit him over the head with the bottle of Mad Dog 20/20 in your hand? Nope, too small. Pull your concealed carry? Wait, didn't he come in with someone? Figure out what would have been the best real solution and you just added a tentative card to your Rolodex. And you can update the card next time. Do this every day, randomly all day. I like the idea of the random alarm Billy mentioned. When the alarm goes off, assess your situation. Where would I run if I had to exit. Where could hide if I had to. What could I improvse as a weapon if I had too. What if the power went out? Do I have a light? (Always have a light. ;0)) Every place you frequent, you should mentally note where the potential exits and resources are, including bullet resistance things to hide behind. This adds cards to the Rolodex. It becomes second nature after you do it a while. I often think of the old Pink Panther movies and that servant that would attack him out of nowhere.A Always be thinking, if it suddenly went bad, what would I do? Work it out in detail. You'll often find your first impluse may not have been the best choice after working through other options. Add and update those cards.
This is only one small part of the picture. More to come in this or another thread. Hope it helps. ;0)
the two professions that do this 'better' are pilots and out-of-hospital medical providers (EMS and military). Remember old-school ACLS? I could still run a code to 1990 standards because you had to run a code totally in your head before you did megacode in front of the panel of physicians and run their gauntlet.