Practical Shooting-Matt Pranka
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georgel
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Yes! Fully agree. The two are separate, but integrate. Competitive shooting like IDPA hones gun handling skill under stress, but the tactics are often wrong. And that can lead to bad habits. You will fall back to what you practice. Tactical shooting doesn't do much good if, when it's time to pull the trigger, you are unable to perform. The two are separate skill,s, but both need to be practiced. On a defensive basis, one must always be conscious of the differences.
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Can you tell us what "tactics" are wrong?
And, what makes IDPA more effective than say, 3gun or USPSA? And curious what division you shoot in IDPA?
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Chuckman
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You never know until the targets start shooting back.
In full disclosure I say the same thing about guys in the military.
You can talk the talk but no one--NO one-- knows if they can walk the wall.
Several years ago, I saw a local IDPA master show up to a USPSA classifier match ready to burn it down. It did not go to well for him. Two USPSA Master class shooters and a USPSA GM pretty much walked the dog on the IDPA shooter. No tactics involved... Just pure shooting skills in those classifiers.
Even a C class USPSA shooter can do that.
I keed I keed. I know some very good shooters in IDPA. But the level of USPSA is much more competitive, indeed. It's very humbling.
Competition makes you:
Faster and more accurate. This is BETTER. In any situation, especially a tactical one. Gun fights are competitions with severe consequences to the loser.
Where do you train that the targets are shooting back?
An IDPA Master is roughly (on average) equivalent to a Low to mid A class USPSA shooter.
Good at both. ^^^^
"Alright fellas, no more than two pumps......ok GO!!!"
But, admit it, you pumped it 3-4 times for that shot on that prick Timmy.
I have on two occasions here put on Practical matches that No one could see the course of fire in advance......makes a difference....a Big difference.
Seeing some people at some of the matches I've been to...I would be scared to be an RO at that.
Chuckman
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Ok? I think we can all agree we cannot see the future.
But, one thing is absolutely a certainty: being a grandmaster shooter is not going to hurt in any way. Jerry Miculek is not going to do worse in a gunfight than a basic boot. Which is what Slackers point is.
Todd Jarret can draw and perform a headshot at 50 yards in less than 1.1 seconds. And, having shot millions of rounds, I don’t think he’s going to fall to pieces when the guns come out.
Maybe I missed the point. Not sure what it was actually.
Like Amp Mangum!
georgel
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LoL. Didn't mean to ruffle your feathers.
I said, I agree with what I believe Matt Pranka is saying, in the video. But, he says practical and tactical so often, it's hard track what he's saying. Let's break it down.
First, let's define some terms...
I believe when he says "practical" shooting, he means the competition shooting disciplines like IDPA, USPCA, 3-Gun, etc.
When he refers to "tactical" shooting, he references CQB and scenario based training, which is a different animal. It's not a competitive discipline, per se. Scores are binary, win/don't win.
Matt is calling out "tactical" shooters, who believe "practical shooters" are just gamers and couldn't survive a real fight. But Matt's point is that you have to have the foundation of good gun handling skills that are honed in "practical" shooting or your "tactics" are practically worthless.
You must be able to put the bullets on target under stress, which is what "practical" shooting gives you. Your superlative "tactics" may put you in a better position to shoot your enemy, but if your shooting sucks, what good is it?
What I added, is that it goes both ways. Great shooting skills don't help if your enemy has you in his sights, but you don't even see him yet or you haven't even drawn your gun. That's what "tactics" teaches you. You need both in the real world.
As far a what's wrong with IDPA, it's mostly about stage design and repetition of actions that aren't "tactical". IDPA and other similar disciplines for that matter are games with rules and a timer. When the rules dictate, you must retain your mag for this string or you must shoot the targets in this order 1,2,3,3,2,1. That may not be the actual best order to shoot them in or even wise to stand there taking the time to shoot at all 3 targets at one go. By the time you get back to #1, he's got a 2 second lead on you, if he didn't go down. Or, would you ever really go down a hallway like that? I used to watch people finish strings with the side to side scan, knowing full well, they weren't really looking at anything, just moving their heads back and forth. That could be a bad habit to develop. And we tend to fall back on our habits.
I encourage "practical" shooting competition to refine gun handling skills and accuracy under stress.
I encourage "tactical" training to optimize when and how to use the "practical" skills. It's not all run and gun.
ETA: Training where targets shoot back? That's Force on Force training, which is in the realm of "tactical".
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Chuckman
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It's all good.
Their experience and competence give them an edge up, just as you get an edge up coming out of the school of infantry. Depending on training and experience and skill, it could be a big edge, a very, very big edge. I'm sure the guy would probably do just fine, my only point was no one knows exactly how one would do until you get shot at. That's all. Certainly not questioning the man's competence.
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georgel
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Can a "practical" shooter defend themselves?
Yes, it's an NRA ad, but this version of the story comes straight from the shooter.
Yes, it's an NRA ad, but this version of the story comes straight from the shooter.
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FYI, the 1st stage of the 1st competition I ever shot was a blind stage.
And I didn't die...lol.
Too bad IDPA made them illegal.
USPSA / IDPA is not training, it's about making gun handling skills subconscious, and stress enoculation.
Making gun handling skills subconscious and stress inoculation isn't training?
The above is exactly why a man that shoots 20 rounds A Day, in 7 or 8 draw and present events has better gun handling skills than a fellow that shoots 500 rounds twice a month.
I learned years ago, if you want to check a man's gun handling skills, watch him put his gun Away after shooting. Most anybody can find the gun and get it going, but when a man puts away his gun in a fluid motion, it becomes clear real quick how much he practices.
2:54 mark or so "...I'm not going to walk around with this rig, this isn't my carry rig and this isn't the setup I'm going to have, because I'm set up to play a game right now. However, I doubt most people would want to get into a gun fight with me."