Private sales ?

All this is great to discuss here, we all need to think through these scenarios, but the overarching rule is that you’re not going to win an argument on the side of the road.

My plan, if ever asked, is to say that I refuse to turn it over voluntarily and ask if they are ordering me to surrender it? If they are, then I will comply. Will I sue them later, depends.
 
I've never had the pleasure of meeting @thrillhill but it's my understanding that he's built like a Redwood.
That's why this post made me laugh. It'd take roughly half the shift to slam him anywhere he didn't want to go.

Me, on the other hand? Oh yeah I'm eating pavement.

1715186468115.png
 
Average Joe said:
I went back to pull the information for everyone. I’m finding a 4th circuit court opinion that may have impact on my previous statement regarding consent or PC. I’m trying to get clarification.
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Joe
If during your search if you have any extra time can you please tell me the a statute that actually states you have to tell a officer you have a firearm. That's so ridiculous to me. How in the world did that get in?
Thanks
Larry
 
LarrySr. said:
Joe
If during your search if you have any extra time can you please tell me the a statute that actually states you have to tell a officer you have a firearm. That's so ridiculous to me. How in the world did that get in?
Thanks
Larry
Click to expand...
The person shall carry the permit together with valid identification whenever the person is carrying a concealed handgun, shall disclose to any law enforcement officer that the person holds a valid permit and is carrying a concealed handgun when approached or addressed by the officer, and shall display both the permit ...

GS 14-415.11 Permit to carry concealed handgun​


§ 14‑415.11. Permit to carry concealed handgun; scope of permit.

(a) Any person who has a concealed handgun permit may carry a concealed handgun unless otherwise specifically prohibited by law. The person shall carry the permit together with valid identification whenever the person is carrying a concealed handgun, shall disclose to any law enforcement officer that the person holds a valid permit and is carrying a concealed handgun when approached or addressed by the officer, and shall display both the permit and the proper identification upon the request of a law enforcement officer. In addition to these requirements, a military permittee whose permit has expired during deployment may carry a concealed handgun during the 90 days following the end of deployment and before the permit is renewed provided the permittee also displays proof of deployment to any law enforcement officer.

(b) The sheriff shall issue a permit to carry a concealed handgun to a person who qualifies for a permit under G.S. 14‑415.12. The permit shall be valid throughout the State for a period of five years from the date of issuance.

(c) Except as provided in G.S. 14‑415.27, a permit does not authorize a person to carry a concealed handgun in any of the following:

(1) Areas prohibited by G.S. 14‑269.2, except as allowed under G.S. 14‑269.2(k1).

(1a) Areas prohibited by G.S. 14‑269.3 and G.S. 14‑277.2.

(2) Areas prohibited by G.S. 14‑269.4, except as allowed under G.S. 14‑269.4(6).

(3) In an area prohibited by rule adopted under G.S. 120‑32.1.

(4) In any area prohibited by 18 U.S.C. § 922 or any other federal law.

(5) In a law enforcement or correctional facility.

(6) In a building housing only State or federal offices.

(7) In an office of the State or federal government that is not located in a building exclusively occupied by the State or federal government.

(8) On any private premises where notice that carrying a concealed handgun is prohibited by the posting of a conspicuous notice or statement by the person in legal possession or control of the premises.

(c1) Any person who has a concealed handgun permit may carry a concealed handgun on the grounds or waters of a park within the State Parks System as defined in G.S. 143B‑135.44.

(c2) It shall be unlawful for a person, with or without a permit, to carry a concealed handgun while consuming alcohol or at any time while the person has remaining in the person's body any alcohol or in the person's blood a controlled substance previously consumed, but a person does not violate this condition if a controlled substance in the person's blood was lawfully obtained and taken in therapeutically appropriate amounts or if the person is on the person's own property.

(c3) As provided in G.S. 14‑269.4(5), it shall be lawful for a person to carry any firearm openly, or to carry a concealed handgun with a concealed carry permit, at any State‑owned rest area, at any State‑owned rest stop along the highways, and at any State‑owned hunting and fishing reservation.

(d) A person who is issued a permit shall notify the sheriff who issued the permit of any change in the person's permanent address within 30 days after the change of address. If a permit is lost or destroyed, the person to whom the permit was issued shall notify the sheriff who issued the permit of the loss or destruction of the permit. A person may obtain a duplicate permit by submitting to the sheriff a notarized statement that the permit was lost or destroyed and paying the required duplicate permit fee. (1995, c. 398, s. 1; c. 507, s. 22.1(c); c. 509, s. 135.3(e); 1997, c. 238, s. 6; 2000‑140, s. 103; 2000‑191, s. 5; 2005‑232, s. 3; 2011‑268, s. 14; 2015‑241, s. 14.30(cc); 2023‑8, s. 1(c).)
 
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JohnFreeman said:
They still using teletype or was this just a reference to how it was back in the day?
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John
This was in my older days. I'm sure technology has moved on from teletypes. It did we me to .lol

What ever returns the status of the firearm will be used to document. Any time you check anything through the system, even people. Remember your using equipment and methods that access people personnel and private information. If improperly used it will get you is some serious trouble. Including but not limited to jail.
 
fieldgrade said:
The person shall carry the permit together with valid identification whenever the person is carrying a concealed handgun, shall disclose to any law enforcement officer that the person holds a valid permit and is carrying a concealed handgun when approached or addressed by the officer, and shall display both the permit ...

GS 14-415.11 Permit to carry concealed handgun​


§ 14‑415.11. Permit to carry concealed handgun; scope of permit.

(a) Any person who has a concealed handgun permit may carry a concealed handgun unless otherwise specifically prohibited by law. The person shall carry the permit together with valid identification whenever the person is carrying a concealed handgun, shall disclose to any law enforcement officer that the person holds a valid permit and is carrying a concealed handgun when approached or addressed by the officer, and shall display both the permit and the proper identification upon the request of a law enforcement officer. In addition to these requirements, a military permittee whose permit has expired during deployment may carry a concealed handgun during the 90 days following the end of deployment and before the permit is renewed provided the permittee also displays proof of deployment to any law enforcement officer.

(b) The sheriff shall issue a permit to carry a concealed handgun to a person who qualifies for a permit under G.S. 14‑415.12. The permit shall be valid throughout the State for a period of five years from the date of issuance.

(c) Except as provided in G.S. 14‑415.27, a permit does not authorize a person to carry a concealed handgun in any of the following:

(1) Areas prohibited by G.S. 14‑269.2, except as allowed under G.S. 14‑269.2(k1).

(1a) Areas prohibited by G.S. 14‑269.3 and G.S. 14‑277.2.

(2) Areas prohibited by G.S. 14‑269.4, except as allowed under G.S. 14‑269.4(6).

(3) In an area prohibited by rule adopted under G.S. 120‑32.1.

(4) In any area prohibited by 18 U.S.C. § 922 or any other federal law.

(5) In a law enforcement or correctional facility.

(6) In a building housing only State or federal offices.

(7) In an office of the State or federal government that is not located in a building exclusively occupied by the State or federal government.

(8) On any private premises where notice that carrying a concealed handgun is prohibited by the posting of a conspicuous notice or statement by the person in legal possession or control of the premises.

(c1) Any person who has a concealed handgun permit may carry a concealed handgun on the grounds or waters of a park within the State Parks System as defined in G.S. 143B‑135.44.

(c2) It shall be unlawful for a person, with or without a permit, to carry a concealed handgun while consuming alcohol or at any time while the person has remaining in the person's body any alcohol or in the person's blood a controlled substance previously consumed, but a person does not violate this condition if a controlled substance in the person's blood was lawfully obtained and taken in therapeutically appropriate amounts or if the person is on the person's own property.

(c3) As provided in G.S. 14‑269.4(5), it shall be lawful for a person to carry any firearm openly, or to carry a concealed handgun with a concealed carry permit, at any State‑owned rest area, at any State‑owned rest stop along the highways, and at any State‑owned hunting and fishing reservation.

(d) A person who is issued a permit shall notify the sheriff who issued the permit of any change in the person's permanent address within 30 days after the change of address. If a permit is lost or destroyed, the person to whom the permit was issued shall notify the sheriff who issued the permit of the loss or destruction of the permit. A person may obtain a duplicate permit by submitting to the sheriff a notarized statement that the permit was lost or destroyed and paying the required duplicate permit fee. (1995, c. 398, s. 1; c. 507, s. 22.1(c); c. 509, s. 135.3(e); 1997, c. 238, s. 6; 2000‑140, s. 103; 2000‑191, s. 5; 2005‑232, s. 3; 2011‑268, s. 14; 2015‑241, s. 14.30(cc); 2023‑8, s. 1(c).)
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Thank you.
Did I miss something
I still don't see where it says if I'm in a conveyance and my gun is in the glove box or the consul or in the trunk you have to tell him. Or tell him you have a permit and even if you have a permit and it's noted on you license it's still not necessary.
It appears, just being the devils advocate you must be wearing the gun for the to apply.
 
LarrySr. said:
Thank you.
Did I miss something
I still don't see where it says if I'm in a conveyance and my gun is in the glove box or the consul or in the trunk you have to tell him. Or tell him you have a permit and even if you have a permit and it's noted on you license it's still not necessary.
It appears, just being the devils advocate you must be wearing the gun for the to apply.
Click to expand...
First, let me say, we’ve been debating NC firearms statutes for longer than the twelve years I’ve participated in this community. A lot of astute and knowledgeable members have hashed it out, ad nauseam.

The operative term in the statute appears to be *concealed*, and if you have a *concealed* handgun permit,

and they have pulled you over, they have run your tag and license, and unless I am mistaken, they already know that you are a CHP holder. Glove box I do believe is *concealed*, trunk I guess likewise, not sure on that.

If you want to slice and dice the statute with the LEO on the side of the road, or with the assistant district attorney in court, that’s fine.

Personally, I ain't got time for that. I hand them my NCDL, and my CHP together. They may or may not ask where the gun is, but usually not, and they usually hand the NCDL and CHP right back with a "thank you", unless they have continuing business with me.

And be on my way.
 
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I do like your idea.

Personally, I ain't got time for that. I hand them my NCDL, and my CHP together. They may or may not ask where the gun is, but usually not, and they usually hand the NCDL and CHP right back with a "thank you", unless they have continuing business with me.

And be on my way.

Thanks for the feedback.
I was curious and because we do go over to North Carolina (And always armed) often from Tennessee and there seems to be a considerable difference when it comes to firearms laws.
 
fieldgrade said:
First, let me say, we’ve been debating NC firearms statutes for longer than the twelve years I’ve participated in this community. A lot of astute and knowledgeable members have hashed it out, ad nauseam.

The operative term in the statute appears to be *concealed*, and if you have a *concealed* handgun permit,

and they have pulled you over, they have run your tag and license, and unless I am mistaken, they already know that you are a CHP holder. Glove box I do believe is *concealed*, trunk I guess likewise, not sure on that.

If you want to slice and dice the statute with the LEO on the side of the road, or with the assistant district attorney in court, that’s fine.

Personally, I ain't got time for that. I hand them my NCDL, and my CHP together. They may or may not ask where the gun is, but usually not, and they usually hand the NCDL and CHP right back with a "thank you", unless they have continuing business with me.

And be on my way.
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I found out not too long ago that the CWP, that's what we call it, does not show up when pulled over. I don't know who to believe anymore.
 
Brawny said:
I found out not too long ago that the CWP, that's what we call it, does not show up when pulled over. I don't know who to believe anymore.
Click to expand...
My reference was to NC. And even that has been debated.
 
fieldgrade said:
First, let me say, we’ve been debating NC firearms statutes for longer than the twelve years I’ve participated in this community. A lot of astute and knowledgeable members have hashed it out, ad nauseam.

The operative term in the statute appears to be *concealed*, and if you have a *concealed* handgun permit,

and they have pulled you over, they have run your tag and license, and unless I am mistaken, they already know that you are a CHP holder. Glove box I do believe is *concealed*, trunk I guess likewise, not sure on that.

If you want to slice and dice the statute with the LEO on the side of the road, or with the assistant district attorney in court, that’s fine.

Personally, I ain't got time for that. I hand them my NCDL, and my CHP together. They may or may not ask where the gun is, but usually not, and they usually hand the NCDL and CHP right back with a "thank you", unless they have continuing business with me.

And be on my way.
Click to expand...
So if you are in a car that doesn't change the fact that you are most certainly being "approached" by an officer. That's it right there.
 
HandyDave said:
Only time I've ever had an officer decide to run my firearm in a traffic stop it came back stolen. I bought it from my dad with papers and he bought it at greensboro gunshow with proper check and papers. I carried that cobalt blue titanium 7 shot 357mag taurus for 3 years before that stop. I had spend weekend in jail until court that following Monday. My dad came to court with his paperwork of buying the revolver from a dealer at gunshow and I had papers where we transfered it when I bought it from him. They let me go of course. But I still don't quite understand wtf happened. Like how did it not show up stolen way before I got it. It was supposed to have been stolen in Asheboro 2 years before I got it. But it does show that even buying from a licensed dealer when dealing atleast with used guns problems could still come up down the road. I've wondered many times if it was all bullshit and that back road deputy sheriff just wanted my beautiful wheelgun for his collection.
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I bought a gun several years ago from a Pawn Shop owned by a close friend. About a year later I was contacted by an investigator who told nevthe gun was stolen. Seems the original owner reported it stolen but didn’t have the serial number. A year later he happened to run across the serial numbers of the guns that were stolen and when entered in NCIC they goy a hit from the pawn shop who promptly showed it was sold to me. When I told the investigator I sold it to someone at a gun show and didn’t remember his name, the conversation and investigation ended right there.
 
LarrySr. said:
Thank you.
Did I miss something
I still don't see where it says if I'm in a conveyance and my gun is in the glove box or the consul or in the trunk you have to tell him. Or tell him you have a permit and even if you have a permit and it's noted on you license it's still not necessary.
It appears, just being the devils advocate you must be wearing the gun for the to apply.
Click to expand...

You have an interesting perspective that the weapon must be on the permit holder's person. I found nothing directly addressing that question in the history of the disclosure requirement in § 14‑415.11. However, I did find some potentially informative documents in the history of the general prohibition against concealed carry.

§ 14‑269. Carrying concealed weapons. (current law - last amended 2023)
(a) It shall be unlawful for any person willfully and intentionally to carry concealed about his or her person any ... deadly weapon ...

North Carolina General Assembly - 1879 Session Laws - Chapter 127 (the earliest concealed carry prohibition I could find)
Chapter 127 - An Act to Make the Carrying of Concealed Weapons a Misdemeanor. The General Assembly of North Carolina do enact:
Section 1. That it shall be unlawful for any person in this state, except when upon his own premises, to carry concealed about his person any ... deadly weapon ...
Section 4. Any person being off his own premises and having upon his person any deadly weapon ...

Note that the 1879 legislature explicitly recognized a difference between a weapon being "about" a person and being "upon" a person. Presumably, "about" can be on or near a person but "upon" involved personally carrying a weapon. Since the "about" language has been carried forward from 1879 to date, a strong case could be made that the concealed carry prohibition applies to weapons near, around, or readily accessible to a person, and not just weapons being personally carried.
 
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For those interested in the history of North Carolina's laws, https://www.carolana.com/ is an incredible resource.

The site contains legislative documents, including copies of Session Laws from 1777 to 2020 and compilations of General Statutes from the late 1800s.

While the North Carolina legislature's website contains similar information, it is often much harder to find under several layers of sub-menus or folders.
 
fieldgrade said:
First, let me say, we’ve been debating NC firearms statutes for longer than the twelve years I’ve participated in this community. A lot of astute and knowledgeable members have hashed it out, ad nauseam.

The operative term in the statute appears to be *concealed*, and if you have a *concealed* handgun permit,

and they have pulled you over, they have run your tag and license, and unless I am mistaken, they already know that you are a CHP holder. Glove box I do believe is *concealed*, trunk I guess likewise, not sure on that.

If you want to slice and dice the statute with the LEO on the side of the road, or with the assistant district attorney in court, that’s fine.

Personally, I ain't got time for that. I hand them my NCDL, and my CHP together. They may or may not ask where the gun is, but usually not, and they usually hand the NCDL and CHP right back with a "thank you", unless they have continuing business with me.

And be on my way.
Click to expand...
I’d just add, if you read the firearm statute in its entirety there is talk about “concealed and accessible” though there isn’t necessarily further definition of the accessible term.

CHP and its benefits are just exceptions to the gun laws, and so I think (but no attorney here) that there are some assumed definitions and provisions such as “accessible” that are implied by the whole law but not typically covered in the relevant CHP text often quoted.

If you spend time trying to figure out how you can keep a rifle in a truck can it makes a bit more sense.
 
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This is so everyone involved can just make it up as they go along as needed.


Mathieu18 said:
I’d just add, if you read the firearm statute in its entirety there is talk about “concealed and accessible” though there isn’t necessarily further definition of the accessible term.
Click to expand...
 
Mathieu18 said:
I’d just add, if you read the firearm statute in its entirety there is talk about “concealed and accessible” though there isn’t necessarily further definition of the accessible term.

CHP and its benefits are just exceptions to the gun laws, and so I think (but no attorney here) that there are some assumed definitions and provisions such as “accessible” that are implied by the whole law but not typically covered in the relevant CHP text often quoted.

If you spend time trying to figure out how you can keep a rifle in a truck can it makes a bit more sense.
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Please enlighten me, I've spent time trying to figure out how to keep a rifle in a compact SUV and I feel dumber for trying. If you can make sense of it I'd sure like a clear answer.
 
Timfoilhat said:
Please enlighten me, I've spent time trying to figure out how to keep a rifle in a compact SUV and I feel dumber for trying. If you can make sense of it I'd sure like a clear answer.
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Ha, I’m not sure I have one, but make it “inaccessible” since leaving it out in the open is a terrible idea. I’d think behind the second row in a discrete container. Where that can get dicey is if LEO decides a back seat occupant is in a position to access it.

In my case I’m trusting the DuHa box where it’s full enclosed under the raising back seat.
 
Mathieu18 said:
I’d just add, if you read the firearm statute in its entirety there is talk about “concealed and accessible” though there isn’t necessarily further definition of the accessible term.
Click to expand...

Could you please provide a link to "concealed and accessible" in the statutes. I could not find such a reference in Chapter 14 of the NC General Statutes, but it was in the Firearms Laws and Permits pamphlet (the original version of which was written by Roy Cooper) without any supporting statutory reference.
 
gc70 said:
Could you please provide a link to "concealed and accessible" in the statutes. I could not find such a reference in Chapter 14 of the NC General Statutes, but it was in the Firearms Laws and Permits pamphlet (the original version of which was written by Roy Cooper) without any supporting statutory reference.
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Seems a bit passive aggressive? But I think you’re right, the word accessible probably comes from the Firearms laws doc.

But :14-269 (a1) It shall be unlawful for any person willfully and intentionally to carry concealed about his or her person any pistol or gun except in the following circumstances:

It’s my belief the “accessible” language comes from “about his or her person” in the GC. Since the NC Sheriffs publish that pamphlet as well, one might think it informs their behavior if you have a concealed weapon. I’ll leave the accessible part up too you.
 
Mathieu18 said:
Seems a bit passive aggressive?
Click to expand...

I have been known to miss or overlook things, so I ask. But I also state that I have searched so I don't look like the type of lazy clown who asks without trying.

Mathieu18 said:
But :14-269 (a1) It shall be unlawful for any person willfully and intentionally to carry concealed about his or her person any pistol or gun except in the following circumstances:

It’s my belief the “accessible” language comes from “about his or her person” in the GC. Since the NC Sheriffs publish that pamphlet as well, one might think it informs their behavior if you have a concealed weapon. I’ll leave the accessible part up too you.
Click to expand...

I agree based on the history of the law as discussed in my post #100.
 
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gc70 said:
I have been known to miss or overlook things, so I ask. But I also state that I have searched so I don't look like the type of lazy clown who asks without trying.



I agree based on the history of the law as discussed in my post #100.
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Very valid, guess I’m defensive today for some reason (lack of sleep prob.)

At any rate, apologies.
 
Mathieu18 said:
Very valid, guess I’m defensive today for some reason (lack of sleep prob.)

At any rate, apologies.
Click to expand...

No offense taken and no apology needed. And you have been contributing substantially to what I believe is a robust discussion of a valuable topic.
 
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Agreed, it’s a valuable topic for gun owners. Often overlooked or at least not given enough weight is the fact that these laws often are intentionally somewhat gray. And so every individual risk tolerance needs to be factored into the interpretation and how it informs our actions.

In hindsight, it was probably the comment about the pamphlet put out by Cooper as AG that made me somewhat defensive. It’s true that it is not law, but if it starts to set the behavior of law-enforcement, trying to ignore it potentially leads to uncomfortable interactions with law-enforcement. So until I get a better definition of about my person, I tend towards avoiding both concealed and and accessible unless it is my CHP.
 
Mathieu18 said:
uncomfortable interactions with law-enforcement.
Click to expand...
This was my general thought when I initially started the thread. Whether there is or isn't an "actual gun registry". My worry was whether having a gun on me that I didn't actually purchase and transfer through an FFL would lead to an uncomfortable interaction with law enforcement.
 
Glock5857 said:
This was my general thought when I initially started the thread. Whether there is or isn't an "actual gun registry". My worry was whether having a gun on me that I didn't actually purchase and transfer through an FFL would lead to an uncomfortable interaction with law enforcement.
Click to expand...
And in that regard, I would not worry. There is not a registry of current ownership like say a car title. With the exception, if it happens to be stolen and you were not aware. Then it might get awkward.
 
LarrySr. said:
Thank you.
Did I miss something
I still don't see where it says if I'm in a conveyance and my gun is in the glove box or the consul or in the trunk you have to tell him. Or tell him you have a permit and even if you have a permit and it's noted on you license it's still not necessary.
It appears, just being the devils advocate you must be wearing the gun for the to apply.
Click to expand...

fieldgrade said:
First, let me say, we’ve been debating NC firearms statutes for longer than the twelve years I’ve participated in this community. A lot of astute and knowledgeable members have hashed it out, ad nauseam.

The operative term in the statute appears to be *concealed*, and if you have a *concealed* handgun permit,

and they have pulled you over, they have run your tag and license, and unless I am mistaken, they already know that you are a CHP holder. Glove box I do believe is *concealed*, trunk I guess likewise, not sure on that.

If you want to slice and dice the statute with the LEO on the side of the road, or with the assistant district attorney in court, that’s fine.

Personally, I ain't got time for that. I hand them my NCDL, and my CHP together. They may or may not ask where the gun is, but usually not, and they usually hand the NCDL and CHP right back with a "thank you", unless they have continuing business with me.

And be on my way.
Click to expand...
Sorry for being MIA. @LarrySr., the statute @fieldgrade referenced is the correct statute, stating "shall notify" LE. If I understand your follow-up, you are correct, it only deals with what is considered concealed. In NC it does not have to be located on your person. It can be in the vehicle and NC law is vague about what is considered concealed. The important terms in the concealed weapons statute are concealed and readily accessible. NC leaves that to the officer to articulate how it was "concealed" and "readily accessible". Two of the biggest factors are the firearm's location in the vehicle, and how it was secured. If it is a locked container and the keys are not in the lock, usually one can assume it is not readily accessible. Likewise, if it is in the trunk it is not readily accessible. Yet both of those scenarios have the weapon concealed. So the notification requirement will greatly depend if the weapon meets the concealed and readily accessible. The easiest way to look at it is if you have the handgun concealed and within easy access, I would disclose it to the officer even if it was locked in a closed container.

Now back to my comments in the earlier post. I have been advised, that they are correct and in NC an officer cannot take possession of the lawfully possessed handgun unless they have some other facts and circumstances that would lead a reasonable person to believe that the individual might be linked to a crime involving weapons or violence and it creates an officer safety issue. I am working on getting that in legal text to post. It is going to take a couple of days.
 
Average Joe said:
Sorry for being MIA. @LarrySr., the statute @fieldgrade referenced is the correct statute, stating "shall notify" LE. If I understand your follow-up, you are correct, it only deals with what is considered concealed. In NC it does not have to be located on your person. It can be in the vehicle and NC law is vague about what is considered concealed. The important terms in the concealed weapons statute are concealed and readily accessible. NC leaves that to the officer to articulate how it was "concealed" and "readily accessible". Two of the biggest factors are the firearm's location in the vehicle, and how it was secured. If it is a locked container and the keys are not in the lock, usually one can assume it is not readily accessible. Likewise, if it is in the trunk it is not readily accessible. Yet both of those scenarios have the weapon concealed. So the notification requirement will greatly depend if the weapon meets the concealed and readily accessible. The easiest way to look at it is if you have the handgun concealed and within easy access, I would disclose it to the officer even if it was locked in a closed container.

Now back to my comments in the earlier post. I have been advised, that they are correct and in NC an officer cannot take possession of the lawfully possessed handgun unless they have some other facts and circumstances that would lead a reasonable person to believe that the individual might be linked to a crime involving weapons or violence and it creates an officer safety issue. I am working on getting that in legal text to post. It is going to take a couple of days.
Click to expand...


Joe I do thank you and fieldgrade for the response. I understand now when you refer to North Carolina laws . Better understanding.

After saying that it doesn't mean that I don't think that NC is playing on purpose in the gray just to abuse 2A. ;) Way to much gray left to the officer and that will eventually be a mistake. Some of those requirements are very very close to allowing the officer to conduct an illegal search. I'm referring to routine traffic stops not a physical arrest.


:oops:The old saying "you can beat the rap but you can't beat the ride." To me it screwing with you.
Just one guys opinion.

Thanks again
Larry

PS Maybe you guys and gals can make that change come November with the state races.🤞
 
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