Q on SBR (5.56 w/22 conversion)

rdinatal

rdinatal

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Not that I'm going to do this but in the middle of the night my brain thought...

For a SBR you need to specify the caliber, right? So, is it legal to use a 22lr conversion in a SBR lower?
 
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rdinatal said:
Not that I'm going to do this but in the middle of the night my brain thought...

For a SBR you need to specify the caliber, right? So, is it legal to use a 22lr conversion in a SBR lower?
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You can put any caliber upper on it after it is registered. Swap them out all day long.
 
You need to specify a caliber you are building it as. After that you can change whenever you want and no, you do not need to be able to go back to the original configuration i.e. you dont have to keep the original upper.
 
wired said:
You need to specify a caliber you are building it as. After that you can change whenever you want and no, you do not need to be able to go back to the original configuration i.e. you dont have to keep the original upper.
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Why does everyone say you need to be able to put it back in the original configuration? Just a myth or is there some poorly worded part on the form 1 that people are misinterpreting?
 
barf said:
Why does everyone say you need to be able to put it back in the original configuration? Just a myth or is there some poorly worded part on the form 1 that people are misinterpreting?
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Who knows? Its one of those Fudd Lore myths that wont die up there with the ATF can enter your home at any time when you have a tax stamp.
 
barf said:
Why does everyone say you need to be able to put it back in the original configuration? Just a myth or is there some poorly worded part on the form 1 that people are misinterpreting?
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Combination of the two.

Mainly internet myth. But the Form 1 says:

Change of Description or Address: The registrant shall notify the National Firearms Act Division, National Service Center, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, 244 Needy Road, Martinsburg, WV 25405, in writing, of any change to the description of the firearm in item 4, or any change to the address of the registrant.

So some people interpret that to say if you can return it to the original, the description hasn’t actually changed.
 
…and the reason you specify a single caliber is that the making of a firearm is a one-time act. And at the time that firearm is made, it can only be a single caliber.
 
BigWaylon said:
Combination of the two.

Mainly internet myth. But the Form 1 says:

Change of Description or Address: The registrant shall notify the National Firearms Act Division, National Service Center, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, 244 Needy Road, Martinsburg, WV 25405, in writing, of any change to the description of the firearm in item 4, or any change to the address of the registrant.

So some people interpret that to say if you can return it to the original, the description hasn’t actually changed.
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Poor wording indeed. The form 1 is not the US code. Please correct me if Im wrong but that is just an ATF request not anything actually backed by law.
 
wired said:
Poor wording indeed. The form 1 is not the US code. Please correct me if Im wrong but that is just an ATF request not anything actually backed by law.
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That’s my understanding as well.

The ATF is required by law to keep the registry updated/accurate, so they ask…but there’s no corresponding law that requires the firearm owner to answer. 😁
 
Yep, ONE caliber for the form. I listed 2 calibers (at the advice of my dealer) way back when and they sent the form back for correction.
 
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Snal~ said:
Yep, ONE caliber for the form. I listed 2 calibers (at the advice of my dealer) way back when and they sent the form back for correction.
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In his defense…they used to accept that, as well as “multi”.
 
BigWaylon said:
File a Form 1 on that and let us know how it goes. 🤣
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Would that be a 2-stamper SBS and SBR??? This might need its own thread… how would you suppress it? Or maybe this would be a great prank to play on the NFA branch, watch an examiner’s head explode! [down the rabbit hole we go]
 
Jerzsubbie said:
Would that be a 2-stamper SBS and SBR??? This might need its own thread… how would you suppress it? Or maybe this would be a great prank to play on the NFA branch, watch an examiner’s head explode! [down the rabbit hole we go]
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Same thoughts here…

If you filed as an SBR, would you have to leave the .410 barrel 18”? And vice versa with a 16” rifle barrel?

I’m sure there’s a ruling on it somewhere, but I haven’t committed that one to memory.
 
My thoughts are it would be really hard to form 1 one of those . You couldn't do both on one form 1 and its going to flag on a trace . Thats going to be the sole time an ask the expert chat will come in handy.
 
I think you could form 1 either caliber, and changing ammo would be equivalent to changing an upper?
 
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It being a shotgun and a rifle complicates things
 
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barf said:
I think you could form 1 either caliber, and changing ammo would be equivalent to changing an upper?
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SBR ≠ SBS

Now…I’m assuming it’s not a rifled barrel that can shoot 45 as well?
 
Fred said:
Could you remove a barrel, SBR it(if the shotgun barrel is removed) and then reinstall the SG barrel?
If you do this and then remove the rifle barrel, have you created an illegal short barreled shotgun?

For that matter, if I can find a smoothbore shotgun upper for my AR15 SBR, is that legal to use, or is that an illegal short barreled shotgun?

I've never even thought about this stuff.
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atf defines a shotgun as:

The term “Shotgun” means a weapon designed or redesigned, made or remade, and intended to be fired from the shoulder, and designed or redesigned and made or remade to use the energy of the explosive in a fixed shotgun shell to fire through a smooth bore either a number of ball shot or a single projectile for each single pull of the trigger.

So if you removed the 22 barrel and installed a cut-down 410 barrel, I would think you have an unregistered SBS.

You can have a short-barreled smoothbore AR that isn’t considered a rifle, thus it can’t be an SBR. Somebody made one in the last couple years, but I don’t remember who. But if then based on the definition of shotgun, the caliber/cartridge that barrel is designed for might come into play.

But then you also have that weird category of SBRs that aren’t rifles, but are SBRs because they’re weapons made from a rifle. An example would be buying a complete AR-15 rifle and swapping the stock for a brace and installing a short upper. The firearm would look like an AR pistol, but would be considered an SBR.

Same would go for a shotgun if you remove the stock and put a short barrel on it. It would look like an AOW, but would be an SBS because it was a weapon made from a shotgun.
 
I can keep the definitions and concepts fairly clear in my mind until AOW comes into the conversation. Then I’m befuddled.
 
Gray said:
I can keep the definitions and concepts fairly clear in my mind until AOW comes into the conversation. Then I’m befuddled.
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The Weapon Made from a Rifle would cause your head to explode. That once a rifle always a rifle thing goes out the window.
 
Exactly!
 
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