Question about NC law when selling handguns (private sale)

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deadstock

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I was just wondering if NC law required a seller to keep a copy of a buyer’s CCW and NCDL when doing a private sale of a handgun or if just looking at them at the time of sale was all the law required? I’m a little bit confused when looking this up. Is there somewhere I can view the actual laws on this through the NC DOJ? The only info I could find on their site did not talk about private sales in depth. Thanks for the help
 
As a private seller you will not find anywhere in the statute where you are required to keep a copy of anything. Some private sellers keep pistol purchase permits because they are only good for one use, and FFLs are required to keep them. But not private sellers. When Roy Cooper was NC AG he wrote guidance that said private sellers “should” keep them, but not that they “must keep” them, probably because it’s just not in the statute.

* this advice is worth what you paid for it, and I am not an attorney.


North Carolina General Assembly

www.ncleg.gov www.ncleg.gov
 
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Google NC doj private gun sales. A pdf will come up. But I doesn't say you have to keep a BOS or you have to Keep a PPP.

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PATRICK D MASSEY said:
Google NC doj private gun sales. A pdf will come up. But I doesn't say you have to keep a BOS or you have to Keep a PPP.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
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And a lot of people confuse Roy’s “interpretations” in that guidance with the actual statues, so it is good that the OP is looking for statutes.

I think the one takeaway I have every time this topic comes up is that what we are looking for is not what is in the statute, but what is NOT in the statute.
 
deadstock said:
I was just wondering if NC law required a seller to keep a copy of a buyer’s CCW and NCDL when doing a private sale of a handgun or if just looking at them at the time of sale was all the law required? I’m a little bit confused when looking this up. Is there somewhere I can view the actual laws on this through the NC DOJ? The only info I could find on their site did not talk about private sales in depth. Thanks for the help
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No, you don't need a copy of anything. Are they an NC resident? Can they show you something to prove they are "allowed" to own a handgun?

If so, you are good to go. Anybody telling you that you need to retain any copies of anything or a bill of sale is full of shit. And those folks will be along shortly.
 
The NC statute does not explicitly require you (the seller) to copy, keep, or even to look at anything. It requires the buyer to have certain papers before receiving the item. The wording is weird. The confusion and debate comes from varying opinions on how much self-enforcement and groundwork for defense must be done before proceeding with a sale. Here, read it for yourself:

§ 14-402. Sale of certain weapons without permit forbidden.


(a) It is unlawful for any person, firm, or corporation in this State to sell, give away, or transfer, or to purchase or receive, at any place within this State from any other place within or without the State any pistol unless: (i) a license or permit is first obtained under this Article by the purchaser or receiver from the sheriff of the county in which the purchaser or receiver resides; or (ii) a valid North Carolina concealed handgun permit is held under Article 54B of this Chapter by the purchaser or receiver who must be a resident of the State at the time of the purchase.


It is unlawful for any person or persons to receive from any postmaster, postal clerk, employee in the parcel post department, rural mail carrier, express agent or employee, railroad agent or employee within the State of North Carolina any pistol without having in his or their possession and without exhibiting at the time of the delivery of the same and to the person delivering the same the permit from the sheriff as provided in G.S. 14-403. Any person violating the provisions of this section is guilty of a Class 2 misdemeanor.


(b) This section does not apply to an antique firearm or an historic edged weapon.
(c) The following definitions apply in this Article:
(1) Antique firearm. - Defined in G.S. 14-409.11.
(2), (3) Repealed by Session Laws 2011-56, s. 1, effective April 28, 2011.
(4) Historic edged weapon. - Defined in G.S. 14-409.12.
(5) through (7) Repealed by Session Laws 2011-56, s. 1, effective April 28, 2011. (1919, c. 197, s. 1; C.S., s. 5106; 1923, c. 106; 1947, c. 781; 1959, c. 1073, s. 2; 1971, c. 133, s. 2; 1979, c. 895, ss. 1, 2; 1993, c. 287, s. 1; c. 539, s. 284; 1994, Ex. Sess., c. 24, s. 14(c); 2004-183, s. 1; 2004-203, s. 1; 2009-6, s. 2; 2011-56, s. 1.)
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Some people do a nod and a hand shake and some will take it to an FFL because they're not sure. There's 100 answers to this and only a few of them are wrong.
 
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PATRICK D MASSEY said:
Google NC doj private gun sales. A pdf will come up. But I doesn't say you have to keep a BOS or you have to Keep a PPP.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
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A private sale is jut that, private. It’s no one’s business if it’s private.
 
yard mongrel said:
No, you don't need a copy of anything. Are they an NC resident? Can they show you something to prove they are "allowed" to own a handgun?

If so, you are good to go. Anybody telling you that you need to retain any copies of anything or a bill of sale is full of shit. And those folks will be along shortly.
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I always laugh when the ‘“Extremely grey law” says the seller should make sure the buyer is legal to own a firearm. Without a background check this would be literally impossible. I have been told by 2 lawyers that unless you have reliable knowledge a person is a convicted felon, etc., by asking if the buyer is legal to own a gun the seller has met his responsibility. Just passing along what I’ve been told.
 
Etruett said:
I always laugh when the ‘“Extremely grey law” says the seller should make sure the buyer is legal to own a firearm. Without a background check this would be literally impossible. I have been told by 2 lawyers that unless you have reliable knowledge a person is a convicted felon, etc., by asking if the buyer is legal to own a gun the seller has met his responsibility. Just passing along what I’ve been told.
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It doesn't say that, it says the buyer must have a one-time use permit or a concealed carry permit. If you don't see a permit, you have not met your responsibility.

Asking someone if they are legal to own a gun is like asking the suspect in a felony stop if he has a gun....both prove nothing.
 
Murtaugh said:
It doesn't say that, it says the buyer must have a one-time use permit or a concealed carry permit. If you don't see a permit, you have not met your responsibility.

Asking someone if they are legal to own a gun is like asking the suspect in a felony stop if he has a gun....both prove nothing.
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But that does not mean you need to copy the buyers permit, or write a BOS which I think what OP is asking

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Murtaugh said:
It doesn't say that, it says the buyer must have a one-time use permit or a concealed carry permit. If you don't see a permit, you have not met your responsibility.

Asking someone if they are legal to own a gun is like asking the suspect in a felony stop if he has a gun....both prove nothing.
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Couple different issues you’re covering here.

I do ask if the buyer is a prohibited person, and I ask because even if they lie I can honestly say that I made a diligent effort. Remember that the seller has an obligation not to sell to someone that they know is a prohibited person. Probably not worth much, but doesn’t cost anything either.

About the permit, the buyer must have one or a chp (in nc). I ask to see it and a drivers license. Compare name and addresses on the two, they must be the same, and confirm NC resident. Give everything back and finish the deal.

As a buyer I am sometimes asked to surrender the ppp to the seller. I typically refuse and in the alternative tear off the unique number from the form and give it to the seller. It has no identifying info, but it allows the police to find me through the seller. Of course that’s worth nothing, but it makes the seller happy and I don’t much care.

Bill of sale, I neither give nor recieve them.
 
JimB said:
Couple different issues you’re covering here.

I do ask if the buyer is a prohibited person, and I ask because even if they lie I can honestly say that I made a diligent effort. Remember that the seller has an obligation not to sell to someone that they know is a prohibited person. Probably not worth much, but doesn’t cost anything either.

About the permit, the buyer must have one or a chp (in nc). I ask to see it and a drivers license. Compare name and addresses on the two, they must be the same, and confirm NC resident. Give everything back and finish the deal.

As a buyer I am sometimes asked to surrender the ppp to the seller. I typically refuse and in the alternative tear off the unique number from the form and give it to the seller. It has no identifying info, but it allows the police to find me through the seller. Of course that’s worth nothing, but it makes the seller happy and I don’t much care.

Bill of sale, I neither give nor recieve them.
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I was not covering any of that extra stuff. That is your business. I just covered the "I ask if they are prohibited and I heard that is good enough" in the post I quoted. In NC that is not good enough. I don't think it means much in SC either.
 
Murtaugh said:
I was not covering any of that extra stuff. That is your business. I just covered the "I ask if they are prohibited and I heard that is good enough" in the post I quoted. In NC that is not good enough. I don't think it means much in SC either.
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Sorry, I was just trying to be complete for the OP. I think we’re saying the same thing, it is not enough to just ask the buyer, you must see their chp/ppp.
 
Etruett said:
I always laugh when the ‘“Extremely grey law” says the seller should make sure the buyer is legal to own a firearm. Without a background check this would be literally impossible. I have been told by 2 lawyers that unless you have reliable knowledge a person is a convicted felon, etc., by asking if the buyer is legal to own a gun the seller has met his responsibility. Just passing along what I’ve been told.
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Precisely what I do for long gun private sales.
 
Here's how a typical handgun sale goes in SC.

Seller: Can I see your SC drivers license ( only close enough to see its the buyer and a SC drivers license.). Also are.you a felon?

Buyer: wips out DL for a split second. Answers, "no".

Seller: Nice doing business with you. It doesn't like 115 grainers.
 
deadstock said:
I was just wondering if NC law required a seller to keep a copy of a buyer’s CCW and NCDL when doing a private sale of a handgun or if just looking at them at the time of sale was all the law required? I’m a little bit confused when looking this up. Is there somewhere I can view the actual laws on this through the NC DOJ? The only info I could find on their site did not talk about private sales in depth. Thanks for the help
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Here is the law: Article 52A. - Sale of Weapons in Certain Counties.

§ 14-402 covers the requirement for a permit or CHP.
§ 14-406 covers recordkeeping requirements for licensed dealers (FFLs).
There is no requirement in the law for keeping records of private sales.
 
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