I'm setting up an AR15 for use with NV. Currently it has a Strikefire Gen I on it, along with a 3x flip magnifier. I'm thinking I need more than 3x for my situation and have looked at some scopes today. Can you guys recc a 1-6x or 1-8x scope for this application?
Recc a Scope
- Thread starter JBB
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No go on the Burris. Not enough eye relief.
I like the Vortex that's on it. But just thought it may be wise to get more magnification.
No, not diving into the deep hole. Just the shallow pond. I bought a Sionyx Pro. Mounted it on an Ops Core bump. I like it. Added a Perst 4 to the rifle, along with a cheapo illuminator (FandyFire). And some backup IR on the helmet.
I like the Vortex that's on it. But just thought it may be wise to get more magnification.
No, not diving into the deep hole. Just the shallow pond. I bought a Sionyx Pro. Mounted it on an Ops Core bump. I like it. Added a Perst 4 to the rifle, along with a cheapo illuminator (FandyFire). And some backup IR on the helmet.
Any 1-8 I am aware of is going to have less eye relief than the Burris.
Was going to recommend the Viper PST 1-6x24. But it might not be any better than the Burris.
Was going to recommend the Viper PST 1-6x24. But it might not be any better than the Burris.
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Not sure what works with the Sionyx to be honest. If you're using a PVS-14 you have to get a "night vision compatible" scope. Which I suppose just means the illumination settings go low enough to work with a night vision device. You might not have to worry about that so much with the camera though.
If you have your camera on a helmet you'll probably need a REALLY high mount. I think my MRO mount is 2.33" or some such and that barely feels high enough.
If you have your camera on a helmet you'll probably need a REALLY high mount. I think my MRO mount is 2.33" or some such and that barely feels high enough.
I have the Sionyx mounted on the helmet. So yeah, I likely will need a higher mount. Which is one reason I was thinking about changing. I'd have to get a higher mount for the FTS magnifier and the Strikefire. I just mounted the Perst. And the DD flashlight mount should deliver today, so hoping to try out everything tonight or tomm night. But I feel sure I'll have to get higher mounts.
The Steiner does have a good eyebox. But it's only 1-4x. If I'm going to change, I want to go from the 3x I have with the magnifier to at least a 1-6x. The Burris RT-6 is listed at only 3.3". Not good. The PST Gen II is listed as 3.8". That is good. I've also considered the Whiskey5 1-5x but they're discontinued, so would have to get lucky and find one used. Or the Meopta Optica 1-6x is a possibility. I really like the reviews on the Razor HDe, but I it is long, heavy and a little over my price point, meaning I'd need to find one of those used as well. I'm concerned about weight with all the 'stuff' on this gun now, so I really don't want a heavy scope.
The Steiner does have a good eyebox. But it's only 1-4x. If I'm going to change, I want to go from the 3x I have with the magnifier to at least a 1-6x. The Burris RT-6 is listed at only 3.3". Not good. The PST Gen II is listed as 3.8". That is good. I've also considered the Whiskey5 1-5x but they're discontinued, so would have to get lucky and find one used. Or the Meopta Optica 1-6x is a possibility. I really like the reviews on the Razor HDe, but I it is long, heavy and a little over my price point, meaning I'd need to find one of those used as well. I'm concerned about weight with all the 'stuff' on this gun now, so I really don't want a heavy scope.
Question... what do you consider an acceptable weight for an AR15? One of the main reasons for considering another scope is weight savings. Pretty sure this is the heaviest AR I own. But I'm not sure how heavy is too heavy. Is there a practical limit on the overall weight?
Really? An optic and a magnifier (or a LPVO in lieu of both) -- plus a PERST -- on a dedicated night gun? Yikes.
If it were mine, I'd ditch any BUIS (if you haven't already), slap the Perst where the front sight usually goes, and drop an EXPS3 up top for passive targeting. (A holosun would do, as well, but I prefer the EXPS3's reticle under nods to the Holosun's, as the latter is entirely too bright for my liking.) i.e. No magnifier, no LPVO, and no irons on my dedicated night gun. My thinking is that at night, any shooting I'd need to do with nods sans illuminator/laser ... would leverage the EXPS3. If I needed to take more than a few shots like that, well, I probably wouldn't be using passive IR targeting capabilities via the EXPS3 for very long, in which case the Perst's IR laser comes into play. In the event that I had to use that firearm under white light (because, say, a big room was entered), I'd transition to the visible laser on the Perst -- since I'd already be accustomed to looking downrange at the target when using the IR laser. In a small lit room a la CQB, well, the visible laser works there or one can point and shoot -- the latter of which is less than ideal but at close range with a rifle or braced pistol, it's pretty reasonable. In the event that all three aiming mechanisms failed (highly unlikely, but crap happens), I'd transition to pistol ... and not be sticking around.
The thinking on the above is that, for the most part, night shots just aren't taken at terribly long ranges -- making a magnifier or LPVO dead weight, IMHO. For those shooters who DO shoot long range at night, they're usually in fixed positions with a night vision or thermal device mounted on the firearm (i.e. not their head) ... specifically to allow good cheek weld while taking those long ranges shots -- in which case the Perst and EXPS3 are dead weight on their guns set up for long range.
I guess I just don't advocate one gun trying to do everything, because it'll just end up doing it all in relatively mediocre fashion compared to dedicated long range night guns and dedicated 100yd or less night guns ... both of which would be set up different from day guns.
Surreal
P.S. Some people keep the BUIS. The trouble there is the height of the irons versus the height of the mount for the optic. Risers supporting the optic for night use need to be tall to support nods -- which creates problems for most standard BUIS use. Offsets are an option for BUIS, but when you've got a designator, illuminator, white light, and controls for all of that ... plus a holographic sight in play ... the clutter gets crazy quickly (as does the weight).
If it were mine, I'd ditch any BUIS (if you haven't already), slap the Perst where the front sight usually goes, and drop an EXPS3 up top for passive targeting. (A holosun would do, as well, but I prefer the EXPS3's reticle under nods to the Holosun's, as the latter is entirely too bright for my liking.) i.e. No magnifier, no LPVO, and no irons on my dedicated night gun. My thinking is that at night, any shooting I'd need to do with nods sans illuminator/laser ... would leverage the EXPS3. If I needed to take more than a few shots like that, well, I probably wouldn't be using passive IR targeting capabilities via the EXPS3 for very long, in which case the Perst's IR laser comes into play. In the event that I had to use that firearm under white light (because, say, a big room was entered), I'd transition to the visible laser on the Perst -- since I'd already be accustomed to looking downrange at the target when using the IR laser. In a small lit room a la CQB, well, the visible laser works there or one can point and shoot -- the latter of which is less than ideal but at close range with a rifle or braced pistol, it's pretty reasonable. In the event that all three aiming mechanisms failed (highly unlikely, but crap happens), I'd transition to pistol ... and not be sticking around.
The thinking on the above is that, for the most part, night shots just aren't taken at terribly long ranges -- making a magnifier or LPVO dead weight, IMHO. For those shooters who DO shoot long range at night, they're usually in fixed positions with a night vision or thermal device mounted on the firearm (i.e. not their head) ... specifically to allow good cheek weld while taking those long ranges shots -- in which case the Perst and EXPS3 are dead weight on their guns set up for long range.
I guess I just don't advocate one gun trying to do everything, because it'll just end up doing it all in relatively mediocre fashion compared to dedicated long range night guns and dedicated 100yd or less night guns ... both of which would be set up different from day guns.
Surreal
P.S. Some people keep the BUIS. The trouble there is the height of the irons versus the height of the mount for the optic. Risers supporting the optic for night use need to be tall to support nods -- which creates problems for most standard BUIS use. Offsets are an option for BUIS, but when you've got a designator, illuminator, white light, and controls for all of that ... plus a holographic sight in play ... the clutter gets crazy quickly (as does the weight).
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So what is reasonable for total weight?
I like what I have, but it is heavy. In my situation, I have the potential to need 150-200 yard shots. So the 3x magnifier probably would be OK for that distance. But a 1-6x would be better. And if I can shave some weight by switching to a 1-6x, then it's worth looking into. Most of my other semi auto guns have red dots on them. I'd like to get another LPVO anyway, just due to that.
I like what I have, but it is heavy. In my situation, I have the potential to need 150-200 yard shots. So the 3x magnifier probably would be OK for that distance. But a 1-6x would be better. And if I can shave some weight by switching to a 1-6x, then it's worth looking into. Most of my other semi auto guns have red dots on them. I'd like to get another LPVO anyway, just due to that.
Lightest 1-6 you are going to find with a big eyebox is likely around 17oz and it is going to be expensive. Kahles/swarovski comes to mind. I believe some of the Luepold 1-6 can be had under 17oz.
Editr: have to add mount weight as well. 5-7 oz
Editr: have to add mount weight as well. 5-7 oz
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Total weight of my Strikefire with mount and battery, plus the magnifier and FTS mount, is 23.7 oz. So I would only be saving at best around 6oz to change (if choosing a 17 oz LPVO). And only a couple ounces if I went with the Vortex PST or Razor HDe. Also, I'm not so sure removing weight towards the rear is not going to hurt instead of help. It will make the gun unbalanced/more muzzle heavy.
I don't use NV, so I can't speak to that aspect in any manner.
This isn't a horrible deal on a good scope with good glass (I owned one previously):
www.eurooptic.com
This isn't a horrible deal on a good scope with good glass (I owned one previously):
Vortex Viper PST Gen II 1-6x24 VMR-2 MRAD Like New Demo Scope PST-1607
Like New Demo Vortex Viper PST Gen II 1-6x24 at Eurooptic.com. Vortex Viper PST riflescope offers top-tier performance in a riflescope designed and built to the standards precision tactical shooters request. Shop Vortex rifle Scope online. SHIPS FREE!
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I've narrowed my choices to these:
*Used Razor HDe Gen II1-6x24 $1400 new (hopefully at or under $1000 used, depending on what I can find)/10.1" long/21.5 oz + lightweight mount/4.0" eye relief
......... (note: the original is the same as the 'E', except they lightened the turret components in the e to lose some weight. I've seen it listed as 13.1" long but not sure why. It has always ...................been 10.1" per Vortex. Battery life is a big concern with this one.
*Used Leupold VX6HD 1-6x24- $1400 new (should be under $1000 used)/11.2" long may be too long for my application/13.4 oz + lightweight mount/3.7" eye relief/has Motion On
*Used Nightforce NX8 1-8x24- $1750 new (not sure what I could find one used for, but clearly it will cost more even used)/8.75" long would be perfect/17.0 oz + lightweight mount/3.7" ...........................eye relief
*Used Whiskey5 1-5x24- Discontinued, so it would have to be used, but unsure if I can find one/10.5" long/17.2 or 18.0 oz (I've seen both numbers) + lightweight mount/4.0" eye relief
I've also thought about just throwing a Strike Eagle on there to give it a try, before sinking more serious money into a scope that may or may not work for me. I can always use the Strike Eagle on something else.
I also liked the Steiner P4xi until I saw a 10 hour battery life spec. No way. Weight is good at 17.3oz. Length was good at 10.0". But the eye relief was only 3.5" and light transmission was 90%. Although I will say I have given up trying to compare light transmission numbers. There is no industry standard way they measure, which is hard to imagine. So there is no way to know how good it might be at dusk for hunting or with NV. I would guess the companies with more inferior products won't agree to a standard, so they can then make their products sound better than they actually are by using less stringent testing methods. Smart on their part maybe, but bad for us consumers.
I
*Used Razor HDe Gen II1-6x24 $1400 new (hopefully at or under $1000 used, depending on what I can find)/10.1" long/21.5 oz + lightweight mount/4.0" eye relief
......... (note: the original is the same as the 'E', except they lightened the turret components in the e to lose some weight. I've seen it listed as 13.1" long but not sure why. It has always ...................been 10.1" per Vortex. Battery life is a big concern with this one.
*Used Leupold VX6HD 1-6x24- $1400 new (should be under $1000 used)/11.2" long may be too long for my application/13.4 oz + lightweight mount/3.7" eye relief/has Motion On
*Used Nightforce NX8 1-8x24- $1750 new (not sure what I could find one used for, but clearly it will cost more even used)/8.75" long would be perfect/17.0 oz + lightweight mount/3.7" ...........................eye relief
*Used Whiskey5 1-5x24- Discontinued, so it would have to be used, but unsure if I can find one/10.5" long/17.2 or 18.0 oz (I've seen both numbers) + lightweight mount/4.0" eye relief
I've also thought about just throwing a Strike Eagle on there to give it a try, before sinking more serious money into a scope that may or may not work for me. I can always use the Strike Eagle on something else.
I also liked the Steiner P4xi until I saw a 10 hour battery life spec. No way. Weight is good at 17.3oz. Length was good at 10.0". But the eye relief was only 3.5" and light transmission was 90%. Although I will say I have given up trying to compare light transmission numbers. There is no industry standard way they measure, which is hard to imagine. So there is no way to know how good it might be at dusk for hunting or with NV. I would guess the companies with more inferior products won't agree to a standard, so they can then make their products sound better than they actually are by using less stringent testing methods. Smart on their part maybe, but bad for us consumers.
I
For the price, the PST Gen 2 above is the best value IMO. Having owned the SE, the 1-6 heavier Vortex Razor, the PST Gen 2, and used the NX8 (tight eye box)...
$500 for the PST Gen 2 is the easy button in bang for the buck.
For an AR15, you don't need the same level of glass precision as you would a bolt gun at distance. The glass on the PST G2 is fantastic for the $.
Wishing you the best.
$500 for the PST Gen 2 is the easy button in bang for the buck.
For an AR15, you don't need the same level of glass precision as you would a bolt gun at distance. The glass on the PST G2 is fantastic for the $.
Wishing you the best.
The weight is what's pushing me away from the PST Gen II. I really really don't want anything that is going to add weight to this gun. I am considering the Razor HDe, but even it is an ounce lighter than the PST. The PST Gen II is the second heaviest of all the scopes I looked at:
Burris XTR II 24.4oz
PST Gen II 22.7oz
Razor HDe II 21.5 oz
Meopta Optica 1-6 20.4oz
Riton 1-8x 19.3oz
Athalon Cronus BTR II 19.0oz
Delta Stryker 17.8oz
Strike Eagle 1-8x 17.6oz
Steiner P4xi 1-4x 17.3oz
Whiskey5 1-5x 17.2oz
Nightforce NX8 17.0oz
Athlon Argos BTR 16.1oz
Trijicon Accupoint 14.0oz
Leupold VX6HD 13.4oz
Burris XTR II 24.4oz
PST Gen II 22.7oz
Razor HDe II 21.5 oz
Meopta Optica 1-6 20.4oz
Riton 1-8x 19.3oz
Athalon Cronus BTR II 19.0oz
Delta Stryker 17.8oz
Strike Eagle 1-8x 17.6oz
Steiner P4xi 1-4x 17.3oz
Whiskey5 1-5x 17.2oz
Nightforce NX8 17.0oz
Athlon Argos BTR 16.1oz
Trijicon Accupoint 14.0oz
Leupold VX6HD 13.4oz
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