replace oil pan, repair oil plug or other?

Jayne

Jayne

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The wife's kia soul, which has only been dealer serviced, is leaking out of the oil drain plug. You can see some lovely sealant they tried to use to make it stop.

My new-to-me Jeep Patriot.... same deal. Now that I've had it long enough to drive around it's clear it's leaking from the drain plug. It's so tight I can't even get the plug loose with the normal 3/8" drive length driver. I wanted to see if it was just loose from the oil change the dealer did, but nope, it's not.

Replace the oil pans, try one of the repair kits or do something else?

The Jeep looks pretty easy to replace the pan, don't even have to jack it up to do the job.

The Kia I've not looked at but I won't do it anyway because I don't work on the wife's car at all so I'll have whichever makes more sense done at the local (expensive) shop.

I've never used one of the repair kits, but it doesn't look too complicated. Just doubles the number of failure points going forward.
 
Timfoilhat said:
Lots of cars use crush washers on the oil pan drain bolt. Any chance they just didn't change that?
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It's possible, but the Jeep appears to have a large washer there. Mostly I want to prep for whatever I'm going to do so that when I do the next oil change if it's really unusable I'm ready (vs. having the vehicle disabled because I can't put any oil in).
 
The repair kits are a desperate hail Mary, in my experience. They cost very little, and can't hurt anything to try, but I wouldn't expect them to solve all your problems.

Replacing the oil pan and doing your own oil changes from now on is the most reliable way forward. I had to do this to a car once. Or, I should say I had to have someone else do it since one row of oil pan bolts was behind the exhaust.
 
Most oil plug bolts are a very soft steel so they’ll fail before the pan. Have a new factory bolt in hand. Sometimes you’ll have to use a tap to clean the threads up if the new bolt doesn’t go in easily using just your fingers.
There are oversized bolts available, same thread pitch, yet they cut away a bit of the pan to have fresh threads.
If you have to chase/cut into the threads, drain all the oil, go do something else for an hour. Jack the car so it stops dripping, clean the residual oil, inspect the pan’s threads. Smear grease into the grooves of the tap to trap the metal particles. Run the tap in a bit, MAKE SURE you keep it straight with the hole, pull it out, clean it, apply new grease, lather, rinse, repeat until it’s pretty friction free. If the pan is steel, run a small, clean magnet in the hole. DO NOT over torque the new bolt, it’s soft.
 
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As said most modern cars use a crush washer or o-ring and a softer plug than pan. Most lube techs won't change anything unless the plug rounds off. Get a new plug with washer/gasket/o-ring they usually come with. If the mating surface on the pan is damaged smooth it out. Worst case you have the same drip until the next change, but most of the time it's cured. Changing pans isn't usually awful, but I would never jump to it.
 
Get Off My Lawn said:
Most oil plug bolts are a very soft steel so they’ll fail before the pan. Have a new factory bolt in hand. Sometimes you’ll have to use a tap to clean the threads up if the new bolt doesn’t go in easily using just your fingers.
There are oversized bolts available, same thread pitch, yet they cut away a bit of the pan to have fresh threads.
If you have to chase/cut into the threads, drain all the oil, go do something else for an hour. Jack the car so it stops dripping, clean the residual oil, inspect the pan’s threads. Smear grease into the grooves of the tap to trap the metal particles. Run the tap in a bit, MAKE SURE you keep it straight with the hole, pull it out, clean it, apply new grease, lather, rinse, repeat until it’s pretty friction free. If the pan is steel, run a small, clean magnet in the hole. DO NOT over torque the new bolt, it’s soft.
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^^^^ This.
 
OK, so I'm going to try a new plug and washer first on mine.

The wife can just complain to the kia guys next time she's at the dealership for a service. :)

Someone in real life mentioned those pumps that pull the ATF out of the dipstick. Looks like those might exist to extract oil out of the dipstick as well? Would make things a whole lot cleaner and I could reuse the oil that's only got 1k miles on it instead of dumping it and adding new.
 
Jayne said:
OK, so I'm going to try a new plug and washer first on mine.

The wife can just complain to the kia guys next time she's at the dealership for a service. :)

Someone in real life mentioned those pumps that pull the ATF out of the dipstick. Looks like those might exist to extract oil out of the dipstick as well? Would make things a whole lot cleaner and I could reuse the oil that's only got 1k miles on it instead of dumping it and adding new.
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Seal a shop vac to the fill tube. Pull and replace the plug.
 
+1 on running the tap to chase the threads. New plug should be good to go with gasket or washer.
 
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My wife took a car to Walmart several years ago for an oil change. 2 days later, big oil puddle in the driveway. I put it up on the ramps to see what was up. They had stripped the threads on the pan and the plug was basically being held in by the RTV they put on it try to stop the leak.

They denied it at first and said the red RTV was a "security seal" so they could see if anyone had "tampered" with it.

They ended up paying over $400 for a new pan at a repair shop of our choosing
 
1075tech said:
My wife took a car to Walmart several years ago for an oil change. 2 days later, big oil puddle in the driveway. I put it up on the ramps to see what was up. They had stripped the threads on the pan and the plug was basically being held in by the RTV they put on it try to stop the leak.

They denied it at first and said the red RTV was a "security seal" so they could see if anyone had "tampered" with it.

They ended up paying over $400 for a new pan at a repair shop of our choosing
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I know there's a bunch of people that know squat about cars, but you'd think that they'd not try to lie about it if someone came in mad as a hornet and describing exactly what the problem was that they created. There's more than a few people out there that know their way around a set of wrenches even if they choose not to use them.
I had a quick change guy break the wiper arm off the rear of my suv. I noticed immediately after my wife got home. I drove over there and asked the manager about it. He played dumb. I asked him to check the trash cans in the shop. He came back with the wiper arm in one hand and apologized. Asked me to return in a week so he could order parts to replace it.
 
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I had a small drip from the drain plug in my wife's car a few years ago. Tried a new washer, didn't do it. Tried a new plug and washer, that didn't work either. Tried the oversized plug that cut new threads, that didn't stop it. Finally off to the shop for a new oil pan and a clean garage floor. Hasn't lost a drop since.
 
LeeMajors said:
Buy a fumoto valve for it. No more plugs to deal with.
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Fumoto valve - I did this on my s-10 and it has worked great ever since. Seal it in place with whatever will work best - you’ll never have to remove it again.

I had a Honda accord that kept getting a leak at the plug even tho I used a new plug and washer. Turned out it had a hairline crack in the pan at the plug. So I replaced the pan.
 
LeeMajors said:
Buy a fumoto valve for it. No more plugs to deal with.
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DangerRuss said:
Fumoto valve - I did this on my s-10 and it has worked great ever since. Seal it in place with whatever will work best - you’ll never have to remove it again.
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I’m digging this thing. I looked around the internet for what I expected to be dozens of mechanics advising against it but that’s not what I found. Actual users seem to like them.

Draining straight into the jug I’m taking to the dump? Oh yea, I’m sold.
 
Frack N Cylons said:
I’m digging this thing. I looked around the internet for what I expected to be dozens of mechanics advising against it but that’s not what I found. Actual users seem to like them.

Draining straight into the jug I’m taking to the dump? Oh yea, I’m sold.
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I'm concerned about driving over a trash bag/road debris opening the valve and losing an engine. Nifty idea, but I'll continue to turn a wrench.
 
Drain plug threads stripped in the cast aluminum oil pan on the 2004 Mazda pickup I used to own. The shop I use recommended installing a Helicoil insert. I figured it was worth a try and had them do it (oil pan in situ). It was fine, never leaked, no problems of any sort. I owned the truck for a couple more years, no problems. I’d do it again.
 
Get Off My Lawn said:
I'm concerned about driving over a trash bag/road debris opening the valve and losing an engine. Nifty idea, but I'll continue to turn a wrench.
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Agree that is a concern, I’m still thinking on this one. They do have a lock for it.

The car I would be putting this on has a fairly sturdy plastic skirt that covers the entire bottom of the engine so it feels like it would pretty safe on that car.
 
Frack N Cylons said:
Agree that is a concern, I’m still thinking on this one. They do have a lock for it.

The car I would be putting this on has a fairly sturdy plastic skirt that covers the entire bottom of the engine so it feels like it would pretty safe on that car.
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Then I wouldn’t worth much about it.
 
I've
Frack N Cylons said:
I’m digging this thing. I looked around the internet for what I expected to be dozens of mechanics advising against it but that’s not what I found. Actual users seem to like them.

Draining straight into the jug I’m taking to the dump? Oh yea, I’m sold.
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Get Off My Lawn said:
I'm concerned about driving over a trash bag/road debris opening the valve and losing an engine. Nifty idea, but I'll continue to turn a wrench.
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Frack N Cylons said:
Agree that is a concern, I’m still thinking on this one. They do have a lock for it.

The car I would be putting this on has a fairly sturdy plastic skirt that covers the entire bottom of the engine so it feels like it would pretty safe on that car.
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put these on every vehicle I've had since the late 90s. There's a clip lock that has to be pulled out then a deliberate push up then turn the valve.
 
Start simple and inexpensive first. This isn't rocket science here.

First thing I'd do is my own oil change, that way I could inspect the drain and drain plug first hand.

If there's no apparent damage to the drain pan hole, then replace the crush washer/drain plug. Not every vehicle is the same. My youngest daughter's Edge has a rubber washer on the drain plug, for example. Most of the other vehicles we have is a drain plug with a crush washer.

If there's damage to the drain hole, then try a repair kit. They're not that expensive ($30 to $40).

And finally, replace the oil pan/gasket.


Whatever path you choose, the first thing you need to do is pull the drain plugs and inspect the damage. You can't know which path is best until you do.
 
Timfoilhat said:
I know there's a bunch of people that know squat about cars, but you'd think that they'd not try to lie about it if someone came in mad as a hornet and describing exactly what the problem was that they created. There's more than a few people out there that know their way around a set of wrenches even if they choose not to use them.
I had a quick change guy break the wiper arm off the rear of my suv. I noticed immediately after my wife got home. I drove over there and asked the manager about it. He played dumb. I asked him to check the trash cans in the shop. He came back with the wiper arm in one hand and apologized. Asked me to return in a week so he could order parts to replace it.
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Businesses often think refusal to take ownership of their workmanship issues is the less expensive way to go about resolving such problems.

It's actually about the most expensive way.

If I take my vehicle in and they screw something up, they have one dissatisfied customer on their hands. Perhaps even if they make good on the fix, depending on the nature of the problem. But if the DO make good on the fix, then it pretty much stops right there. Maybe I'm happy because it was correctly resolved. Maybe I'm still upset because of how problematic the problem was. But, when I leave my story will at least reflect how the problem was resolved.

If they do NOT take ownership and fix the problem, there's gonna be one dissatisfied customer on their hands AND that dissatisfied customer is going to make damn sure everybody else they can possibly talk to ALSO knows this. Friends, family, co-workers, social media, perhaps even attorneys. There's a definite cost in lost business and bad advertising to be had, and it goes far beyond whatever parts/labor it would take to just own up and fix it in the first place.
 
I am gonna go out on a limb here and say if you can't get it loose with a pull bar that it was over torqued. Likely with an impact gun. In that case it is the fault of the ones doing the service and should be on them to fix.

If you choose to do it your self do as others have suggested. Cheap first, that is crush washer and new plug. Can't say I would recommend the shop vac on the fill tube first because I think the crank case will be vented and likely not work but mainly because of what might happen if it does work. Pulling a vacuum on it might cause some strange things to happen.

As far as going to the expense of getting pump to suck out the oil for reuse why not just clean around the plug good and drain into a clean pan?
 
Schattenreiter said:
As far as going to the expense of getting pump to suck out the oil for reuse why not just clean around the plug good and drain into a clean pan?
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Was thinking if I get a good one I can do the ATF fluid as well. Seems that the going shop rate for having someone else do that is $300+, that's a lot of pumps even if I just toss it after doing 3 transmission changes (we have a lot of automatics around here)
 
Why do you want to suck out the ATF with a pump? Is it a pain to drain it? Or do some of the vehicles not have a drain plug?
I have done our Honda minivans multiple times (drain bolt on auto trans), and in our other vehicles remove the trans pan to clean it out and replace the filter.
I like draining the ATF because I feel like you get more out, including contaminates.
 
DangerRuss said:
Or do some of the vehicles not have a drain plug?
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Lots of transmissions don't have a drain plug. I assume to keep people from accidently draining their transmission when they were trying to change the engine oil.
Balancing the pan full of fluid and trying to get most of it in a bucket instead of on yourself is really awkward when changing ATF. Much better for it to be mostly empty before you remove the pan.
 
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GoWolfpack said:
Lots of transmissions don't have a drain plug. I assume to keep people from accidently draining their transmission when they were trying to change the engine oil.
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I hate that - I don’t need the manufacturer protecting me from myself. :) But I knew a guy who actually did that on a VW new model Beetle. And then there was no dipstick to check the trans fluid (which is also dumb) so it moved beyond his skillset and he got it towed to the dealer to resolve.
GoWolfpack said:
Balancing the pan full of fluid and trying to get most of it in a bucket instead of on yourself is really awkward when changing ATF. Much better for it to be mostly empty before you remove the pan.
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I agree with that for sure. :)
 
Jayne said:
Was thinking if I get a good one I can do the ATF fluid as well. Seems that the going shop rate for having someone else do that is $300+, that's a lot of pumps even if I just toss it after doing 3 transmission changes (we have a lot of automatics around here)
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If you use it for other things then I would agree that is useful to have.
 
About a new drain plug...Imma gonna say it, even though it sounds stupid:

Make sure you have the correct plug. If there's a choice between two options, get both, then return the one you don't end up needing.

I had to replace the oil drain plug on my youngest daughter's 2007 Edge. The original one had the head somewhat rounded off (probably some history behind using the improper size wrench, or perhaps a crescent wrench, on it...who knows). And damned if there weren't two frickin' sizes listed depending on where you looked...INCLUDING FORD OEM SITES. M14-1.5 and M12-1.75. Found the official OEM part number, which had no thread size listed. Searched that for a while and came up with "M14-1.5". So that's what I got.

Aaaand, it was not the correct size. Ended up being M12-1.75, which I physically matched with a $3 part at NAPA a couple blocks down the road from the house.

The sad part? Who knows what ANOTHER 2007 Edge may have? Maybe those brain dead mofos at Ford used two different sizes.

Car parts

I REALLY wanted to post this in Tortuga because I REALLY wanna use some colorful automotive repair language. But I won't, because I'm sure we all know how our blood boils on this subject. I hate starting a job on a car when I don't have all the parts I need on hand. I REALLY hate it when I...
carolinafirearmsforum.com carolinafirearmsforum.com
 
last oil change i looked at the drain plug before putting it back in - no more washer. couldn't find it anywhere. couldn't get far enough under the car to check. when i put the plug back in, it got snug early, then "popped" and let me snug it up a little more. i assumed the washer was stuck to the pan itself. started adding oil in slowly to look for leaks - nothing.
went to the auto parts store to buy a new plug, a new clean oil pan so that i could drain the new oil and reuse it if needed.
both are still sitting unused. i'll swap plugs next time i do an oil change, because i still haven't seen any oil puddles forming, and i've been checking

my dipstick has been broken for years - i can still check it if i need to, but i'm not so worried anymore

that valve looks amazing, and I may get that next time i get a new car ( which might be sooner than i want to)
 
DrScaryGuy said:
last oil change i looked at the drain plug before putting it back in - no more washer. couldn't find it anywhere. couldn't get far enough under the car to check. when i put the plug back in, it got snug early, then "popped" and let me snug it up a little more. i assumed the washer was stuck to the pan itself. started adding oil in slowly to look for leaks - nothing.
went to the auto parts store to buy a new plug, a new clean oil pan so that i could drain the new oil and reuse it if needed.
both are still sitting unused. i'll swap plugs next time i do an oil change, because i still haven't seen any oil puddles forming, and i've been checking

my dipstick has been broken for years - i can still check it if i need to, but i'm not so worried anymore

that valve looks amazing, and I may get that next time i get a new car ( which might be sooner than i want to)
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You do now that replacement dipsticks are a thing, right? New and at junk yards?
 
RetiredUSNChief said:
You do now that replacement dipsticks are a thing, right? New and at junk yards?
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yes
i can and do still pull the old one from time to time.
this car is already costing me too much to keep running, not looking to move into nickel and dime territory...
 
If it was dealer serviced the entire time and you have receipts bring those down and tell them it is their fubar to fix.

Maybe even go so far as to mark the pan & plug with a paint pen just to be sure.

Best case they stand behind their work. Worst case you wasted some time.
 
Because it hasn't been mentioned already I'll go this route. The oil change place did replace the crush washer, but didn't remove the old one. Then they over tightened it because it "felt tight" but could still be turned...so they assumed they hadn't fully crushed the washer.
 
Djstorm100 said:
You can get a washer with a o-ring on the back side that goes toward the oil pan.

Could drill and tap it with helicoil, put red loctie.

Right way would be to replace it.
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If you're using a locking helicoil, you shouldn't need Loctite. If Loctite is used, it should, of course, ONLY be applied to the outer threads of the helicoil. It should also be allowed to cure a full 24 hours before installing the drain plug.

An alternative to a helicoil would be a solid threaded insert. Also easily loctited in place.

But I can't help thinking much of what we're now tossing out is useless hypotheticals, making a mountain out of a mole hill. Get under your Jeep and do an oil change and LOOK at what is really going on. If you're not losing a ton of oil, then there's no need to do any of this until the next oil change is due anyway.
 
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