ROs, Match DQs & Safety Issues

[Tim]

As an RO and match director I see a ton of shooters go through stages. I wanted to take a second to talk about a couple issues that happened at our match this weekend and then hear from other experienced ROs about how they mitigate the inevitable safety issues inherent in our sport. What protocols do you use, how do you decide where to physically position yourself, are you splitting attention between scoring hits and watching the shooter....I know what *I* do, I want to hear what you do.

Each discipline (3Gun, RnG, PRS, Steel Challenge, USPSA, etc. ) has a unique match flow and protocol, so I want to learn what I can outside of my 2/3-Gun and Run n Gun bubble.

At the carbine match this Saturday we had 2 incidents that came about from somewhat common issues.

1. A Match DQ was handed out when a competitor tripped on a prop and lost control of his loaded rifle. This scenario is probably my biggest concern overall because as soon as a competitor loses his balance, you lose a lot of control over where that muzzle is going. We had emphasized engaging safety while moving as part of the brief and called out the trip hazard. The shooter is an experienced and far better than average competitor, absolutely welcome back. Just one of those things; if you shoot matches long enough you'll eventually catch a DQ.

2. I decided not to DQ this one, because the safety process worked and the RO was at least partially at fault. At the end of a stage with pistol in hand, the process is for the RO to instruct the shooter to "unload and show clear"...
- Shooter drops magazine and works the slide, ejecting a live round
- shooter shows the RO an empty chamber
- RO instructs "slide down, hammer down and holster" ensuring the hammer/striker is dropping on an empty chamber.

We had an incident where the the shooter and RO both failed to see the live round eject. When he got to the 'hammer down' part, a shot was put into the berm. Everybody safe, and a clear reinforcement of why we do that process.

I often times see shooters at the end of a stage rushing the 'unload and show clear' process. They get ahead of the RO and roll through the process without a lot of thought. I've seen shooters 'hammer down' while fiddling with sticking magazines back in pouches, or trying to catch the ejected round before it hits dirt...doing everything but paying attention to their muzzle. Yes, an ND like described above is a rarity, but it happens. That process is there for a reason, and it worked in this case.

So...ROs, what do you watch for and how do you ensure safety on match day?

 

[TexasEskimo]

So...ROs, what do you watch for and how do you ensure safety on match day?

My primary concern is always safety. If I miss a procedural error occasionally, so be it. I generally ask the scorer to pay closer attention to the stage course of fire as I will be 100% focused on the shooter. Just my 2-cents.

 

[Amp Mangum]

I really focus on the shooter and stay close enough to him to physically intervene if needed to prevent them from breaking the 180. I point out potential places on the course of fire that could cause safety issues.

 

[Hashknife]

Primary focus on the shooter before, during, and unloading during their stage engagement

 

[Hashknife]

We had emphasized engaging safety while moving as part of the brief and called out the trip hazard.

If the trip hazard cannot be mitigated prior to the match by altering the stage, you will more than likely have someone trip during stage engagement.

 

[Chihuahua Floyd]

i have only RO'd at a few SASS matches.
Much easier as we only had to watch shooter shoot. someone else checked loading, someone else counted hits, someone else checked unloading.
i would offer to RO at one of these matches, but want to learn better how things work. if i keep shooting 2/3 gun i will offer to RO.
i sucked on Saturday to the point that i never fired my pistol.

 

[Average Joe]

For trip hazards, when I was setting up combat courses for the office. If there was a trip hazard, I tried to use a prop that steered the officer away from the hazard. For example, in our shoot house, there were anchor points for the walls which were possible issues. I would use large props like a couch to steer the officers away from the anchor. I know what you are working with is different, but is there away that you could use 4-5 stakes with surveyor tape to direct the shooter?

 

[Hashknife]

For trip hazards, when I was setting up combat courses for the office. If there was a trip hazard, I tried to use a prop that steered the officer away from the hazard. For example, in our shoot house, there were anchor points for the walls which were possible issues. I would use large props like a couch to steer the officers away from the anchor. I know what you are working with is different, but is there away that you could use 4-5 stakes with surveyor tape to direct the shooter?

Blue Barrels work well outdoors for this scenario.

I've also used stacked small pine tree tops to steer shooters away from hazards.

 

[1911gobang]

I really focus on the shooter and stay close enough to him to physically intervene if needed to prevent them from breaking the 180. I point out potential places on the course of fire that could cause safety issues.

Amp taught me, so I pretty much do the same….

 

[Catfish]

I guess y'all won't be doing the "clearing your messy house" stage I saw at a match once. Bunch of little cones with sticks set on top short limbo bars, you had to navigate and step over them while shooting the stage and without knocking any off

 

[maven]

1) This is an active game with hazards like aggressive movements, poor footing in high traffic areas, and awkward props to work around. This is also what makes it fun. Each shooter is responsible for their own safe handling of weapons and transitions as well as their safe movement through a COF. Any loss of control of a firearm is a DQ. Period. Often times, you’ll see newer shooters get sucked into the pace of other people’s shooting and try to operate outside of their means. IMO, this is where it is paramount for the ROs to set the tone for the squad so that everyone (especially newer shooters) understands that it is their responsibility to move as fast as they can safely. No one wants to see anyone go home and the occasional incident isn't an indictment of character. Take your DQ with humility and come back to shoot another day. Emphasizing working a safety while moving is great but ultimately if someone is trying to move faster than their ability the window of safety gets narrowed substantially.


2) This incident should have been a DQ as well. It is the shooters responsibility to verify an empty chamber before dropping the slide and hammer. Any ND is a DQ. The correct commands from the RO should be "If you are finished unload and show clear. IF clear, slide forward, hammer down and holster." The IF CLEAR is 100% on the shooter. In the case you described, the process didn't actually work as intended because the answer to "If clear" was nope and he still went hammer down. This would have been a learning moment for the RO as well. Watching a live round leave the gun isn't enough for me personally. I like to visually inspect for an empty chamber as well, especially if I know I am working with a newer shooter. The RO can set the pace for both the make ready command and the unload and show clear command. Still, this would be a DQ for the shooter at any of the other popular matches/disciplines in this state.

ROing thoughts:

-There should be a minimum of two ROs per stage. One for running the timer/monitoring the shooter the other for scoring. Whoever is running the timer is solely responsible for monitoring the shooter and the stage, nothing else. There is too much going on to expect the primary RO to worry about any kind of scoring while the stage is live other than target engagement for assessing FTEs. This also allows the RO to spread responsibility around as most of them are there to shoot too! New ROs are ok but you need at least one seasoned RO per stage. If am holding a timer and running a shooter my only concern is the shooter and what they are pointing at or where they are moving to next. Huge pet peeve of mine when I see newer ROs bending over to pick up a mag the shooter just dropped.

-RO positioning usually gets dictated by the stage itself. After shooting long enough you can see what the best way to handle a stage is. Not all shooters will approach this the same way, especially if they are still learning. Give them the space they need to move safely but don't be so far away you can't intervene if needed. Remember, only the last shot actually needs to be picked up by the timer. Don't crowd a shooter until you know they approaching their final targets in an array/stage. There is nothing quite like a new shooter realizing that they left a target halfway back up range and deciding to erratically retreat to get it. You better be ready and you better make sure the rest of the squad is backed up as well. A good scorekeep RO should be cognizant of what is going on and assist in keeping the rest of the stage clear until "range is clear" gets called.

-The RO should be familiar enough with new shooters and seasoned pros alike to determine what kind of shooter they are getting ready to run through a stage. Ask the squad before the first stage brief when doing roll call if there are any new shooters. Our goal should be to embrace those that are interested in learning and competing. If you are running a squad and you determine you have a few new heads in the crowd, make note and move them down in the line up so they can watch a few more experienced shooters run the COF. There is nothing wrong with being a beginner or going slow. Embarrassment is the cost of entry to the game and everyone had to learn how to do it. Giving new or less experienced shooters more confidence to handle a COF increases safety as well as bolsters participation in the sport. Chat them up. Encourage them to ask questions. Build rapport. Make new friends. Don't be a dick RO.

-The RO should take a moment after a shooter has finished and fully cleared all weapons to directly address anything that could have evolved into a safety issue. Pointing out an awkward position they ended up in or movement that put the firearm in an orientation where the probability for a safety violation went up is a quick way to get them back on track. "Hey when you came out of this corner you turned in a way that got close to the 180. Since you are right handed, try thinking about exiting a corner like this with your body positioned this way so that you keep the muzzle squarely down range." Most adults that play this game appreciate professional correction when presented to them in a calm and appropriate manner. I don't care how much lead you sling in your backyard... We're playing a fast and aggressive GAME and these rules and the "right way" to do things exist for a reason. New shooters should want to do it the right way. Its a partnership between the ROs and all competitors to make sure we all get there.

-In the event of a safety violation that earns a DQ it is important to communicate why they are being DQd in a manner that doesn't make them feel like they are being roasted or talked down to. Competitive nature is what brings most people out to shooting sports and the game certainly attracts a certain type of person. A well communicated DQ often leads to a learning moment that can make the shooter better in the long run. It is a good rule of thumb to give them a few minutes to calm down before really hitting the recap of why the DQ happened. It is the primary ROs responsibility to get the MD involved if the shooter doesn’t accept the call.

 

[Hashknife]

1) This is an active game with hazards like aggressive movements, poor footing in high traffic areas, and awkward props to work around. This is also what makes it fun. Each shooter is responsible for their own safe handling of weapons and transitions as well as their safe movement through a COF. Any loss of control of a firearm is a DQ. Period. Often times, you’ll see newer shooters get sucked into the pace of other people’s shooting and try to operate outside of their means. IMO, this is where it is paramount for the ROs to set the tone for the squad so that everyone (especially newer shooters) understands that it is their responsibility to move as fast as they can safely. No one wants to see anyone go home and the occasional incident isn't an indictment of character. Take your DQ with humility and come back to shoot another day. Emphasizing working a safety while moving is great but ultimately if someone is trying to move faster than their ability the window of safety gets narrowed substantially.


2) This incident should have been a DQ as well. It is the shooters responsibility to verify an empty chamber before dropping the slide and hammer. Any ND is a DQ. The correct commands from the RO should be "If you are finished unload and show clear. IF clear, slide forward, hammer down and holster." The IF CLEAR is 100% on the shooter. In the case you described, the process didn't actually work as intended because the answer to "If clear" was nope and he still went hammer down. This would have been a learning moment for the RO as well. Watching a live round leave the gun isn't enough for me personally. I like to visually inspect for an empty chamber as well, especially if I know I am working with a newer shooter. The RO can set the pace for both the make ready command and the unload and show clear command. Still, this would be a DQ for the shooter at any of the other popular matches/disciplines in this state.

ROing thoughts:

-There should be a minimum of two ROs per stage. One for running the timer/monitoring the shooter the other for scoring. Whoever is running the timer is solely responsible for monitoring the shooter and the stage, nothing else. There is too much going on to expect the primary RO to worry about any kind of scoring while the stage is live other than target engagement for assessing FTEs. This also allows the RO to spread responsibility around as most of them are there to shoot too! New ROs are ok but you need at least one seasoned RO per stage. If am holding a timer and running a shooter my only concern is the shooter and what they are pointing at or where they are moving to next. Huge pet peeve of mine when I see newer ROs bending over to pick up a mag the shooter just dropped.

-RO positioning usually gets dictated by the stage itself. After shooting long enough you can see what the best way to handle a stage is. Not all shooters will approach this the same way, especially if they are still learning. Give them the space they need to move safely but don't be so far away you can't intervene if needed. Remember, only the last shot actually needs to be picked up by the timer. Don't crowd a shooter until you know they approaching their final targets in an array/stage. There is nothing quite like a new shooter realizing that they left a target halfway back up range and deciding to erratically retreat to get it. You better be ready and you better make sure the rest of the squad is backed up as well. A good scorekeep RO should be cognizant of what is going on and assist in keeping the rest of the stage clear until "range is clear" gets called.

-The RO should be familiar enough with new shooters and seasoned pros alike to determine what kind of shooter they are getting ready to run through a stage. Ask the squad before the first stage brief when doing roll call if there are any new shooters. Our goal should be to embrace those that are interested in learning and competing. If you are running a squad and you determine you have a few new heads in the crowd, make note and move them down in the line up so they can watch a few more experienced shooters run the COF. There is nothing wrong with being a beginner or going slow. Embarrassment is the cost of entry to the game and everyone had to learn how to do it. Giving new or less experienced shooters more confidence to handle a COF increases safety as well as bolsters participation in the sport. Chat them up. Encourage them to ask questions. Build rapport. Make new friends. Don't be a dick RO.

-The RO should take a moment after a shooter has finished and fully cleared all weapons to directly address anything that could have evolved into a safety issue. Pointing out an awkward position they ended up in or movement that put the firearm in an orientation where the probability for a safety violation went up is a quick way to get them back on track. "Hey when you came out of this corner you turned in a way that got close to the 180. Since you are right handed, try thinking about exiting a corner like this with your body positioned this way so that you keep the muzzle squarely down range." Most adults that play this game appreciate professional correction when presented to them in a calm and appropriate manner. I don't care how much lead you sling in your backyard... We're playing a fast and aggressive GAME and these rules and the "right way" to do things exist for a reason. New shooters should want to do it the right way. Its a partnership between the ROs and all competitors to make sure we all get there.

-In the event of a safety violation that earns a DQ it is important to communicate why they are being DQd in a manner that doesn't make them feel like they are being roasted or talked down to. Competitive nature is what brings most people out to shooting sports and the game certainly attracts a certain type of person. A well communicated DQ often leads to a learning moment that can make the shooter better in the long run. It is a good rule of thumb to give them a few minutes to calm down before really hitting the recap of why the DQ happened. It is the primary ROs responsibility to get the MD involved if the shooter doesn’t accept the call.

This is all good stuff ^^^^^^

From my experience, I would also add that the Match Director should not be an RO.

An RO should be focused only on the stage/shooter that they are working.

The MD should be focused on the overall progress/flow of the match and dealing with any issues that pop up.

 

[Tim]

1) This is an active game with hazards like aggressive movements, poor footing in high traffic areas, and awkward props to work around. This is also what makes it fun. Each shooter is responsible for their own safe handling of weapons and transitions as well as their safe movement through a COF. Any loss of control of a firearm is a DQ. Period. Often times, you’ll see newer shooters get sucked into the pace of other people’s shooting and try to operate outside of their means. IMO, this is where it is paramount for the ROs to set the tone for the squad so that everyone (especially newer shooters) understands that it is their responsibility to move as fast as they can safely. No one wants to see anyone go home and the occasional incident isn't an indictment of character. Take your DQ with humility and come back to shoot another day. Emphasizing working a safety while moving is great but ultimately if someone is trying to move faster than their ability the window of safety gets narrowed substantially.


2) This incident should have been a DQ as well. It is the shooters responsibility to verify an empty chamber before dropping the slide and hammer. Any ND is a DQ. The correct commands from the RO should be "If you are finished unload and show clear. IF clear, slide forward, hammer down and holster." The IF CLEAR is 100% on the shooter. In the case you described, the process didn't actually work as intended because the answer to "If clear" was nope and he still went hammer down. This would have been a learning moment for the RO as well. Watching a live round leave the gun isn't enough for me personally. I like to visually inspect for an empty chamber as well, especially if I know I am working with a newer shooter. The RO can set the pace for both the make ready command and the unload and show clear command. Still, this would be a DQ for the shooter at any of the other popular matches/disciplines in this state.

ROing thoughts:

-There should be a minimum of two ROs per stage. One for running the timer/monitoring the shooter the other for scoring. Whoever is running the timer is solely responsible for monitoring the shooter and the stage, nothing else. There is too much going on to expect the primary RO to worry about any kind of scoring while the stage is live other than target engagement for assessing FTEs. This also allows the RO to spread responsibility around as most of them are there to shoot too! New ROs are ok but you need at least one seasoned RO per stage. If am holding a timer and running a shooter my only concern is the shooter and what they are pointing at or where they are moving to next. Huge pet peeve of mine when I see newer ROs bending over to pick up a mag the shooter just dropped.

-RO positioning usually gets dictated by the stage itself. After shooting long enough you can see what the best way to handle a stage is. Not all shooters will approach this the same way, especially if they are still learning. Give them the space they need to move safely but don't be so far away you can't intervene if needed. Remember, only the last shot actually needs to be picked up by the timer. Don't crowd a shooter until you know they approaching their final targets in an array/stage. There is nothing quite like a new shooter realizing that they left a target halfway back up range and deciding to erratically retreat to get it. You better be ready and you better make sure the rest of the squad is backed up as well. A good scorekeep RO should be cognizant of what is going on and assist in keeping the rest of the stage clear until "range is clear" gets called.

-The RO should be familiar enough with new shooters and seasoned pros alike to determine what kind of shooter they are getting ready to run through a stage. Ask the squad before the first stage brief when doing roll call if there are any new shooters. Our goal should be to embrace those that are interested in learning and competing. If you are running a squad and you determine you have a few new heads in the crowd, make note and move them down in the line up so they can watch a few more experienced shooters run the COF. There is nothing wrong with being a beginner or going slow. Embarrassment is the cost of entry to the game and everyone had to learn how to do it. Giving new or less experienced shooters more confidence to handle a COF increases safety as well as bolsters participation in the sport. Chat them up. Encourage them to ask questions. Build rapport. Make new friends. Don't be a dick RO.

-The RO should take a moment after a shooter has finished and fully cleared all weapons to directly address anything that could have evolved into a safety issue. Pointing out an awkward position they ended up in or movement that put the firearm in an orientation where the probability for a safety violation went up is a quick way to get them back on track. "Hey when you came out of this corner you turned in a way that got close to the 180. Since you are right handed, try thinking about exiting a corner like this with your body positioned this way so that you keep the muzzle squarely down range." Most adults that play this game appreciate professional correction when presented to them in a calm and appropriate manner. I don't care how much lead you sling in your backyard... We're playing a fast and aggressive GAME and these rules and the "right way" to do things exist for a reason. New shooters should want to do it the right way. Its a partnership between the ROs and all competitors to make sure we all get there.

-In the event of a safety violation that earns a DQ it is important to communicate why they are being DQd in a manner that doesn't make them feel like they are being roasted or talked down to. Competitive nature is what brings most people out to shooting sports and the game certainly attracts a certain type of person. A well communicated DQ often leads to a learning moment that can make the shooter better in the long run. It is a good rule of thumb to give them a few minutes to calm down before really hitting the recap of why the DQ happened. It is the primary ROs responsibility to get the MD involved if the shooter doesn’t accept the call.

This is the kind of response I was looking for on the thread. Thanks!

-RO positioning usually gets dictated by the stage itself.
and
-The RO should be familiar enough with new shooters and seasoned pros alike to determine what kind of shooter they are getting ready to run through a stage

I have a friend that is just getting into the sport that asked if he could RO this last match. He's a good guy, safe, level-headed, etc. But I gave him a firm "NO" on RO'ing primarily because of these 2 factors. It takes a bunch of experience to 'get' this.

 

[commiecuriocollector]

We had an incident where the the shooter and RO both failed to see the live round eject. When he got to the 'hammer down' part, a shot was put into the berm. Everybody safe, and a clear reinforcement of why we do that process.

I often times see shooters at the end of a stage rushing the 'unload and show clear' process. They get ahead of the RO and roll through the process without a lot of thought. I've seen shooters 'hammer down' while fiddling with sticking magazines back in pouches, or trying to catch the ejected round before it hits dirt...doing everything but paying attention to their muzzle. Yes, an ND like described above is a rarity, but it happens. That process is there for a reason, and it worked in this case.

Out of curiosity, was it ever determined why a live round was in the chamber at the "hammer down" point? Forgot to rack the slide first or was something else at play?

 

[Tim]

Out of curiosity, was it ever determined why a live round was in the chamber at the "hammer down" point? Forgot to rack the slide first or was something else at play?

The RO - someone I trust completely - says the mag WAS dropped first and slide WAS racked. So, it's unclear about how the round failed to eject.

 

[TexasEskimo]

When the start of the CoF gives the shooter the option of moving to the left or right to engage the initial array I always asked them which way they are choosing to go. Then I prepare myself for them forgetting and going the opposite way, by not crowding them.
I also concur from a comment above that while it's "nice" to pick up every round fired on the timer, the first and last round is the ultimate goal.

 

[Hashknife]

The RO - someone I trust completely - says the mag WAS dropped first and slide WAS racked. So, it's unclear about how the round failed to eject.

"Show Clear" means show the RO that the chamber is indeed clear.
RO needs to visually check for a clear chamber before proceeding with the next commands.

 

[commiecuriocollector]

The RO - someone I trust completely - says the mag WAS dropped first and slide WAS racked. So, it's unclear about how the round failed to eject.

Ok thanks, yeah it's frustrating when you have an accident, even worse when you don't know why. Like you said, the safety precautions proved their worth in this situation.

 

[Tim]

Ok thanks, yeah it's frustrating when you have an accident, even worse when you don't know why. Like you said, the safety precautions proved their worth in this situation.

I get that it would have been a DQ at most matches, and if my RO had dropped the hammer (ha!) in the moment I would have 100% backed that call. Given the totality of the circumstances (shooter's attitude was a major factor), I chose not to DQ and we all walked away smarter for the experience.

 

[Chihuahua Floyd]

May have said it before, but the drop may, engage HVT, is a great way to get rifle empty before it goes into a barrel. I like it.

 

[commiecuriocollector]

I get that it would have been a DQ at most matches, and if my RO had dropped the hammer (ha!) in the moment I would have 100% backed that call. Given the totality of the circumstances (shooter's attitude was a major factor), I chose not to DQ and we all walked away smarter for the experience.

I wasn't criticizing your call on that one, I might have done the same thing. These little flub-ups happen fast, say someone drops the mag, everyone sees that, then looks away/blinks as the shooter short strokes racking the slide, everyone hears the slide slam home, but no one notices nothing "tinked", and then before there is time to think, BAM. Key element here was the fail-safe being observed that the bullet hit the berm.

I was just honestly curious if it was possibly a scenario like that, something different, or a what-just-happened-here scenario.

 

[phideux]

I worked the matches at our local range for quite a few years, me and my buddy Butch did them together for about 4yrs, every week, local Tuesday night matches. We had a good tag team system, depending on the match, one of us would be the timer, follow the shooter, count shots and hits, the other one would hang back and look for safety stuff and violations. One thing we were strict on was showing clear, you didn't holster or turn around until me, or Butch, actually looked in the gun and said clear.