Russian ammo bans

Repost from another site.

From the link, emphasis mine:
New sanctions imposed today under the CBW Act include:
  1. Restrictions on the permanent imports of certain Russian firearms. New and pending permit applications for the permanent importation of firearms and ammunition manufactured or located in Russia will be subject to a policy of denial.
This article was less click-baity/panicky than most, and lined up with my read of things (not that my opinion counts for much:

What Did Joe Biden Just Do With Russian Gun And Ammo Imports?

I’ve seen a lot of folks on social media say that this is a total ban on the importation of Russian ammunition (and many folks ignoring the word “firearms” in there as well), but I don’t read it that way. It looks to me that those U.S. companies that are currently permitted to import arms and ammunition manufactured in Russia can continue their operations as normal (at least for now), but no new permits will be issued, including those that are already in the pipeline.

If, however, their current permits expire while the sanctions are in place, they won’t be able to renew them. Late Friday, The Reload’s Stephen Gutowski reported that it could be up to two years for some companies, but that doesn’t mean that there aren’t distributors whose permits could expire long before then. According to Gutowski’s report, the National Shooting Sports Foundation is also investigating if the new sanctions will also “deny imports of popular collectible firearms like the Mosin-Nagant,” and are trying to get some answers from Customs and Border Patrol about how the agency plans to address the issue.

Does anyone know how long the permits are issued for? To me it seems like this will only be an issue if an importer or distributors permit ends during the current admin.
 
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wvsig said:
Repost from another site.

From the link, emphasis mine:
New sanctions imposed today under the CBW Act include:
  1. Restrictions on the permanent imports of certain Russian firearms. New and pending permit applications for the permanent importation of firearms and ammunition manufactured or located in Russia will be subject to a policy of denial.
This article was less click-baity/panicky than most, and lined up with my read of things (not that my opinion counts for much:

What Did Joe Biden Just Do With Russian Gun And Ammo Imports?

I’ve seen a lot of folks on social media say that this is a total ban on the importation of Russian ammunition (and many folks ignoring the word “firearms” in there as well), but I don’t read it that way. It looks to me that those U.S. companies that are currently permitted to import arms and ammunition manufactured in Russia can continue their operations as normal (at least for now), but no new permits will be issued, including those that are already in the pipeline.

If, however, their current permits expire while the sanctions are in place, they won’t be able to renew them. Late Friday, The Reload’s Stephen Gutowski reported that it could be up to two years for some companies, but that doesn’t mean that there aren’t distributors whose permits could expire long before then. According to Gutowski’s report, the National Shooting Sports Foundation is also investigating if the new sanctions will also “deny imports of popular collectible firearms like the Mosin-Nagant,” and are trying to get some answers from Customs and Border Patrol about how the agency plans to address the issue.

Does anyone know how long the permits are issued for? To me it seems like this will only be an issue if an importer or distributors permit ends during the current admin.
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If they are talking about their importers license than thats a whole different game. I dont believe thats the case though. Permits are issued on each shipment.
 
I’m definitely bummed. Even though I’ve stocked up well pre-pandemic, no more fun mag dumps! I miss going to Walmart and picking up 40rd boxes of Tul for like $6-7 as far back as a couple of years ago. A few days ago I bought 1k of MaxxTech for around 280 w/free shipping. Saw it this morning for almost 700. That happened in a matter of hours. Time to dust off the AR.
 
They banned the importation of Russian guns in what 2014? Every day we are bringing in new AKs from Yugoslavia, Poland, Romania, etc.

This will be no different.
 
NC Rob said:
They banned the importation of Russian guns in what 2014? Every day we are bringing in new AKs from Yugoslavia, Poland, Romania, etc.

This will be no different.
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When they did ban the import of Russian AKs they were just coming in at around 500$. Try buying one for that now. Yes, ammo will eventually come in from elsewhere but the prices will take a long time to come down again. The Russian ammo makers were big players after all.
 
Stogies said:
When they did ban the import of Russian AKs they were just coming in at around 500$. Try buying one for that now. Yes, ammo will eventually come in from elsewhere but the prices will take a long time to come down again. The Russian ammo makers were big players after all.
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Not saying it won't change but it won't dry up.

Plus now that the Taliban needs 5.56 maybe we can pool a boatload together and make a trade.
 
rdinatal said:
Ya think they would want Biden (Sr, throw the younger one in for free), Camel Toe, or even Pelosi???
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I bet if we were getting rid of them ourselves the Russians would supply us with all the free ammo we need...
 
It will surprise me if any Form 6’s are approved by the ATF unless there is a backroom deal made. That Midway M1 Carbine deal maybe the last big deal for repatriation of mil-surps especially if the Chipman appointment gets rammed thru the Senate.
 
People are already buying and selling Russian AK ammo for stupid money. When will people learn?

People are even gouging on Wolf ammo in other common calibers like 9 mm and 223. Why would anyone pay more for steel cased Wolf over domestic brass cased ammo?
 
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wvsig said:
People are even gouging on Wolf ammo in other common calibers like 9 mm and 223. Why would anyone pay more for steel cased Wolf over domestic brass cased ammo?
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I've seen that, too. A real head scratcher.
 
cubrock said:
I've seen that, too. A real head scratcher.
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...because they cant have it anymore.

Look at how expensive alot of the chinese 7.62x39mm ammo had already gotten in the last 30 years...
It wasnt anything super special, its just not available anymore.

Watch, at somepoint people will be treating some of this stuff as "collectible".
 
cubrock said:
I've seen that, too. A real head scratcher.
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The only non AK steel cased ammo I buy is to test guns for light strikes. If it will set off Wolf primers it will set off anything. Every now and then I pick some up if I am going to shoot somewhere it is hard to pick up the brass but I certainly am not paying extra for it.
 
Desolo said:
...because they cant have it anymore.

Look at how expensive alot of the chinese 7.62x39mm ammo had already gotten in the last 30 years...
It wasnt anything super special, its just not available anymore.

Watch, at somepoint people will be treating some of this stuff as "collectible".
Click to expand...

FOMO and "The Take Away" are the best selling tools in the toolbox.
 
wvsig said:
FOMO and "The Take Away" are the best selling tools in the toolbox.
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...Exactly.

And it will embolden a lot of stupid behavior. Watch, you will see people dumping ammo for as much as they can sell (Cause HEY, I can make more then I spent...), then they will turn around and buy up anything else that comes up to replace it on the market (Well, it DOES cost 2x what I used to pay.... but I "made" 4-5x what I spent on the other...so its worth it to have ammo.) , because when it comes down to it, people forget that HAVING something on hand is BETTER then trying to REPLACE it.

this is going to be a mess.
 
Desolo said:
...Exactly.

And it will embolden a lot of stupid behavior. Watch, you will see people dumping ammo for as much as they can sell (Cause HEY, I can make more then I spent...), then they will turn around and buy up anything else that comes up to replace it on the market (Well, it DOES cost 2x what I used to pay.... but I "made" 4-5x what I spent on the other...so its worth it to have ammo.) , because when it comes down to it, people forget that HAVING something on hand is BETTER then trying to REPLACE it.

this is going to be a mess.
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Already saw one today. It's on the site whose name shall not be spoken. Nature Boi called them out, then gave them a WOOOOOOOO! Ad stomping, which would not be tolerated here, regardless... but I was amused...

Sent from my SM-N975U using Tapatalk
 
I have 2 … maybe 3 … crates (something like 1200 rounds per) of 7.62x39 somewhere that a LGS owner has been worrying me about. It’s freakin’ corrosive Yugo stuff (M67 maybe) I’ve had for years … I think I paid maybe $125 per crate back when I had a couple AK’s. He said he’d credit me $300 per crate towards anything he had. With this crap starting I guess I might actually have to dig it out to see just what I have …
 
Desolo said:
...Exactly.

And it will embolden a lot of stupid behavior. Watch, you will see people dumping ammo for as much as they can sell (Cause HEY, I can make more then I spent...), then they will turn around and buy up anything else that comes up to replace it on the market (Well, it DOES cost 2x what I used to pay.... but I "made" 4-5x what I spent on the other...so its worth it to have ammo.) , because when it comes down to it, people forget that HAVING something on hand is BETTER then trying to REPLACE it.

this is going to be a mess.
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It will be even worse if it amounts to nothing. It is very unclear how much ammo is already approved and in the pipeline coming to the US from Russian sources. Everyone is going on speculation not facts.

I have seen no concrete evidence that tells us what is actually happening. Also this is an executive order that could change at any time. The key is always to have enough on hand of anything you care about to last with these type of shortages.
 
NCFubar said:
I have 2 … maybe 3 … crates (something like 1200 rounds per) of 7.62x39 somewhere that a LGS owner has been worrying me about. It’s freakin’ corrosive Yugo stuff (M67 maybe) I’ve had for years … I think I paid maybe $125 per crate back when I had a couple AK’s. He said he’d credit me $300 per crate towards anything he had. With this crap starting I guess I might actually have to dig it out to see just what I have …
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It is selling online for $.50 a round
 
It is my understanding that form 6s are valid for 24 months. Once they are approved. What no one knows is where in the 24 months a particular importer, distributor etc is. Some might have only a few months left other could have as much as 24.


Looking at it again it states:

www.state.gov

Fact Sheet: United States Imposes Additional Costs on Russia for the Poisoning of Aleksey Navalny - United States Department of State

CBW ACT SANCTIONS Description of Sanctions: Pursuant to the Chemical and Biological Weapons Control and Warfare Elimination Act of 1991 (the CBW Act), the United States will impose a second round of sanctions on the Russian Federation over its use of a “Novichok” nerve agent in the August 2020...
www.state.gov www.state.gov

New sanctions imposed today under the CBW Act include:

  1. Restrictions on the permanent imports of certain Russian firearms. New and pending permit applications for the permanent importation of firearms and ammunition manufactured or located in Russia will be subject to a policy of denial.
  2. Additional Department of Commerce export restrictions on nuclear and missile-related goods and technology pursuant to the Export Control Reform Act of 2018.
It says nothing about individual shipments unless I am missing something. This is talking about a Form 6 right? As I linked to above form 6s once approved are valid for 24 months. I don't see where this is instituting a immediate ban on importations of ammo by approved vendors. Please clarify for me if I am wrong.
 
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I had a Form 6 approved for importation of a Turkish shotgun from Afghanistan last year. It is good for two years. I couldn't import the shotgun as CENTCOM/ARCENT Customs won't let it out of country. Government BS, so destroyed it before I left. Form 6s need to have the amount listed ie 100,000 rds of 7.62x39 etc per permit. Not a blanket/unllimited 2 yr import permit in my understanding. Also on my import permit they denied import of ONE round of .577/.450 Martini Henry for a rifle I had already sent home.

CD
 
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Brawny said:
Damn man, I'm wondering if I should renew my shooting club dues. Don't have time to go for one thing, can't afford to shoot for another. I'll keep it, but it's just getting harder and harder to justify it.
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THAT is what this is all about. He's not punishing Russia, he's pushing gun control.
 

Zerohedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero
www.zerohedge.com www.zerohedge.com

"...the State Department appears to be using the attack on Mr. Navalny and this law primarily to further the current administration's campaign to undermine the firearms industry.."
 
One of the reasons I never bought a 7.62x39 is almost all the ammo was out of communist territories. I felt shipments could end with politics. And here we are. Having said this the Biden Administration is pretty stupid. The ammo people in Russia will find countries to funnel ammo thru even if it means final assembly in some obscure place.
 
If there is a will. There is a way

But I'm wondering if I can get shipment of Steel cases, Bullets and Primers for 5.45 from Russia

Then I'll just take my time assembly it myself
 
While I'm as pissed as the next guy, there is plenty of ammunition manufacturing in eastern Europe outside of Russia proper. A couple of recent cases of Wolf I bought were made in Ukraine. Maxxtech comes from Bosnia, Red Army Standard (while it's Tula today) was at one point imported from Ukraine as well. There are huge cartridge plants in Serbia, Romania, Bulgaria, even Mexico and Brazil and other countries.

My main concern is 1) can (or will) these sanctions be challenged in court, and 2) will they ever expire?

Nobody's gonna argue that Russia should be permitted to get away scot free with poisoning a dissident, but the fact that the chose to target ammunition imports is telling.
 
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Jeppo said:
Yeah, but they have brass for less.
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Just glad I never got the urge to get an AK. I hardly ever shoot my AR's.

A friend tried to sell me his pistol, just couldn't talk myself into it. I can usually do that. Thank goodness
I have had ZERO interest in either AR or AK pistols.


Sigogglin said:
My main concern is 1) can (or will) these sanctions be challenged in court, and 2) will they ever expire?

Nobody's gonna argue that Russia should be permitted to get away scot free with poisoning a dissident, but the fact that the chose to target ammunition imports is telling.
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Supposedly GOA is working on it....

https://www.ammoland.com/2021/08/goa-response-to-bidens-russian-firearms-ammunition-ban/
 
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