SCDs ... yea or nay, and why

SCDs: yea or nay?

  • Yea

    Votes: 5 15.2%

  • Nay

    Votes: 23 69.7%

  • IDK

    Votes: 5 15.2%
  • Total voters
    33
JT

JT

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I'd welcome a serious discussion about striker control devices, the pluses and minuses, and any real world experience anyone would care to share. The poll is just for aggregation of opinion.
 
Funny you mention this, as I just saw something on Facebook about it. Larry Correia, of all people, was involved in a discussion about not carrying a round in the chamber (and how bad an idea that was). And someone mentioned a SCD for Glocks where you swap out the back plate for a device that would allow you to holster it safely by pressing on it.
 
Mine is an uneducated opinion, but I voted Nay.

How often does one hear of an AD (not a ND) with a striker fired pistol? The whole purpose of a striker fired system is to allow you to safely carry a round in the chamber, and to avoid the need to remove a safety during a high stress situation. The hammer and grip safety's are pretty much automatically released (especially the former) when you grip the gun and squeeze the trigger.

If one wants a pistol with a safety, simply buy a hammer style pistol that has one. Otherwise why mess up a good system?

Again, my opinion is uneducated.
 
I voted Yea.

I have 5 of them so far, 3 more to go. The only downside is the money spent. I haven't been able to envision a situation where they could cause a malfunction, and I've never heard of one happening. You could break off the hinged part, and you would still have a backplate.

It's not a safety. It allows you to "ride the hammer" (striker) into the holster; so the trigger can't move, or if it does you can feel it, in the event that some foreign object gets into the trigger guard while holstering. Otherwise, the function of the gun is not affected.

They are only available for Glocks, as far as I know. The concept only applies to striker guns that finish cocking with the initial pull of the trigger. I think some of the Walthers have a striker indicator that sticks through the backplate that accomplishes the same thing, but I may be mistaken, it's been a while since I handled one.

I started my concealed carry journey with DAO and DA/SA guns because of my preference to ride the hammer while holstering, but I shoot Glocks better. The SCD gives me the same essential functionality with Glocks.

There, I said it. I shoot my Glocks better than I shoot my CZ's. But, I wouldn't hammer in a tent peg with a CZ.
 
My vote is Nay. The striker isn’t under any tension until the trigger is depressed. The ND/ADs (which ever you prefer) that occur when holstering comes from either the operator leaving their finger on the trigger inside the the trigger guard or another foreign object getting inside the trigger guard while holstering. There are very few times in the civilian world where there is a need to holster quickly. So with proper training and awareness those NDs/ADs can be avoided.

Edited to fix spelling error
 
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None of my striker fired weapons have safeties, and yet I've never felt unsafe having a round chambered. I'm not concerned about additional safeties when holstering, because I'm never in such a hurry to holster that I jeopardize squeezing the trigger or having the trigger hang up on something while doing so - I holster slowly and deliberately enough that I would feel any resistance, especially since my pistols drop freely into Kydex up until the point they click in for retention. I'd much rather not have to fuss about manipulating my grip while holstering to ensure that I've got my thumb situated where the device wants it to be. I probably wouldn't care if a gun I purchased came with one, but I'm not sure I'd use it, either. I WOULD care, however, if a SCD required me to omit/cover the firing pin indicator on my guns that have one, though. I really like that my Canik has a rear firing pin indicator, which I find much more beneficial than an SCD.
 
FYI, Ernest Langdon has taken over making them from Tau.
 
Pics? Links? Hard to render an opinion without knowing what you are referring to and how they work, especially if there's more than one.
 
Stobie said:
I think some of the Walthers have a striker indicator that sticks through the backplate that accomplishes the same thing, but I may be mistaken, it's been a while since I handled one.
Click to expand...
I think that you're referring to the Springfield Armory XD series...
 
Interesting, I'd probably vote Yay but I also carry a striker fired pistol with a manual safety, for more reasons that just drawing/holstering. I just practice with it on/off (ie don't just go to the range and leave it off till you're done). Otherwise I look at this like a manual safety that exists in a temporary state.

Otherwise having swapped springs and took the time to see how the trigger bar releases the striker safety as well as the hammer I have no concerns about AD/ND unless something pulls the bang switch, so it depends on one's comfort to ALWAYS take the right precautions. But then I also can't figure out why no trigger pull take down should be a defining feature or why McDonalds has to warn that coffee is hot, but that's all another issue.
 
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Why add a device that could fail and render my gun useless in stressful situations? I'm old and slow. I like the idea of striker guns without safeties so I can draw, or pick up, and start pulling the triggers. In fact, the trigger safeties on striker guns can "fail" if you are under stress and don't get your finger on the triggers correctly. I learned this, for me, by dry firing a Ruger American Pistol and failing a few times to get the correct grip. If you ever get your finger pulling other than straight back on those trigger safeties, the gun won't fire.
 
Scsmith42 said:
Mine is an uneducated opinion, but I voted Nay.

How often does one hear of an AD (not a ND) with a striker fired pistol? The whole purpose of a striker fired system is to allow you to safely carry a round in the chamber, and to avoid the need to remove a safety during a high stress situation. The hammer and grip safety's are pretty much automatically released (especially the former) when you grip the gun and squeeze the trigger.

If one wants a pistol with a safety, simply buy a hammer style pistol that has one. Otherwise why mess up a good system?

Again, my opinion is uneducated.
Click to expand...
It's not a safety. It's essentially a striker indicator that can be added to a Glock. And, Glocks don't have grip safeties.

It doesn't have to be manipulated to fire the gun, it's completely passive. If you don't put your thumb on it, or look at it, you wouldn't know it's there. It doesn't affect the function of the gun in any way, as long as your thumb isn't clamped down on it. The advantages of a striker-fired pistol are not lost, while the holstering advantages of a hammer gun are gained.

How many of you guys who voted "Nay" have handled a Glock with one of these installed? I feel like you haven't, because most of the comments indicate some lack of understanding about what the device is for, what it does, and how it does it.

And, @dmarbell , the SCD is about 0.00001% more likely to cause a malfunction than the stock backplate.

Here's a short video that does a better job of explaining the advantages than LTT's vid above, from a guy that bought his own:

 
Wow. I was curious enough to consider ordering one. But, they're $80! And they only showed a Gen 5 and slim frame (43/48) as options with Gen 5 crossed out. So, no for me. But, the idea is interesting. Had it been available for generic Gen 3 and under $30 I might have gotten one to try. Does make me think about things to do with the back plate though.
 
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Hmmm. I actually do like this idea for certain reasons.
If you are doing lots of heavy practice/training with lots of appendix re-holstering and drawing from concealment.
I see people quickly jamming striker guns into holsters without looking and it makes me cringe.

This is just a little insurance for your johnson. I still get creeped out with appendix re-holstering sometimes. Wouldn't mind this on a practice gun.
 
I voted no. If you are worried about shooting your femoral artery or blowing you cock off with a Glock then don’t carry appendix or just buy a gun with a safety. This is a solution to a non existent problem in my own opinion but each person is rightfully allowed to have their own.
 
SCD's aren't just for appendix carry. Shooting yourself while holstering at 4:00 is still a bad thing. I don't carry Glocks. I carry a CZ P07 and holster with my thumb on the hammer. I also holster deliberately and make sure the gun isn't pointing at any part of me while I'm holstering. The reason for the great amount of caution--multiple layers of safety--is that I am a human being.

There is, as I write this post, another thread started by a member who drove off to a meet up for a trade and forgot one of the trade items. Other members are commiserating with him--we've all been there, we're only human, everyone makes mistakes. How true. How true. I recognize that I could actually make mistakes when I'm holstering my pistol. That's why I would put a SCD on a Glock if I owned one...no exceptions.
 
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I think an issue it could address is objects or materials getting in the way, like shirt-tails, zippers, drawstrings, etc. during a reholster. I've had t-shirt get caught up in a reholster often enough. And as @Moylan points out, human fallibility.
It reminds me of the Sherpa holster issue. Some will swear it can't happen and yet it does, for reasons less obvious than simple operator error. The design is conducive to operator error.
Many proclaimed answers to these problems require cognitive processing by the operators. But, in many situations, clear cognitive processing is in short supply.

That said, I may have hated it had I gotten one. And I'm not willing to spend $80 to find out.
 
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SCDs have been around for years. In probably a decade of reading P-F, I haven’t heard of a single mechanical failure with the device. There was one post I read where the SCD backplate came loose after 9K rounds, but the problem was the extractor spring (so it would have happened with any backplate).

They used to be called the “Gadget.”

I’m a hammer-gun guy, but I holster every DA gun with a thumb in the back of the hammer, and I put my thumb in the way of every SA gun’s hammer when holstering. If I carried a Glock, it would have two upgrades: metal sights and a SCD.

I trust myself not to stick my finger in a trigger guard or reholster in a hurry. I do not trust random strings, clothing, and sticks to stay out of a trigger guard. Weird stuff happens. Being able to feel that something is “off,” without counting on eyesight, seems like a no-lose option.
 
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Radar said:
I voted no. If you are worried about shooting your femoral artery or blowing you cock off with a Glock then don’t carry appendix or just buy a gun with a safety. This is a solution to a non existent problem in my own opinion but each person is rightfully allowed to have their own.
Click to expand...

Ot just use a Glock and put one of these on it.
 
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Stobie said:
It's not a safety. It's essentially a striker indicator that can be added to a Glock. And, Glocks don't have grip safeties.

It doesn't have to be manipulated to fire the gun, it's completely passive. If you don't put your thumb on it, or look at it, you wouldn't know it's there. It doesn't affect the function of the gun in any way, as long as your thumb isn't clamped down on it. The advantages of a striker-fired pistol are not lost, while the holstering advantages of a hammer gun are gained.

How many of you guys who voted "Nay" have handled a Glock with one of these installed? I feel like you haven't, because most of the comments indicate some lack of understanding about what the device is for, what it does, and how it does it.

And, @dmarbell , the SCD is about 0.00001% more likely to cause a malfunction than the stock backplate.

Here's a short video that does a better job of explaining the advantages than LTT's vid above, from a guy that bought his own:

Click to expand...

Thx for the additional education. It’s an interesting concept. Masad Ayoob teaches students to place their finger on the back of the slide when reholstering, a technique that would work hand in hand with this device.
 
NKD said:
Hmmm. I actually do like this idea for certain reasons.
If you are doing lots of heavy practice/training with lots of appendix re-holstering and drawing from concealment.
I see people quickly jamming striker guns into holsters without looking and it makes me cringe.

This is just a little insurance for your johnson. I still get creeped out with appendix re-holstering sometimes. Wouldn't mind this on a practice gun.
Click to expand...

I was thinking Nay for a minute until I clicked on the video and saw him reholstering that smokewagon right above his tallywhacker.

That got me thinking that this might not be such a bad idea.
 
dmarbell said:
Why add a device that could fail and render my gun useless in stressful situations? I'm old and slow. I like the idea of striker guns without safeties so I can draw, or pick up, and start pulling the triggers. In fact, the trigger safeties on striker guns can "fail" if you are under stress and don't get your finger on the triggers correctly. I learned this, for me, by dry firing a Ruger American Pistol and failing a few times to get the correct grip. If you ever get your finger pulling other than straight back on those trigger safeties, the gun won't fire.
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I put a flat trigger shoe on the trigger bar of a Shield 2.0. It was Apex, or Tango Down. Can’t remember who made it. The little safety thingy in the trigger (think Glock) is half way down the trigger shoe. My son’s hands are XL like mine, but with skinny fingers. That trigger works fine for me but it won’t run for him unless he consciously places his finger lower on the trigger.
 
Stobie said:
How many of you guys who voted "Nay" have handled a Glock with one of these installed?
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I voted "nay" without handling or trying one only because I don't see a need for the device. But I'm not gonna try and talk you out of it.
 
Both of my carry G17’s have SCD installed. Mine were from Tau development before Langdon started selling them. I have some from LTT and they’re also great quality. The SCD for me is a must as I carry AIWB and insist on having a mechanism to deactivate the trigger during reholstering. It’s either a Glock with SCD or I carry a TDA like my 92G or P30 so I can ride the hammer during reholstering.

this is the only modification I ever make to a Glock. Everything else is OEM. It’s a passive safety mechanism that completely deactivated the trigger during reholstering. While I rely on my safe practices to ensure safety, I am not opposed to mechanical enhancements that widen the margin for error. Any human who thinks they’re except from error is called a fool. Todd Louis Green wrote a lot on this subject. He was a sharper and more experienced shooter than myself so Id point those with genuine interest to read his writings.

AIWB (Appendix Carry)

(from a series originally begun at firearmstrainingandtactics.com) Because it has become a topic of discussion -- both intelligent and otherwise -- lately, with your indulgence and at the suggestion of one of the FT&T owners, it seemed a thread devoted to AIWB was called for. My personal...
pistol-forum.com
 
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When we shoot IDPA at Buccaneer, Ray gives the pre-shoot instructions, including the club rules. He always adds, "When you unload, show clear, lower the slide, pull the trigger (to show empty) and re-holster, you are not on the clock. Take your time and be safe."
Stobie said:
And, @dmarbell , the SCD is about 0.00001% more likely to cause a malfunction than the stock backplate.
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That's one in 10 million. Glocks coming apart in someone's hands has happened more than one in 10 million times, most likely. I'm not afraid of those odds or I wouldn't shoot P320s, which seemingly fire on their own. This gadget is another complication that I don't feel like I need. If I recall correctly, Glocks have three "safeties" already. However, Massad endorsed them so who am I to say no?

Lots of folks still carry all sorts of handguns without a bullet in the chamber. How safe does anyone want to be?

All manner of smallish, carry pistols are made with safeties. For me, that would be the better option.
 
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If I were going to carry a Glock, which I am not going to do, and did not feel it was safe I would just install a safety and be done with it.
 
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Update: after several dry fire sessions, i am on the fence. In the bottom of my view i can see the back of the plate flapping. Kinda distracting. I have yet to live fire it. I meant to use it in the match yesterday.

MTF

Steve
 
I pocket carry a Glock 43 at work. I never worry about AD. The Glock system is safe and effective. I'm retired from law enforcement. One of my duties was to investigate AD's. Of all cases that I investigated, the weapon was either holstered with the finger on or next to the trigger (holstering the gun forced the trigger finger into the trigger guard causing the AD) or a foreign object caused the AD. To all the LEO"s out there, be careful of draw strings on duty jackets. I had several cases where the officer holstered his weapon and the draw string had found its way into the trigger guard. When the officer sat down in his auto, the draw string pulled the trigger.
 
sgtgeorge said:
be careful of draw strings on duty jackets. I had several cases where the officer holstered his weapon and the draw string had found its way into the trigger guard
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This is a good tip for all of us. I had a near-miss years back and now I cut the drawstrings off all my jackets and sweaters to avoid this situation.
 
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