School me on wood stove inserts

Precision Seeker

Precision Seeker

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Been thinking about getting a wood stove insert for our fireplace. I have a few questions for the gurus on here...

1 - Any recommendations for selection & installation in the Raleigh area?

2 - pros/cons for them

3 - will it be worth it if this is not my forever home? Time frame to recoup?

4 - brands/companies you recommend or I should avoid?

I'm not in a huge hurry. We like the fireplace, but it is obviously inefficient (as most are). Hearth isn't big enough for a free-standing model, hence the insert. Downstairs is ~1000 sq ft. Room with the fireplace is roughly half of that. I plan to use fans to circulate the heat.

We have gas heat, so gas logs could be a possibility. I'm just sort of stuck on a wood stove, unless there's a reason not to be.

I'm all ears and eager to soak up the knowledge.
Thanks in advance!
 
gas logs are no good for heat unless it is a Direct Vent unit. They make 'em as inserts for fireplaces.

don't mess with a wood burning insert unless it is EPA rated. That means you will have to run insulated SS flex up your chimbly to the top, which will cost about as much as the insert.
 
I've got one that I took out to install a wood pellet stove. It came with the house when I bought it, but I used it for a few years before I decided burning wood was a pain in the butt. It has a crack in the front glass, but it doesn't leak or affect the operation. If you want it, come get it. Put some new fire brick in it and it'll be operational.
Joe
 
JoeR said:
I've got one that I took out to install a wood pellet stove.
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If that'n is EPA rated, go for it! A free stove will make it far less painful to install the flex up the chimney.

The best thing the EPA ever did was say to the wood stove industry, Heal Thyself! The result has been drastic improvements in efficiency and huge reductions in particulates.
 
My house came with a fireplace, I tried using it once during an outage and it did very poorly in keeping the place warm. Had a direct vent gas log installed afterwards which worked ten times better. Really do need to get it fixed up again.
 
Precision Seeker said:
3 - will it be worth it if this is not my forever home? Time frame to recoup?
Click to expand...

There is no "recoup" time. Burning wood won't save you money in an area that small; do it because it makes you happy. If you're hoping to save money I'm afraid you're setting yourself up for disappointment unless your current system is very inefficient.
 
Yeah, wood is not going to save money with as cheap as our electric is in NC unless you have a large wood lot and time and strong back. But when the turn it off... it's good for a back up. Ventless logs would give you the best bang for buck and easy enough to move if you do. Also can get you grill plumbed in to the big tank when you get them installed- you can heat and cook when power is out!
 
MacEntyre said:
gas logs are no good for heat unless it is a Direct Vent unit. They make 'em as inserts for fireplaces.

don't mess with a wood burning insert unless it is EPA rated. That means you will have to run insulated SS flex up your chimbly to the top, which will cost about as much as the insert.
Click to expand...

I had never heard of that expense. Thanks for the heads up.
 
My main reasoning has been to have a reliable/more efficient way to heat our living area if we ever lose power. Plus, the wife likes a fire.

If it's really not all it's cracked up to be, I might put my $$ elsewhere.

We had a free-standing stove when I was a kid, and I remember opening the windows in the dead of winter because it was so hot inside. 🤣
 
MacEntyre said:
gas logs are no good for heat unless it is a Direct Vent unit. They make 'em as inserts for fireplaces.

don't mess with a wood burning insert unless it is EPA rated. That means you will have to run insulated SS flex up your chimbly to the top, which will cost about as much as the insert.
Click to expand...
I installed mine, and had a friend help me install the 25’ SS pipe, then insulate it with a vermiculite /porter cement mix. It cost less than $300 to install and insulate.
We chose to use it to supplement the heat pump, instead of paying the $$ for a gas pack.
It’s a 10yo High Valley that’s going strong. I didn’t research them, we got it for a deal when the buyer of my SIL’s house didn’t want it.
highvalleystoves.com

High Valley Stoves

highvalleystoves.com highvalleystoves.com
 
Gas:
Vented logs, virtually no heat production. No electricity
Direct vent logs, similar to above, but incorporate an electric blower to boost performance to acceptable levels.
Vent free gas logs, every btu of energy they produce enters the room, no electricity
Pellet:
Great heat, requires a liner if in the fireplace. Specialized fuel. Requires electricity.
Wood:
Insert, requires a liner or positive connection to the existing flue. Makes it’s best heat with electric blower.
Free stand stove, provides constant radiant heat. Performance can be enhanced by electric blower. Can cook on it. Can be installed in some fireplace arrangements, same connection rules as the insert
 
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JTM35A2 said:
Gas:
Vented logs, virtually no heat production. No electricity
Direct vent logs, similar to above, but incorporate an electric blower to boost performance to acceptable levels.
Vent free gas logs, every btu of energy they produce enters the room, no electricity
Pellet:
Great heat, requires a liner if in the fireplace. Specialized fuel. Requires electricity.
Wood:
Insert, requires a liner or positive connection to the existing flue. Makes it’s best heat with electric blower.
Free stand stove, provides constant radiant heat. Performance can be enhanced by electric blower. Can cook on it. Can be installed in some fireplace arrangements.
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^^This plus, a non electric fan on a free sanding stove.
householdair.com

The 10 Best Wood Stove Fan No Electricity Reviews 2022

Increase the efficiency of your wood stove and warmth by using the best wood stove fan no electricity to disperse heat evenly across the room
householdair.com householdair.com
I'll use the generator to power the fan on the wood stove insert.
 
I have an old insert, non EPA, runs thru wood pretty quick. I have electric heat, burning dramatically reduces the electric bill. Also lets the wife get the house miserably hot, and keeps it warm when the power goes down. Course cutting, splitting, and stacking wood could be a full time occupation.
 
Modern inserts have relatively small fireboxes. Probably 5 x 18” long by 3.5” logs max. But generate burn times in excess of 8 hours from that small loading.
 
Since you're making it sound like a temporary house. Go with a free standing unit. Build a small platform in front of the hearth with a hearth stone or plate under the free standing unit and then run triple wall pipe up and out of the existing chimney. There's several companies that make a chimney cap the passes through standard 6 or 8 inch heater pipe through the cap. You can use a standard 45 degree with a cleanout plate inside the chimney to make clean out easy. The neatest installs I've seen for framing for the pipe was just simple black gas pipe welded up into 12 or so foot sections that used some larger pipe as slip fits for the frame. You lower first section into chimney until it's just barely sticking out, slip on the next section and lower it on in. May need to rig up a temp pulley since it sounds like you have a 2 story chimney so will be 30 ft or so and will be lowering 200 lbs or so down the chimney at that point. But, everything is removeable, doesn't alter value of the house and gives you the result you want.

I totally disagree with the people who say you can't save money using wood heat versus electric. If you're paying $200 a truck load for someone to bring to you, no, you're not going to save. If you have access to standing dead or fallen timber to harvest for wood and you're of decent health then yeah, you can save a lot over time. Go with a simple sturdy box style stove Wonderluxe or something like that, make sure it has intake air flow adjustments on both the main door and ash pan door so you can fine tune airflow into it. Electric variable speed fan on it to get the most heat from the unit and good piping. Install a couple ceiling fans which is going to help with both heating as well as lowering cooling costs and you're good to go.

Even if it's not your 24x7 primary source of heat for the whole house and you're running space heater or multi zone hvac in bedrooms you still can provide the bulk of the heat for the biggest part of the house cutting into that heating bill significantly. I know a lot of people that load up a wood stove before bed, lower the thermostat and let the stove burn at night and let their hvac take care of maintaining temps during the warmer part of the day while they're away from home.

But you asked break even cost.. depends on what you're paying now.. stove is going to be 2-3k, piping another 1k, decent chainsaw, spare blades, sharpening tools, wedges, couple axes, couple malls another 1k. Decent log splitter is going to run you 3-5k, do you have a way to haul? truck, trailer.. it adds up. Just have to do the math in your particular situation to see if/when it evens out and when you start to save. I know in my parents case they saved money the first year we put one in when I was a child, but the pickup truck, chainsaws and free child labor was already built in from living on a farm place. Got a buddy with the equipment? See about a "how about I help you and pay for gas and we work up one load for you, one for me deal?". Maybe cheaper way to get started.
 
TLDR


I bought a second hand FP insert three years ago and love it.

I just ran black pipe up the existing chimney. Don’t put a cap on the too leave it off. Haven’t had any issues .

I guess it’s EPA approved.

I cut a pc of metal and capped off the chimney right above the insert I’ll post pics tomorrow

I don’t have a large house it’s only 1850sf but it keeps it around 70 on the north end of the house
 
Darkhorse said:
I just ran black pipe up the existing chimney.
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Any wood stove, modern or not, will benefit from having a constant diameter exhaust all the way to the top of the chimbly. If it is insulated, it works even better.

Darkhorse said:
I guess it’s EPA approved.
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I bet it isn't... you would know if it were. Does yours have a bypass lever?

Modern efficient wood burners have a catalyst, and a bypass that sends the smoke around the catalyst on startup. If you close the bypass before the stove gets to 300 degF, you will quickly plug up the catalyst; then the stove will only operate with the bypass open. Most stoves require the catalyst to be cleaned two or three times during the winter, when used regularly.
 
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This is the 12th heating season since I installed my wood stove. I think it's the single best modification I have done to my house. I am sure others would have opinions about brands, but you can't go wrong with Vermont Castings or Jotul. I have a Jotul CB 500 Oslo. While I am very happy with my stove, I understand having a wood stove is not for everyone. It is important to honestly and fully consider the intended usage and the commitment it takes to really use a wood stove. Some people like the occasional fire for ambiance in the house, or when power goes out. In my view, it is not economically viable to install a top of the line wood stove for such occasional usage. This type of user would be better served with gas logs, a standard fire place, or some cheaper stove. I have a central heating system, but my woodstove is my primary source of heat. My stove will often go several weeks at a time without cooling down, and the central HVAC system rarely comes on. I will typically load the stove before bed and it will generally still be producing heat in the morning if I loaded it heavy with good seasoned hardwood. Sometimes, I may wake up to use the bathroom and throw a few pieces in it if it's down to just coals. Someone mentioned costs. I know a lot of people with electric as their only heat source and their heating bills are often a few hundred dollars above what a normal bill would be. So with this in mind, even if someone were purchasing a pickup load of split wood for 200 dollars, they would be breaking even in my opinion. I do not believe I have ever burned an entire pickup load in a month and this is keeping it stoked 24-7. These higher end stoves are VERY efficient. 5 pieces of wood in a fireplace may be down to coals in an hour, but the same pieces would last 8-10 in my stove. It's an astounding difference in consumption and the heat it radiates into the space instead of going up the chimney is really incomparable. The newer stoves are way better than the stoves we grew up with. I helped my father install a Jotul he found at habitat for humanity about 3 seasons ago. His wood consumption is half of what his old stove was using! So far as purchasing wood goes, I have never had to do so yet. I would if necessary, but there is always someone who is taking down a tree in my neighborhood, giving some away on craigslist, etc. If you are healthy enough to do it, you can always find free wood in this state. It's best to have the obvious tools- chainsaw, pickup, splitter etc, but these things can be purchased used and over time. Most oak is not that bad to split with a splitting maul, and from start to finish all of the work is great exercise. I have a 12x12 woodshed that will provide 3-4 winters worth of wood at my typical usage rates. Anyone considering heating with wood would benefit by learning all they can about it and hearth.com is a great resource for information.
 
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I have a 1992 EPA certified Vermont Castings Defiant stove in the shop, and a 2022 EPA certified Hearthstone Green Mountain 40 in the home. They have nearly identical Class A chimneys (no masonry, all stove pipe). They are an interesting pair to compare. The VC is easy to start, heats up fast and will burn anything. The Hearthstone is finicky about starting, slow to heat up and does best with almost perfect firewood, but once it is on the catalyst, it is incredibly efficient. Both have long burn times, and stay hot with nothing but coals far longer than you would think. It is usually best to wait until just before the coals start cooling down to add logs again.

We will build a little guest house cabin at Trouble Ranch one day. I have a Made in Greensboro wood burning Glastonbury kitchen stove with oven that will go in that cabin. I am the second owner. The fellow who sold it to me was born in the cabin it came out of, and his momma cooked on that stove. It's probably a hundred years old. I can't wait to start using it!

I second the idea that it is not cost effective to use a wood stove infrequently. The chimney costs as much as the stove, in most instances. Keeping the fire going has to become part of your day. Cutting and splitting wood has to be a year 'round chore. Today, even though I am a wee bit under the weather, I had to get wood stacked on the porch for the next week, because it will rain tomorrow.

I second the suggestion of using Hearth.com. I got detailed instructions on how to restore my Vermont Castings Defiant stove from Hearth.com, as well as some information from users about the Hearthstone being finicky on starting.
 
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