Second Amendment A Collective Right

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Rogue One
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"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Many authoritarians spread a collective rights theory of the Second Amendment which is a belief that citizens do not have an individual right to possess arms, that local, state, and federal legislative bodies possess the authority to regulate firearms without implicating a constitutional right. They point to the language "a well regulated Militia" to argue that the founders intended to only restrict congress from legislating away the state's right to self-defense.

I'll keep this short and sweet. Those who spread the collective rights theory are wrong, and only use this construed interpretation as a tool to violate the rights of the people in order to gain power and institute their preferred brand of authoritarianism, instead of being for true classical liberalism. Our founders didn't like a large standing Army. They knew it was in the people's interest to be able to form a militia in times of need, be it for protection of foreign invasion, or the more than likely scenario of protection from a corrupt government.

There is confusion with the term a “well regulated militia”. Our founders believed that a militia is formed by individual volunteers. In order to form a militia, individuals must posses the right to bear arms. The term "well regulated" in the time of our founders meant properly functioning. For example, the clock was well regulated, meaning the clock was precise and properly functioning. So in order to have a well regulated, (properly functioning militia), it is “the right of the people”, (this asserts an individual right), “to keep and bear arms”. For any militia to function properly, be "well regulated", it must have arms. “The security of a free state”, is protected by individuals, “the people”, who form a “well regulated militia”. We the individuals are the militia. The collective theory which they use to say the state has the right to regulate firearms for individual purposes, because they say the second amendment refers to it being a collective right, ( the states right to a militia) when it says a “well regulated militia', supposedly meaning only the government has the right to arms, is not of a “free state” that itself is mentioned in the amendment, as in a "free state" one has individual rights, not collectivism where government regulates our rights. Their intentional misinterpretation is asinine. Our founders were not communists. It's clear the purpose was as an individual right, as it should be, based on natural rights.

Rogue_One
 
For anyone who doubts this definition of "well-regulated," just point them to the "regulator clock." The swinging pendulum is the "regulator" in a weight-driven clock, which ensures that it functions properly (keeps accurate time). Use of this term predates the Revolution.
 
Thank you for the education on the "regulated" term. I appreciate it.
 
Additionally, proponents of the collective rights theory deliberately overlook several points, any one of which is fatal to their argument.

The militia consists of the whole body of people capable of bearing arms. Those paid to carry a government gun were referred to as the standing army.

When Major Pitcairn marched out of Boston to seize the arms at Concord, those colonists didn't just have muskets, they also had artillery (crew-served weapons) equal in every respect to those in the King's arsenal. Some of those artillery pieces came into the militia arsenal having been "liberated" (at the point of a bayonet attached to the assault weapon of the day) from the King's forts.

When my wife took her naturalization test, one question was, "What issue sparked the War for Independence?" The "correct" answer according to the book was Taxes. Wrong. It was a stinking gun confiscation raid.

Another question was, "What type of government was established by our Constitution?" The "correct" answer was, "A democracy." Wrong again. A representative republic was established.

The root of our division isn't an honest difference of opinion among reasonable people, nor is it a reasonable difference of opinion among honest people. It is because our enemies are statist liars that are actively instigating the government to murder those who will not live the way they want to make us live.
 
In pretty much ever other clause in the constitution at least in every one that refers to them, the rights are expressly being stated as belonging to the people, yet were supposed to believe that the 2nd is different and thst it was meant as a collective? I don't think so.
 
SPM posted a great article on the 2nd Amendment many days ago on a forum far, far away.

SPM, can you repost that here?
 
I imagine King's Mtn was on the minds of the folks writing these things at the time. When folks want to go all "militia is a state thing, the people can't pull that off" I usually refer them to the Over Mtn Men. The turning point of the war was pissed off citizens with their own gun, their own ammo, their own powder, their own food; and a determination to pay back Ferguson for his insults. They walk from East Tenn to put him in the ground on King's Mtn.
 
DurhamDad;n38084 said:
SPM posted a great article on the 2nd Amendment many days ago on a forum far, far away.

SPM, can you repost that here?

I can do that. Let me see if I have it on the iPad or if I need to send it to myself from the work computer in the morning.
 
Howland;n38027 said:
Additionally, proponents of the collective rights theory deliberately overlook several points, any one of which is fatal to their argument.

The militia consists of the whole body of people capable of bearing arms. Those paid to carry a government gun were referred to as the standing army.

When Major Pitcairn marched out of Boston to seize the arms at Concord, those colonists didn't just have muskets, they also had artillery (crew-served weapons) equal in every respect to those in the King's arsenal. Some of those artillery pieces came into the militia arsenal having been "liberated" (at the point of a bayonet attached to the assault weapon of the day) from the King's forts.

I love pointing that out when they cry about "military weapons"... the people who wrote the framing documents literally (privately) owned weapons of war. And if they could have obtained greater firepower they would have.
 
WeepingAngel;n39096 said:
I love pointing that out when they cry about "military weapons"... the people who wrote the framing documents literally (privately) owned weapons of war. And if they could have obtained greater firepower they would have.

Privateers were used by the Navy extensively in the Rev war. Private merchant ships armed by their owners. Plantation owners had cannons as well.

The first fully automatic weapon used by the US military in war was privately owned. Roosevelt's Rough Riders had a "potato digger" machine gun that was bought by a family member and sent with them to war. FYI, the Rough Riders were a militia. They were not military. They volunteered as a group and armed themselves with their own guns and horses.
 
Rogue_One;n37248 said:
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Many authoritarians spread a collective rights theory of the Second Amendment which is a belief that citizens do not have an individual right to possess arms, that local, state, and federal legislative bodies possess the authority to regulate firearms without implicating a constitutional right. They point to the language "a well regulated Militia" to argue that the founders intended to only restrict congress from legislating away the state's right to self-defense.

I'll keep this short and sweet. Those who spread the collective rights theory are wrong, and only use this construed interpretation as a tool to violate the rights of the people in order to gain power and institute their preferred brand of authoritarianism, instead of being for true classical liberalism. Our founders didn't like a large standing Army. They knew it was in the people's interest to be able to form a militia in times of need, be it for protection of foreign invasion, or the more than likely scenario of protection from a corrupt government.

There is confusion with the term a “well regulated militia”. Our founders believed that a militia is formed by individual volunteers. In order to form a militia, individuals must posses the right to bear arms. The term "well regulated" in the time of our founders meant properly functioning. For example, the clock was well regulated, meaning the clock was precise and properly functioning. So in order to have a well regulated, (properly functioning militia), it is “the right of the people”, (this asserts an individual right), “to keep and bear arms”. For any militia to function properly, be "well regulated", it must have arms. “The security of a free state”, is protected by individuals, “the people”, who form a “well regulated militia”. We the individuals are the militia. The collective theory which they use to say the state has the right to regulate firearms for individual purposes, because they say the second amendment refers to it being a collective right, ( the states right to a militia) when it says a “well regulated militia', supposedly meaning only the government has the right to arms, is not of a “free state” that itself is mentioned in the amendment, as in a "free state" one has individual rights, not collectivism where government regulates our rights. Their intentional misinterpretation is asinine. Our founders were not communists. It's clear the purpose was as an individual right, as it should be, based on natural rights.

Rogue_One

What you are saying mirrors Scalia's opinion in DC vs Heller fairly well.
 
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